Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[seanfingh]

 

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

[Jaydogrules]

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

 

Touche! I think that's in line with the OP's original point too; that "only in Overstreet" and by Overstreet's particular criterion could such a result be reached. The only thing that should probably really be debated is the validity and completeness of the criterion itself, not the merits of each individual book.

 

-J.

[lou_fine]

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale)

 

Have you even looked at the guide as this IS exactly what Overstreet does....lower percentages for Cerebus 1 as it goes down the grading scale. Maybe OS is not so out of touch with the real world after all.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Now if all known sales of Cerebus 1 in comparable grades above 9.0 have sold for more than Hulk 181's in the exact same grade, then why is it wrong for Overstreet to reflect this fact in his guide?

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade.

 

I assume this means that since we have had only less than a handful of Action 1 sales above 8.0 versus the thousands of sales of Hulk 181 above 8.0, it would only make sense that Hulk 181 is more valuable than Action 1 if we are to use your line of thinking.

 

 

How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

I believe Overstreet did not conveniently use this top of guide valuation comparison for the sole purpose of singling out Cerebus 1 as compared to Hulk 181. I know you would find this very hard to believe, but Overstreet has been using this top of guide valuation for his Top 10 / 20 / 100 charts for decades and even before there was a Hulk 181. If you want to compare relative values for other grades, it is a simple matter of flipping to the appropriate listing for each book.

 

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

I totally agree with you on this one 100%! (thumbs u

[PeterPark]

99%, huh...?

 

 

I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies.

 

It is the granddaddy of all independent books.

 

I agree. If anyone wants to sell me their high grade non-key Cerebus 1, please let me know.

 

IH 181 I have and can get more copies of whenever I want. Cerebus 1, not so much.

 

And all the money in the world won't conjur up a 9.8, if none truly exist in that grade.

 

A shame, too. Sim's file copies yielded many ultra high grade early copies...but no #1s above 9.4.

 

If....IF...a 9.8 Cerebus #1 showed up, I don't think $30-$40K would be out of the question.

 

....and in the real world the one single sale of that one single book in that one single grade STILL would not make cerebus more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

Only in fantasy land, where documented sales figures don't matter.

 

 

It's easily possible that...you know, actually comparing grade for grade...that a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would sell for more than Hulk #181 in 9.8 ever has.

 

Your real issue is that Overstreet didn't do a "most popular" list, which is what you want. The OPG is a price guide, not a popularity guide. Their job is to report prices, not rank characters according to popularity.

 

Wanting the OPG to do a popularity list isn't rational.

 

Untrue. And yet you want to use a hypothetical "single highest graded" copy of cerebus 1 to rationalize its misguided positioning on overstreet's flawed list but ignore the real world sale of hulk 181's "single highest graded" copy for $150k, which was four years ago, and could just as likely be over $200k if it happened today. Makes no sense.

 

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale) even though there are literally only 6 blue label copies graded higher, while there are hundreds and hundreds hulk 181's graded higher.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade. How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

So yes, in the land of Overstreet at least, cerebus 1 is a mega key that's more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

But in the real world it's a small niche indy book from the 70's with a low print run, and few high grade copies on the census that get a few specialty book collectors excited when they come to market.

 

Definitely not in hulk 181's league, "value"-wise or otherwise, but certainly in a league of its own.

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

-J.

 

 

 

If you think that price variants are overvalued, sell them to me cheap

 

There are many price variants that will for a lot more than Cerebus 1 or Hulk 181 in lower grades. However, the price variant market doesn't usually go outlandish multiples for single highest graded...

 

Although, I bet a 9.8 Star Wars 1 35 cent would fetch quite a bit...

 

All that said, they are bronze age comics too so no reason why they shouldn't be there.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The only person using a "straw man" argument here is the guy who's using selective data points-- in this case, the exactly three copies of Cerebus 1 that exist in 9.2-- to the exclusion of all other data points that exist in the real world and not only within the pages of Overstreet -- to achieve and believe in a particular result.

