The Dentist, Metropolis...

[Heronext]

That Hulk #1 is the most insane book to me. A silver age Marvel and that's as good as it gets.

 

That's a $1,000,000 book, I think.

 

Yup. It's probably up there.

 

As for your other comments regarding the Don/Maggie books, etc, I'm thinking its going to be difficult (but not impossible) to assembleor find a run of 9.6/9.8 books ala Brulato.

 

It would take another "Curator" type collector to do it. Not impossible, but the chances are diminishing every day.

 

 

Curator- and Thompson-level books are out there to buy, or could be pried out of someone's cold dead hands I would think

[rob_react]

Doug sold.

[VintageComics]

Doug sold.

 

Yeah, but Doug spent a lifetime chasing and pilfering the best.

 

It would be easy to assemble pieces - not so easy to put an entire run together. I know, I have customers asking me all the time over the course of years.

[delekkerste]

It was thought until recently that it would be impossible to build an original art collection that rivaled the truly great ones that were largely assembled when prices were literally pennies, even fractions of a penny, on today's dollar. And yet, one longtime collector came into serious money maybe 6-7 years ago and then proceeded to do just that by sheer brute force, even ripping away the most key of key pieces from the aforementioned established great collections. Granted, it took a longtime, established collector coming into very serious money for this to happen (you need both factors, plus a third factor - single-mindedness), but it proved that it wasn't impossible.

 

If it wasn't impossible in OA, I would hesitate to say that it's impossible in GA, and it's definitely not impossible in SA.

[AlexanderM]

That Hulk #1 is the most insane book to me. A silver age Marvel and that's as good as it gets.

 

That's a $1,000,000 book, I think.

 

Yup. It's probably up there.

 

As for your other comments regarding the Don/Maggie books, etc, I'm thinking its going to be difficult (but not impossible) to assembleor find a run of 9.6/9.8 books ala Brulato.

 

It would take another "Curator" type collector to do it. Not impossible, but the chances are diminishing every day.

 

 

Curator- and Thompson-level books are out there to buy, or could be pried out of someone's cold dead hands I would think

 

Yes, it is not and likely will never be impossible to rival or even better Brutalos SA collection. But it will be expensive.

[rob_react]

Doug sold.

 

Yeah, but Doug spent a lifetime chasing and pilfering the best.

 

It would be easy to assemble pieces - not so easy to put an entire run together. I know, I have customers asking me all the time over the course of years.

 

What I was saying is that it's not even fresh collections that could create a flow of books for someone looking for the best of the best in Silver Age.

[dem1138]

It was thought until recently that it would be impossible to build an original art collection that rivaled the truly great ones that were largely assembled when prices were literally pennies, even fractions of a penny, on today's dollar. And yet, one longtime collector came into serious money maybe 6-7 years ago and then proceeded to do just that by sheer brute force, even ripping away the most key of key pieces from the aforementioned established great collections. Granted, it took a longtime, established collector coming into very serious money for this to happen (you need both factors, plus a third factor - single-mindedness), but it proved that it wasn't impossible.

 

If it wasn't impossible in OA, I would hesitate to say that it's impossible in GA, and it's definitely not impossible in SA.

 

I think the important distinction here though is that this new collection focuses mainly on the Bronze Age to the present with an emphasis on classic moderns (Dark Knight, McFarlane, Lee, etc.). So yes, he's built a rival collection but he focused on an era that did not, as a whole, compete with the same eras as the other collections. He still could never have done that if his focus was the Silver Age because money alone would not pry away what's still buried in these other black hole collections.

 

 

[Crowzilla]

I think he owns more than just the Church copies of the key Supermans and Batmans. He has the Church Action 1-20 run, but doesn't he also own almost all of the Church copies of the initial runs of Superman, Batman Detectives and Batman?

 

I think he also has the Church Pep 22/Archie 1 and Whiz 1 back from Geppi or we would have seen those books either a) at the museum, or b) in one of the various Heritage auctions during Geppi's problem years.

 

[tth2]

That Hulk #1 is the most insane book to me. A silver age Marvel and that's as good as it gets.

 

That's a $1,000,000 book, I think.

 

Yup. It's probably up there.

 

As for your other comments regarding the Don/Maggie books, etc, I'm thinking its going to be difficult (but not impossible) to assembleor find a run of 9.6/9.8 books ala Brulato.

 

It would take another "Curator" type collector to do it. Not impossible, but the chances are diminishing every day.

 

 

Oh, it wouldn't be easy, but there are enough new collections coming through on the SA side that there's opportunity to pick off great copies. If you were trying to do the top 10 Marvel runs you would have a few 9.8/9.6s to go after just at Heritage every week.

You guys are overlooking the fact that anyone trying to create a SA collection to rival Tom`s would have to compete against Tom for any copies that come out that are better than his existing copy. Not such an easy thing to do.

