Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[FlyingDonut]

Just to be clear:

Hulk 181 9.9 Available unrestored copies: 1
Hulk 181 9.8: 115 (includes signature series)
Hulk 181 9.6: 286 (includes signature series)
Hulk 181 9.4: 442 (includes signature series)

Cerebus 1 9.9: 0
Cerebus 1 9.8: 0
Cerebus 1 9.6: 0
Cerebus 1 9.4: 5 (includes signature series)

If I want to buy a CGC 9.8 Hulk 181, I can make a phone call and have one in my house by Monday. If I want to buy a CGC 9.8 Cerebus 1, I need a time machine. If a CGC 9.8 Cerebus 1 was to appear, it would sell for a significant premium above the Hulk 181.

[Norrin_Radd]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:55 PM, Wolverinex said:

Do you all think Cerebus will ever get popular again like a cartoon series?

I think eventually it will.  Cerebus becomes public domain whenever Dave Sim and Gerhard pass away.

[WolverineX]

12 hours ago, Norinn Radd said:

I think eventually it will.  Cerebus becomes public domain whenever Dave Sim and Gerhard pass away.

So that's when you think the 2000 copies of cerebus 1 will explode in value?

[Martin Sinescu]

On December 22, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Wolverinex said:

Do you all think Cerebus will ever get popular again like a cartoon series?

 ......no.

See, I believe you're thinking Cerebus may be something that it is not. While Cerebus absolutely paved the way for indy books like TMNT and Bone, it is not a cuddly, wacky anthropomorphic animal series like all the books it begat.

Sim did not create Cerebus to be a marketable property with multimedia potential (okay, they did make a stuffed animal). In fact, at times the character's actually a real jerk... but its authentic in the way that our own acquaintances can be infuriating when they don't do what we think is logical or correct. Sim infused his character with a lot dimension, often directly channeling his own prickly arrogance, selfishness and immorality yet also peppering him with a sarcastic, even simplistic wit. Because there was no publisher or editor to pigeon-hole his characters into unrealistic black and white (was that a pun?) categories, his aardvark had a depth and nuance that many human comic characters before never had. 

He also used his title as a vehicle to parody contemporary religion, government, society, etc. (even comics themselves). At times it is tough to read, partly because it can be very dense and complex but also because Sim was not afraid to portray very uncomfortable situations and conflicts. There is humor, sure, Sim's a funny freaking guy, but the freedom he had to evolve his story gave it a scope which may be unparalleled in comics. The blend of artistic styles was unique among anything else I've ever seen, the layouts took risks which would surprise and engage you at the turn of a page, the narrative style constantly changed throughout the series, from arc to arc and sometimes from issue to issue, while the layers of plot and character development were involved on the level of a decades-old soap opera. It was truly bold, unfiltered and unpredictable. 

It's a significant book because of its role in growing independent comic publishing which exploded over the following decade, it's significant because of its hugely ambitious 300-issue run, it's significant because of Dave Sim's daring, intricate and challenging style of storytelling which probably laid the groundwork for what writers like Miller, Moore, and Gaiman continued in the 80's, but I do not think it is significant because this character has mass-market, cartoon appeal. Sim would have to be very, very dead before that would happen... but now that I think about it, it might be just the kind of a-hole thing he would do as a last poot in the face of the world to will the character to Disney.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 12/16/2017 at 7:53 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 12/16/2017 at 7:16 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Maybe you should have read the thread because you just made the same straw man arguments that others did before you.  Cerebus 1 highest grade sold for $9k.  Hulk 181 highest sold for $150k.  No comparison.

Comparing prices using different grades is the biggest straw man argument in the entire thread.

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The ONLY grade Cerebus sells for more than 181 is 9.4 (cerebus' highest grade).  Every grade below that , 181 sells for more.  A lot more.  Every single day.

Unfortunately for Cerebus , overstreet uses the grade 9.2 for its comparisons.  181 wins there.  By a lot.  