 

-J.

 

That's not what "straw-man argument" means.

 

Your argument is not reasonable. I have exhaustively demonstrated why. "All other data points" aren't relevant to this discussion, because the discussion is not about, and never has been, the comparative values of Cerebus #1 to Hulk #181 throughout all grades...and no one disputes your claims in this regard.

 

I didn't achieve, and don't need to believe in, a particular result. The data plainly speaks for itself, with no need for my opinion on the matter. It is not "selective" simply by virtue of being sparse. SELECTIVE data means that data relevant to the premise isn't included. The value of 7.5/6.0/2.5/8.5 Hulk #1 vs. Cerebus #1 isn't relevant to this discussion, because it's not Overstreet's premise.

 

Come on, jaydog, it's been fun, but you really can't be serious with some of these arguments.

 

:shrug:

 

The position is very simple: in the highest grade the OPG uses (9.2), Cerebus #1 is worth more money than Hulk #181, in the same grade. These are the parameters the OPG sets.

 

More importantly, the sales data...regardless of how sparse it is (remember, you keep bringing up the single 9.9 Hulk #181 as part of this argument)...supports Overstreet's opinion.

 

Overstreet makes no claims as to values in lower grades. That is not Overstreet's goal. Nor does the exclusion of such information warrant speculation about OPG's relevance or accusations about Overstreet's motives.

 

If YOU want to publish a competing list that includes all grades, there's nothing stopping you. I told you I was waiting for it earlier, and I still am...yet...nothing so far.

 

I would happily welcome such research and data.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

 

Touche! I think that's in line with the OP's original point too; that "only in Overstreet" and by Overstreet's particular criterion could such a result be reached.

 

No.

[bronze johnny]

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

 

Touche! I think that's in line with the OP's original point too; that "only in Overstreet" and by Overstreet's particular criterion could such a result be reached.

 

No.

 

Yes.

[RockMyAmadeus]

How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

I believe Overstreet did not conveniently use this top of guide valuation comparison for the sole purpose of singling out Cerebus 1 as compared to Hulk 181. I know you would find this very hard to believe, but Overstreet has been using this top of guide valuation for his Top 10 / 20 / 100 charts for decades and even before there was a Hulk 181. If you want to compare relative values for other grades, it is a simple matter of flipping to the appropriate listing for each book.

 

This too.

 

To suggest that Overstreet is conspiratorily "selecting data (to the express exclusion of other data, despite that other data being readily available elsewhere in the book)" to "advance an idea" that Cerebus #1 is "more important" than Hulk #181 is simply not rational.

 

It's simply not a rational position to take.

 

We must use our reason, gentlemen.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

 

Touche! I think that's in line with the OP's original point too; that "only in Overstreet" and by Overstreet's particular criterion could such a result be reached.

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

The facts dispute you. What else can be said?

[Jaydogrules]

99%, huh...?

 

 

I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies.

 

It is the granddaddy of all independent books.

 

I agree. If anyone wants to sell me their high grade non-key Cerebus 1, please let me know.

 

IH 181 I have and can get more copies of whenever I want. Cerebus 1, not so much.

 

And all the money in the world won't conjur up a 9.8, if none truly exist in that grade.

 

A shame, too. Sim's file copies yielded many ultra high grade early copies...but no #1s above 9.4.

 

If....IF...a 9.8 Cerebus #1 showed up, I don't think $30-$40K would be out of the question.

 

....and in the real world the one single sale of that one single book in that one single grade STILL would not make cerebus more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

Only in fantasy land, where documented sales figures don't matter.

 

 

It's easily possible that...you know, actually comparing grade for grade...that a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would sell for more than Hulk #181 in 9.8 ever has.

 

Your real issue is that Overstreet didn't do a "most popular" list, which is what you want. The OPG is a price guide, not a popularity guide. Their job is to report prices, not rank characters according to popularity.