 

Plus, most dealers will continue to give Tom first dibbs on any new discovery. So it`s possible any such new great books will never even make it into market for some competitor to try to win.

[delekkerste]

I think the important distinction here though is that this new collection focuses mainly on the Bronze Age to the present with an emphasis on classic moderns (Dark Knight, McFarlane, Lee, etc.). So yes, he's built a rival collection but he focused on an era that did not, as a whole, compete with the same eras as the other collections. He still could never have done that if his focus was the Silver Age because money alone would not pry away what's still buried in these other black hole collections.

 

Even if he's chosen to focus more on Bronze/Copper/Modern art, he's picked up some of the most iconic covers of the Silver Age (ASM #50, Silver Surfer #4, etc.) And, had he chosen to focus solely on Silver Age, he's certainly spent enough where he could have acquired a lot of other top quality material (not that he doesn't have a number of other impressive SA covers as it is).

 

I disagree that money alone would not pry away what's buried in some of these collections - just look at where the ASM #33 complete story came from. A number of other key books almost came up for sale and probably would be available if you threw enough money at them. Not that it wouldn't be costly, but it can be done; you yourself just told me about a great complete story that would be available at a price. Give me a budget like the one that's been spent and I bet I could assemble a world-class SA OA collection, no problem.

[Rip]

I know DA also found a high grade Golden Age collection in Northern CA that had a All Star 3 graded CGC 9.4. As far as I know he's kept about all of them.

[Timely]

Dave also acquired from me the Sensation Comics Mile High run. I sold him over 60 of them, Since then, he sold the later ones from #41-up. I believe he still has #1-40.

[rob_react]

That Hulk #1 is the most insane book to me. A silver age Marvel and that's as good as it gets.

 

That's a $1,000,000 book, I think.

 

Yup. It's probably up there.

 

As for your other comments regarding the Don/Maggie books, etc, I'm thinking its going to be difficult (but not impossible) to assembleor find a run of 9.6/9.8 books ala Brulato.

 

It would take another "Curator" type collector to do it. Not impossible, but the chances are diminishing every day.

 

 

Oh, it wouldn't be easy, but there are enough new collections coming through on the SA side that there's opportunity to pick off great copies. If you were trying to do the top 10 Marvel runs you would have a few 9.8/9.6s to go after just at Heritage every week.

You guys are overlooking the fact that anyone trying to create a SA collection to rival Tom`s would have to compete against Tom for any copies that come out that are better than his existing copy. Not such an easy thing to do.

 

Plus, most dealers will continue to give Tom first dibbs on any new discovery. So it`s possible any such new great books will never even make it into market for some competitor to try to win.

 

I'm not saying it would be easy or that it wouldn't take a bag of cash the size of a small country. I'm just saying the material exists, in most cases, to take a run at his collection. The biggest exceptions are the FF1 and the Hulk 1.

 

[rob_react]

I think he owns more than just the Church copies of the key Supermans and Batmans. He has the Church Action 1-20 run, but doesn't he also own almost all of the Church copies of the initial runs of Superman, Batman Detectives and Batman?

 

I think he also has the Church Pep 22/Archie 1 and Whiz 1 back from Geppi or we would have seen those books either a) at the museum, or b) in one of the various Heritage auctions during Geppi's problem years.

 

I wonder that the Pep 22 would be worth now. Both sold together for 100k a long time ago now. That's such a crazy book and it's like... the 12th best book in his collection.

[delekkerste]

Not directed at anyone in particular here...the Schmell Collection fetched $3.9 million at Heritage, and wasn't that the #2 SA collection out there? Not that it's a small amount, but it's not particularly huge either (I doubt that $3.9 million would get you in the top 20 in OA, let alone anywhere near #2). I just don't think it would be that hard to build a world-class SA collection if you've got significant resources, which is probably partially why people with significant resources pursue more challenging areas to collect. Just because 2 or 3 of the highest graded keys (like Hulk #1 9.4) might be tough to get wouldn't change that fact.

[sfcityduck]

I know DA also found a high grade Golden Age collection in Northern CA that had a All Star 3 graded CGC 9.4. As far as I know he's kept about all of them.

 

That's the one he got from the ad in Overstreet after he agreed to sell Overstreet the MH.

[r100comics]

Not directed at anyone in particular here...the Schmell Collection fetched $3.9 million at Heritage, and wasn't that the #2 SA collection out there? Not that it's a small amount, but it's not particularly huge either (I doubt that $3.9 million would get you in the top 20 in OA, let alone anywhere near #2). I just don't think it would be that hard to build a world-class SA collection if you've got significant resources, which is probably partially why people with significant resources pursue more challenging areas to collect. Just because 2 or 3 of the highest graded keys (like Hulk #1 9.4) might be tough to get wouldn't change that fact.