And while this little rehash  is all well and good this entire thread was rendered moot when overstreet ranked hulk 181 higher than Cerebus 1 two or three years ago.  As the late Bill Paxton once said - Game Over , Man.

Yeah, that's why this thread was a joke from the start. It was solely based on irrelevant numbers from an annual huge waste of paper.

I've never started threads with titles like "It took you a full decade to realize this issue sells for 10x Guide? Really Overstreet?" because I knew it never actually mattered.

Quote

And I highly doubt 9.8 Cerebus 1 would crack anywhere near $20k.  Unless two super Cerebus fans got into a pizzing contest in an auction. 

Um... duh? You of all people should understand how auctions work. It's not like any of your beloved variants have more than 3 (if even that many) people bidding above 50% or so of the hammer in most auctions.

Quote

Like I said before , the book is niche and the demand for it is beyond weak.  

-J.

Reminds me of certain other (versions of) books that are nowhere near as significant.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 1/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, FlyingDonut said:

Just to be clear:

Hulk 181 9.9 Available unrestored copies: 1
Hulk 181 9.8: 115 (includes signature series)
Hulk 181 9.6: 286 (includes signature series)
Hulk 181 9.4: 442 (includes signature series)

Cerebus 1 9.9: 0
Cerebus 1 9.8: 0
Cerebus 1 9.6: 0
Cerebus 1 9.4: 5 (includes signature series)

If I want to buy a CGC 9.8 Hulk 181, I can make a phone call and have one in my house by Monday. If I want to buy a CGC 9.8 Cerebus 1, I need a time machine. If a CGC 9.8 Cerebus 1 was to appear, it would sell for a significant premium above the Hulk 181.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:38 PM, Tony S said:

On 12/16/2017 at 7:16 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Maybe you should have read the thread because you just made the same straw man arguments that others did before you.  Cerebus 1 highest grade sold for $9k.  Hulk 181 highest sold for $150k.  No comparison. 

The ONLY grade Cerebus sells for more than 181 is 9.4 (cerebus' highest grade).  Every grade below that , 181 sells for more.  A lot more.  Every single day.

Unfortunately for Cerebus , overstreet uses the grade 9.2 for its comparisons.  181 wins there.  By a lot.  

And while this little rehash  is all well and good this entire thread was rendered moot when overstreet ranked hulk 181 higher than Cerebus 1 two or three years ago.  As the late Bill Paxton once said - Game Over , Man.

And I highly doubt 9.8 Cerebus 1 would crack anywhere near $20k.  Unless two super Cerebus fans got into a pizzing contest in an auction.  And even then, nope. 

Like I said before , the book is niche and the demand for it is beyond weak.  

-J.

I think you don't know what a Straw man argument is. The topic of this post is questioning if Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181.  The OP thought that idea wrong... perhaps ridiculous "Really Overstreet?". 

I presented actual sales that said Cerebus is more valuable than Hulk 181 -in 9.4.  And speculated from that data point that the same would hold true in the better than NM grades. If a Cerebus 1 was ever graded 9.8, it too would also sell for much more than Hulk 181 in 9.8. 

A straw man argument is where one argues against a view the other person DOES NOT HAVE.  That is not what I did. 

 

[FlyingDonut]

5 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

So that's when you think the 2000 copies of cerebus 1 will explode in value?

NO one has ever said they will. What people have said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER ad nauseum in this thread is that the NON-EXISTENT 9.6 and 9.8 copies of Cerebus 1 will - since they don't exist, it may be difficult, but bear with me - sell for a ˆsignificant premium over the corresponding graded Hulk 181s, and that the 5 copies of Cerebus 1 in 9.4 - as shown by GPA data, so this is NOT conjecture - sell for a 50% premium over corresponding graded Hulk 181s.