 

Wanting the OPG to do a popularity list isn't rational.

 

Untrue. And yet you want to use a hypothetical "single highest graded" copy of cerebus 1 to rationalize its misguided positioning on overstreet's flawed list but ignore the real world sale of hulk 181's "single highest graded" copy for $150k, which was four years ago, and could just as likely be over $200k if it happened today. Makes no sense.

 

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale) even though there are literally only 6 blue label copies graded higher, while there are hundreds and hundreds hulk 181's graded higher.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade. How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

So yes, in the land of Overstreet at least, cerebus 1 is a mega key that's more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

But in the real world it's a small niche indy book from the 70's with a low print run, and few high grade copies on the census that get a few specialty book collectors excited when they come to market.

 

Definitely not in hulk 181's league, "value"-wise or otherwise, but certainly in a league of its own.

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

-J.

 

 

 

If you think that price variants are overvalued, sell them to me cheap

 

There are many price variants that will for a lot more than Cerebus 1 or Hulk 181 in lower grades. However, the price variant market doesn't usually go outlandish multiples for single highest graded...

 

Although, I bet a 9.8 Star Wars 1 35 cent would fetch quite a bit...

 

All that said, they are bronze age comics too so no reason why they shouldn't be there.

 

Because it is substantively identical to the regular issue and (as with cerebus 1) the sampling size/sales data is far too small to make an accurate or adequate apples to apples comparison.

 

-J.

[THB]

I think Jdog needs to work out why the highest graded copy of Hulk # 181 reached those heights? Perhaps it was shilled?

[RockMyAmadeus]

99%, huh...?

 

 

I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies.

 

It is the granddaddy of all independent books.

 

I agree. If anyone wants to sell me their high grade non-key Cerebus 1, please let me know.

 

IH 181 I have and can get more copies of whenever I want. Cerebus 1, not so much.

 

And all the money in the world won't conjur up a 9.8, if none truly exist in that grade.

 

A shame, too. Sim's file copies yielded many ultra high grade early copies...but no #1s above 9.4.

 

If....IF...a 9.8 Cerebus #1 showed up, I don't think $30-$40K would be out of the question.

 

....and in the real world the one single sale of that one single book in that one single grade STILL would not make cerebus more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

Only in fantasy land, where documented sales figures don't matter.

 

 

It's easily possible that...you know, actually comparing grade for grade...that a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would sell for more than Hulk #181 in 9.8 ever has.

 

Your real issue is that Overstreet didn't do a "most popular" list, which is what you want. The OPG is a price guide, not a popularity guide. Their job is to report prices, not rank characters according to popularity.

 

Wanting the OPG to do a popularity list isn't rational.

 

Untrue. And yet you want to use a hypothetical "single highest graded" copy of cerebus 1 to rationalize its misguided positioning on overstreet's flawed list but ignore the real world sale of hulk 181's "single highest graded" copy for $150k, which was four years ago, and could just as likely be over $200k if it happened today. Makes no sense.

 

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale) even though there are literally only 6 blue label copies graded higher, while there are hundreds and hundreds hulk 181's graded higher.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade. How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

So yes, in the land of Overstreet at least, cerebus 1 is a mega key that's more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

But in the real world it's a small niche indy book from the 70's with a low print run, and few high grade copies on the census that get a few specialty book collectors excited when they come to market.

 

Definitely not in hulk 181's league, "value"-wise or otherwise, but certainly in a league of its own.

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

-J.

 

 

 

If you think that price variants are overvalued, sell them to me cheap

 

There are many price variants that will for a lot more than Cerebus 1 or Hulk 181 in lower grades. However, the price variant market doesn't usually go outlandish multiples for single highest graded...

 

Although, I bet a 9.8 Star Wars 1 35 cent would fetch quite a bit...

 

All that said, they are bronze age comics too so no reason why they shouldn't be there.