 

I'm not sure it would be as easy as you (and others) think.

 

Schmell & Brulato pretty much had the pick of every SA Pedigree in the last 20 years. Not only did Brulato keep trading up until he had the best copy available in that time frame, he was also constantly trading with Schmell himself until he'd cherry-picked what he needed from him also.

 

The "Schmell Collection", although amazing, had many books that were let go by Brulato and achieved the ultimate grade through multiple CPRs.

 

So, short of buying Brulato out wholesale, I'm not sure where the raw materials would come from for someone to match his collection through money alone ?

 

 

[Straw-Man]

Anderson's Superman #1 was bought from Geppi and is definitely superior to the Church copy. I believe Borock has seen it in person.

 

Action 1 MH/Church

Det. 27 Allentown

Bat 1 MH/Church

Superman 1 File

 

I would say Anderson has the top collection, John V. A close second with the majority of the Church Timely's.

 

Dwight

 

For the sake of argument let's assume these are not being sold in the next 30 years. Are we saying there is no possible way a third person could build a collection that rivals these, at least not for Golden Age? Could enough loose books be assembled into a collection that could hold a candle to these? (Fire and comics not being the ideal imagery)

 

On the SA front, isn't this Brulato guy quite the high grade fan or am I thinking of someone else? And I guess Schmell had a pretty nice collection until he sold it?

 

I think both DA and JV's collection are unassailable in the GA.

 

Just looking at the also-rans that I know about or are rumored (Reilly copies, for example) it would be hard to put together keys that match their keys. And then you're faced with the task of trying to assemble Church quality RUNS. It would be basically impossible unless a new 10,000 book near mint collection surfaces and someone overpays for all the books they want.

 

Brulato is the public king of silver age Marvel, but that's clearly not unassailable. The keys almost all exist as multiples at the top level and there are plenty of full runs out there in collections and pedigree collections to feed many top level collections. It would be pricey, of course, but if you were dedicated and had loot you could build that kind of collection even now. Look at the Don/Maggie Thompson books. They're never-ending.

 

pretty tired of you guys forgetting i have 3 pristine copies of major inapak. top that!

[rob_react]

Not directed at anyone in particular here...the Schmell Collection fetched $3.9 million at Heritage, and wasn't that the #2 SA collection out there? Not that it's a small amount, but it's not particularly huge either (I doubt that $3.9 million would get you in the top 20 in OA, let alone anywhere near #2). I just don't think it would be that hard to build a world-class SA collection if you've got significant resources, which is probably partially why people with significant resources pursue more challenging areas to collect. Just because 2 or 3 of the highest graded keys (like Hulk #1 9.4) might be tough to get wouldn't change that fact.

 

I'm not sure it would be as easy as you (and others) think.

 

Schmell & Brulato pretty much had the pick of every SA Pedigree in the last 20 years. Not only did Brulato keep trading up until he had the best copy available in that time frame, he was also constantly trading with Schmell himself until he'd cherry-picked what he needed from him also.

 

The "Schmell Collection", although amazing, had many books that were let go by Brulato and achieved the ultimate grade through multiple CPRs.

 

So, short of buying Brulato out wholesale, I'm not sure where the raw materials would come from for someone to match his collection through money alone ?

 

 

What I was getting at is that I think it's IMPOSSIBLE to take a run at Verzyl or DA. The books simply don't exist outside of their collections. The keys certainly don't.

 

It is,however, POSSIBLE to put together a run that would rival Brulato. Every one of his books is not 1:1 top census. This is a silver age collection we're talking about. So if you flashed a bag of money and bought the best books from the best silver age collections you could get within striking distance. Even just basing this on what's in the registry there's a lot out the that you could hunt down with time/money.

 

Would it be the exact same or better than Brulato. No, especially because of the FF1 and the Hulk1 which are unmatched, but that's not really my point. Throw in a 9.6 AF15 and blow out the rest of the collection as well as you could and you'd have a 9.475 collection up against Tom's 9.585 (or whatever.)

 

I keep saying I don't think it would be easy, and people keep telling me that "it wouldn't be as easy as you think" so, I'm not sure what else I can say on that point. It's a discussion mobius strip.

 

Compare that to the best you could do against the Church books which are often solid runs of 9.+ I think the best a person could realistically do across the breadth of these GA collections would be to end up a full point or more behind the standard they've set.

[Heronext]

Doug sold.

 

Yeah, but Doug spent a lifetime chasing and pilfering the best.

 

It would be easy to assemble pieces - not so easy to put an entire run together. I know, I have customers asking me all the time over the course of years.

 

Not to take away from sweat and blood he may have spent, but wasn't the main appeal of his collection (if not all of it) the Pacific Coast runs which I thought he either bought from the OO or at least was only one or two degrees removed from the original sale?