[Jaydogrules]

8 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

NO one has ever said they will. What people have said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER ad nauseum in this thread is that the NON-EXISTENT 9.6 and 9.8 copies of Cerebus 1 will - since they don't exist, it may be difficult, but bear with me - sell for a ˆsignificant premium over the corresponding graded Hulk 181s, and that the 5 copies of Cerebus 1 in 9.4 - as shown by GPA data, so this is NOT conjecture - sell for a 50% premium over corresponding graded Hulk 181s.

As shown by GPA data with a 9.4 being the "highest grade".  If a 9.8 ever became the new highest grade that would obviously change the math.  While it's fun to speculate, that is all anyone can do.  My speculation is that a 9.8 cerebus 1 would be lucky to break $15k, because it is a niche title and character with virtually no demand.   

-J.

[chrisco37]

Ahh Jaydog...as usual, you couldn’t be more wrong.  But you’re steadfast in your belief.  Gotta give you that.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, chrisco37 said:

Ahh Jaydog...as usual, you couldn’t be more wrong.  But you’re steadfast in your belief.  Gotta give you that.

And as always, it's cute how you believe opinions and speculation can be "wrong".

But please, show me a $30,000 copy of this book and I'll be happy to eat my words.  

-J.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jaydogrules

[chrisco37]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

And as always, it's cute how you believe opinions and speculation can be "wrong".

But please, show me a $30,000 copy of this book and I'll be happy to eat my words.  

-J.

Moving the goalposts yet again.  You said (and I paraphrase) a 9.8 might hit 15k.  Now it’s 30?

Not that it matters.  The 9.8 doesn’t exist.  But it would easily pass 15k.  

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, chrisco37 said:

Moving the goalposts yet again.  You said (and I paraphrase) a 9.8 might hit 15k.  Now it’s 30?

Not that it matters.  The 9.8 doesn’t exist.  But it would easily pass 15k.  

I didn't move anything "yet again". Lol. My $30k number was in referece to FlyingDonut's opinion of value.  My opinion is half that or less, due to lack of any real demand for the book.  

We all have our opinions.  Ain't that a hoot?

-J.

[chrisco37]

2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I didn't move anything "yet again". Lol. My $30k number was in referece to FlyingDonut's opinion of value.  My opinion is half that or less, due to lack of any real demand for the book.  

We all have our opinions.  Ain't that a hoot?

-J.

Whatever, dude.  5+ posts ago  you said a 9.8 is (around) 15k.

Don’t try to bring Dan’s valuation in on your argument.

[Jaydogrules]

6 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Whatever, dude.  5+ posts ago  you said a 9.8 is (around) 15k.

Don’t try to bring Dan’s valuation in on your argument.

Yes, I said around  $15k.  I'm still saying that.  And on a good day.  

So what's your point ?  Dude.

-J.

[chrisco37]

My point is you’re wrong.

A 9.8 Cerebus 1 would surpass 15K.  I’ll even give you 17.5.  It would beat that.  Easily.

[RockMyAmadeus]

18 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

On 1/5/2018 at 5:49 PM, Wolverinex said:

So that's when you think the 2000 copies of cerebus 1 will explode in value?

NO one has ever said they will. What people have said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER ad nauseum in this thread is that the NON-EXISTENT 9.6 and 9.8 copies of Cerebus 1 will - since they don't exist, it may be difficult, but bear with me - sell for a ˆsignificant premium over the corresponding graded Hulk 181s, and that the 5 copies of Cerebus 1 in 9.4 - as shown by GPA data, so this is NOT conjecture - sell for a 50% premium over corresponding graded Hulk 181s.

 

[Jaydogrules]

21 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

My point is you’re wrong.

A 9.8 Cerebus 1 would surpass 15K.  I’ll even give you 17.5.  It would beat that.  Easily.

My opinion is that your opinion is hopelessly optimistic.   

-J.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jaydogrules

[chrisco37]

Dang!  Hit me with the forum “eff you”.  

Thanks Jaydog.

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Dang!  Hit me with the forum “eff you”.  

Thanks Jaydog.

Ninja edit.  

-J.