 

Because it is substantively identical to the regular issue and (as with cerebus 1) the sampling size/sales data is far too small to make an accurate or adequate apples to apples comparison.

 

-J.

 

It's not an opinion poll, which requires a sampling of a certain size to draw a reasonable idea of what the average person believes.

 

As you, yourself, have stated repeatedly with your Hulk #181 9.9 example, a single sale is sufficient to establish a fact, if not necessarily a fact pattern.

 

Thankfully, in the case of Cerebus #1, we have multiple data points in the 9.2+ grades to demonstrate a fact pattern.

[bronze johnny]

But it is Bob's book, and he can do what he wants, right?

 

I think the Hulk 181 position is valid, but you had to change the rules to make the argument.

 

Touche! I think that's in line with the OP's original point too; that "only in Overstreet" and by Overstreet's particular criterion could such a result be reached.

 

No.

 

Yes.

 

The facts dispute you. What else can be said?

 

Always love a person who makes his own interpretation out to be facts. And I especially find it funny when a person reads his own view into my writings. You are batting 1000.

 

Really, do you own a copy of Cerebus 1? I can understand and appreciate your passion for the book. But your textual interpretation of the OSPG, while a noble way of looking at it, is not exclusive. There's nothing wrong or illogical with looking at other factors beyond the text itself. I see you disagree with that and your opinion has been noted. So please, stop trying to impress upon all of us here that you're the great defender of reason and logic. You made your point that you disagree with the position that some of us find credible.

[Jaydogrules]

99%, huh...?

 

 

I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies.

 

It is the granddaddy of all independent books.

 

I agree. If anyone wants to sell me their high grade non-key Cerebus 1, please let me know.

 

IH 181 I have and can get more copies of whenever I want. Cerebus 1, not so much.

 

And all the money in the world won't conjur up a 9.8, if none truly exist in that grade.

 

A shame, too. Sim's file copies yielded many ultra high grade early copies...but no #1s above 9.4.

 

If....IF...a 9.8 Cerebus #1 showed up, I don't think $30-$40K would be out of the question.

 

....and in the real world the one single sale of that one single book in that one single grade STILL would not make cerebus more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

Only in fantasy land, where documented sales figures don't matter.

 

 

It's easily possible that...you know, actually comparing grade for grade...that a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would sell for more than Hulk #181 in 9.8 ever has.

 

Your real issue is that Overstreet didn't do a "most popular" list, which is what you want. The OPG is a price guide, not a popularity guide. Their job is to report prices, not rank characters according to popularity.

 

Wanting the OPG to do a popularity list isn't rational.

 

Untrue. And yet you want to use a hypothetical "single highest graded" copy of cerebus 1 to rationalize its misguided positioning on overstreet's flawed list but ignore the real world sale of hulk 181's "single highest graded" copy for $150k, which was four years ago, and could just as likely be over $200k if it happened today. Makes no sense.

 

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale) even though there are literally only 6 blue label copies graded higher, while there are hundreds and hundreds hulk 181's graded higher.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade. How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

So yes, in the land of Overstreet at least, cerebus 1 is a mega key that's more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

But in the real world it's a small niche indy book from the 70's with a low print run, and few high grade copies on the census that get a few specialty book collectors excited when they come to market.

 

Definitely not in hulk 181's league, "value"-wise or otherwise, but certainly in a league of its own.

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

-J.

 

 

 

If you think that price variants are overvalued, sell them to me cheap

 

There are many price variants that will for a lot more than Cerebus 1 or Hulk 181 in lower grades. However, the price variant market doesn't usually go outlandish multiples for single highest graded...

 

Although, I bet a 9.8 Star Wars 1 35 cent would fetch quite a bit...

 

All that said, they are bronze age comics too so no reason why they shouldn't be there.

 

Because it is substantively identical to the regular issue and (as with cerebus 1) the sampling size/sales data is far too small to make an accurate or adequate apples to apples comparison.

 

-J.

 

It's not an opinion poll, which requires a sampling of a certain size to draw a reasonable idea of what the average person believes.

 

As you, yourself, have stated repeatedly with your Hulk #181 9.9 example, a single sale is sufficient to establish a fact, if not necessarily a fact pattern.

 

Thankfully, in the case of Cerebus #1, we have multiple data points in the 9.2+ grades to demonstrate a fact pattern.

 

So why is it perfectly fine for you that the one or two sales of a cerebus 1 in a 9.2 is sufficient to establish all time most valuable BA comic status for that, yet the 9.9 hulk 181 sale is just a random outlier that should be thrown out? (Not shilled by the way, it was a comic link sale, the buyers paid and it sits comfortably in their collection, no I was not the buyer).

 

Nobody is saying that cerebus 1 in a 9.2 hasn't sold more for a hulk 181 in the same grade once or twice.

 

The entire point of this thread was to point out the ridiculousness of Overstreet for ranking it above hulk 181 based solely on those one or two sales. And it's a valid point/flaw in Overstreet's methodology, whether you choose to acknowledge such or not.

 

-J.

[PeterPark]

99%, huh...?

 

 

I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies.

 

It is the granddaddy of all independent books.

 

I agree. If anyone wants to sell me their high grade non-key Cerebus 1, please let me know.

 

IH 181 I have and can get more copies of whenever I want. Cerebus 1, not so much.

 

And all the money in the world won't conjur up a 9.8, if none truly exist in that grade.

 

A shame, too. Sim's file copies yielded many ultra high grade early copies...but no #1s above 9.4.

 

If....IF...a 9.8 Cerebus #1 showed up, I don't think $30-$40K would be out of the question.

 

....and in the real world the one single sale of that one single book in that one single grade STILL would not make cerebus more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

Only in fantasy land, where documented sales figures don't matter.

 

 

It's easily possible that...you know, actually comparing grade for grade...that a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would sell for more than Hulk #181 in 9.8 ever has.

 

Your real issue is that Overstreet didn't do a "most popular" list, which is what you want. The OPG is a price guide, not a popularity guide. Their job is to report prices, not rank characters according to popularity.

 

Wanting the OPG to do a popularity list isn't rational.

 

Untrue. And yet you want to use a hypothetical "single highest graded" copy of cerebus 1 to rationalize its misguided positioning on overstreet's flawed list but ignore the real world sale of hulk 181's "single highest graded" copy for $150k, which was four years ago, and could just as likely be over $200k if it happened today. Makes no sense.

 

Nor does it make sense that you disregard the fact that cerebus sells at about one-half hulk 181 does in an 8.5, (and even lower percentages on down the grading scale) even though there are literally only 6 blue label copies graded higher, while there are hundreds and hundreds hulk 181's graded higher.

 

Nor does it make sense that Overstreet (and you apparently) think that the same 5 or 6 copies of cerebus 1 that have exchanged hands over the last 15 years or so over a 9.0 grade, are in any way, shape or form an appropriate way to determine the actual "value" of the book as compared to the thousands of sales of hulk 181 that have occurred over the same amount of time.

 

Nor does it make sense that you could possibly believe this book is more "valuable" than hulk 181 in real life simply because those five or six highest graded examples of cerebus 1 in a whopping two grade and one or two sale comparison have sold for more than hulk 181's in comparable grade. How convenient it is for cerebus 1 that Overstreet has decided to compare books in that one grade that he does.

 

So yes, in the land of Overstreet at least, cerebus 1 is a mega key that's more "valuable" than hulk 181.

 

But in the real world it's a small niche indy book from the 70's with a low print run, and few high grade copies on the census that get a few specialty book collectors excited when they come to market.

 

Definitely not in hulk 181's league, "value"-wise or otherwise, but certainly in a league of its own.

 

And no, "price variant" books shouldn't be on that list either.

 

-J.

 

 

 

If you think that price variants are overvalued, sell them to me cheap

 

There are many price variants that will for a lot more than Cerebus 1 or Hulk 181 in lower grades. However, the price variant market doesn't usually go outlandish multiples for single highest graded...

 

Although, I bet a 9.8 Star Wars 1 35 cent would fetch quite a bit...

 

All that said, they are bronze age comics too so no reason why they shouldn't be there.

 

Because it is substantively identical to the regular issue and (as with cerebus 1) the sampling size/sales data is far too small to make an accurate or adequate apples to apples comparison.

 

-J.

 

I thought we were talking about value.

 

In terms of sales data for 35 cent variants, the most valuable do not have enough samples to make the list.

 

Star Wars 1 and Iron Fist 14, however, are far more common and sales data on these books across grades is readily available, hence their inclusion in Overstreet's top 10 most valuable bronze age comics.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The facts dispute you. What else can be said?

 

Always love a person who makes his own interpretation out to be facts.

 

Facts:

 

Cerebus #1 sales, as recorded at GPA...

 

( 9.4 ) - - (1) $9,000 - $9,000 Mar-2014

 

( 9.4 ) Sgnt series/Signed by Dave Sim (Dave Sim File Copy) - - - - $7,768 Feb-2010

 

2009

 

(1) $7,754Hi

 

2004

 

(1) $10,600Hi

 

Total books sold: 3. Hi/Low price recorded: $10,600/$7,754

 

( 9.2 ) Sgnt series/Signed by Dave Sim (Dave Sim File Copy) - - - - $2,136 Nov-2005

 

These are facts, established and recorded. Do you dispute these facts? Because these are the facts to which I refer, not my opinion.

 

And I especially find it funny when a person reads his own view into my writings. You are batting 1000.

 

Please try not to be so easily offended, and ask before assuming an incorrect interpretation of what someone else has written. My "no" was not about Jaydog's understanding of your original post, but rather that it is "only in Overstreet" that such a conclusion can be reached.

 

My apologies for not cutting out the phrase " I think that's in line with the OP's original point too;" which led to your misunderstanding my post.

 

Really, do you own a copy of Cerebus 1? I can understand and appreciate your passion for the book.

 

You make the mistake of assuming I am arguing out of passion...perhaps because that is all you know? I do not argue out of passion, but out of reason, regardless of my personal feelings about both books.

 

But your textual interpretation of the OSPG, while a noble way of looking at it, is not exclusive. There's nothing wrong or illogical with looking at other factors beyond the text itself.

 

When you change the parameters of the original premise, and then use that to argue that the original premise is therefore wrong, that's irrational.

 

That's precisely what has happened here.

 

I see you disagree with that and your opinion has been noted. So please, stop trying to impress upon all of us here that you're the great defender of reason and logic. You made your point that you disagree with the position that some of us find credible.

 

I'm sorry that you are offended by this, but that doesn't change the fact that your position...that Cerebus #1 is only more valuable according to Overstreet, and that itself is an unreasonable conclusion for Overstreet to draw...is invalid.

[Jaydogrules]

 

The facts dispute you. What else can be said?

 

Always love a person who makes his own interpretation out to be facts.

 

Facts:

 

Cerebus #1 sales, as recorded at GPA...

 

( 9.4 ) - - (1) $9,000 - $9,000 Mar-2014

 

( 9.4 ) Sgnt series/Signed by Dave Sim (Dave Sim File Copy) - - - - $7,768 Feb-2010

 

2009

 

(1) $7,754Hi

 

2004

 

(1) $10,600Hi

 

Total books sold: 3. Hi/Low price recorded: $10,600/$7,754

 

( 9.2 ) Sgnt series/Signed by Dave Sim (Dave Sim File Copy) - - - - $2,136 Nov-2005

 

These are facts, established and recorded. Do you dispute these facts? Because these are the facts to which I refer, not my opinion.

 

And I especially find it funny when a person reads his own view into my writings. You are batting 1000.

 

Please try not to be so easily offended, and ask before assuming an incorrect interpretation of what someone else has written. My "no" was not about Jaydog's understanding of your original post, but rather that it is "only in Overstreet" that such a conclusion can be reached.

 

My apologies for not cutting out the phrase " I think that's in line with the OP's original point too;" which led to your misunderstanding my post.

 

Really, do you own a copy of Cerebus 1? I can understand and appreciate your passion for the book.

 

You make the mistake of assuming I am arguing out of passion...perhaps because that is all you know? I do not argue out of passion, but out of reason, regardless of my personal feelings about both books.

 

But your textual interpretation of the OSPG, while a noble way of looking at it, is not exclusive. There's nothing wrong or illogical with looking at other factors beyond the text itself.

 

When you change the parameters of the original premise, and then use that to argue that the original premise is therefore wrong, that's irrational.

 

That's precisely what has happened here.

 

I see you disagree with that and your opinion has been noted. So please, stop trying to impress upon all of us here that you're the great defender of reason and logic. You made your point that you disagree with the position that some of us find credible.

 

I'm sorry that you are offended by this, but that doesn't change the fact that your position...that Cerebus #1 is only more valuable according to Overstreet, and that itself is an unreasonable conclusion for Overstreet to draw...is invalid.

 

Five sales in 10 years? Hulk 181 will sell that many in grade this week. RMA, I think you have inadvertently validated the OP's original point with the cited GPA data you have provided.

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

So why is it perfectly fine for you that the one or two sales of a cerebus 1 in a 9.2 is sufficient to establish all time most valuable BA comic status for that, yet the 9.9 hulk 181 sale is just a random outlier that should be thrown out? (Not shilled by the way, it was a comic link sale, the buyers paid and it sits comfortably in their collection, no I was not the buyer).

 

Because 9.9 is a freak grade, and cannot be used to establish an argument.

 

And please do try to not use your words loosely. This discussion isn't about "all time most valuable BA comic status." The discussion is about the OPG's valuing of the book above Hulk #181 in the highest grade it uses.

 

Nobody is saying that cerebus 1 in a 9.2 hasn't sold more for a hulk 181 in the same grade once or twice.

 

The entire point of this thread was to point out the ridiculousness of Overstreet for ranking it above hulk 181 based solely on those one or two sales. And it's a valid point/flaw in Overstreet's methodology, whether you choose to acknowledge such or not.

 

-J.

 

Your conclusion is flawed. Here's why:

 

First, you are assuming that Overstreet is ONLY using GPA data to value Cerebus #1 over Hulk #181. This is incorrect. GPA data SUPPORTS Overstreet's conclusion, but it is not the "sole basis" for that conclusion.

 

Second, every single sale of Cerebus #1, as recorded at GPA, in grades 9.2 and higher (five as of today), has been greater than Hulk #181 in the same grade...in 9.4, substantially more.

 

How many more sales would you say there needs to be to establish Cerebus #1's value, high grade for high grade, over Hulk #181? 10? 15? 50?

 

Are all five of those sales outliers, or shilled, or fantasy sales that don't really exist?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Five sales in 10 years? Hulk 181 will sell that many in grade this week. RMA, I think you have inadvertently validated the OP's original point with the cited GPA data you have provided.

-J.

 

Point of clarification: do you mean that "Hulk 181 will sell that many in those grades this week"...?

 

As to validating the OP's point, please see the post above.

[Jaydogrules]

 

Five sales in 10 years? Hulk 181 will sell that many in grade this week. RMA, I think you have inadvertently validated the OP's original point with the cited GPA data you have provided.

-J.

 

Point of clarification: do you mean that "Hulk 181 will sell that many in those grades this week"...?

 

As to validating the OP's point, please see the post above.

 

(thumbs u

 

-J.