HULK #181 CGC 9.9!!! DAMN!

[MonumentalCo]

I noticed this book also recently on the census. There are lots of books that have not been graded yet by CGC. I know of several collectors who are going to wait a while before having their books graded. Some would question why they have not graded their books yet. One reason is that they are in private collections and not for sale. Another reason some people have not graded some of their high grade comics is they do not want them to be known in the census. Some people might think this idea is crazy, but some collectors are very private people.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Another reason some people have not graded some of their high grade comics is they do not want them to be known in the census. Some people might think this idea is crazy, but some collectors are very private people.

 

While this is true, the more common reason is to maintain liquidity. If I were sitting on 50 NM copies of GS X-Men #1, I would sure as heck release them slowly, making sure the market could handle the influx.

 

This is what happened with the Wolverine Mini-Series. Each week, the exact same sellers had 2-3 sets of CGC 9.6+ and up, for sale, and it wasn't until a year later that the numbers started getting a little high.

 

By that time, they'd made off like bandits.

[Darthdiesel]

Some people might think this idea is crazy, but some collectors are very private people.

 

why is it that when I read this, I can picture Gollum, hunched over some silver age gems, stroking them obsessively, muttering..."YESSS....MY PRECIOUSSSSS..."

 

[Guest]

why is it that when I read this, I can picture Gollum, hunched over some silver age gems, stroking them obsessively, muttering..."YESSS....MY PRECIOUSSSSS..."

 

Because that's probably pretty close to the truth?

[murph0]

Yeah I'd guess there's some real "lookers" dwelling in the depths of comic collecterdom.

 

Brian

[comicwiz]

Methuselah

 

Been a really hectic week; haven't been as dilligent with checking posts....

 

That was an interesting post -- just wondering though, at the prices they were asking for the AF 15, and the Showcase 4, do you really think an upturn would have been realized on any of those two books in less than 5-10 years? Perhaps the AF 15 might have about a 10-15% upturn potential, and may be more likely to change hands during the 5 years, but because there is a higher graded copy of Showcase 4, I really think the prices paid for those two books are about as close as being their high points for quite some time. My thinking is that there are still a great deal of books out there that haven't been graded.... and one never knows if the 9.8 monster(s) pop-out of nowhere during that time. If one does for either of those books, all bets are off on upturn potential. Looking at it from this perspective, perhaps your complacency in purchasing those book was actually a smart move.

[Guest]

CW, at the time, while Dan G. was waiting for my go ahead on my purchasing the item from him (literally, I had a few hours to make up my mind, having heard about the same day that the buyer lined up was to supposed to either "S--- or get off the pot), I couldn't find any hard evidence to corroborate what Dan G. had told me when he quoted me the price on it. He had said, "there are only TWO copies of AF 15 graded 9.4 by CGC.....but don't hold me to it!". If I could be sure and hear it from any other sources I contacted who may have known, and have be willing to divulge fact instead of an educated guess (remember, at this time there WAS no published census), I would have been there with cash in hand the next morning after giving him my word I would take it. Not knowing if there were 2, 4, 6, 10, etc. of these 9.4s, and if any 9.6s or 9.8s existed, I couldn't be sure that a 90grand purchase was in my best interest at that time. As it turned out, there were four 9.4s and one 9.6 .

Now here's the way I look at pricing vs. rarity on ultra high grade top 5 books. Demand aside, if there were ten 9.4s, NONE would have the same individual value as if there were half as many (5), even if 20 people wanted them and were willing to pay $100K++ each.

CGC isn't stupid. They KNOW this and I genuinely believe that there is a reluctance, whether concious or unconscious, on a grader's part, that knows he is sitting in judgement, representing a company that can make, break, or CREATE a book, or it's submittor, to dole out an ultra high grade on a book that guides over $10K ONLY BECAUSE, to ADD to the census ANOTHER gem is to diminish slightly the rarity and "magic" of those already sitting in the "finest homes", even if the book may be worthy of receiving the same grade as the mythical one of, two of, already tallied in the census.

I wonder how many folks, while going through their Heritage catalog had a fleeting thought, "Hey, two of this, five of that, look at this....I thought these were all so rare?"

Showcase 4 is a red-headed stepchild. Infinitely more difficult than any Marvel key in high grade, but published by the wrong company. It has a very limited appeal. Sure, everybody would LOVE to own one, but, the specific buyer for this book that is willing to plunk $50K to $150K for this is of a far different mindset than 99% of Marvel buyers.

[Crowzilla]

I remember seeing that 9.4 Fantasy #15 at the 2000 San Diego show - beautiful book. I also remember a few months later when the census finally went live that it was already underground common knowledge that there was a 9.6 out there and it wasn't going to show up on the census for awhile.

 

Kinda makes you wonder about the recent Heritage Auction and specifically the More Fun #53. Just in July there are talking about the Mile High Copy and that is "undoubtedly the nicest copy in existence" and that "NO OTHER Major Pedigree collection contains a copy of this issue" -- but here they are publishing their next auction catalog not two months later, and not only does it contain ANOTHER More Fun #53 in 9.6, - but it's a PEDIGREE Copy! And one that was known to most collectors to structurally be the equivalent of the Mile High. The mile high was supposedly "sold" to JP in the 150+ range - kinda makes you wonder why this new copy is sitting unsold at 100.?? There are other examples, I remember after the Sotheby's auction where the Marvel #1 Paycopy failed to reach it's reserve of $60,000 (bidding stopped at $52,000) and in talking with John Snyder afterwards, he told me that they received "several" offers to buy it from them in the 70-80 range after the auction.

 

As another aside - those of you who think grading has changed so much in the past two years with CGC should really be happy with me and other early graders at the Sotheby's auctions - the Marvel #1 was graded a VF89 in 1993 and received a 9.0 from CGC - other books have also been remarkably consisent with their Sotheby's grades from nearly 10 years ago.

 

Many of the biggest books are definitely a game of hot potato, the market is still way to small at the very highest end to make any six figure book a sure bet.

Having said that, I still wish I was in a position to have bought back my old Wonder Woman #1 (the 9.0) copy at Heritage this weekend - most likely that probably will be the best existing copy - the Mile High is lost and only the Denver comes close to it in quality.

 

Sean

 

[CosmicBob]

By "lost" do you mean no one knows where it is or it is known to have been destroyed somehow?

 

If no one knows where it is, it may show up sometime. It'd be a shame if it got destroyed though!

[Crowzilla]

lost meaning it was one of the first books he sold from the collection - through his store to a lady that walked in off the street and was looking for a Wonder Woman #1.

 

He doesn't know who she was (has not reappeared, so doesn't seem to be a big collector) and the book hasn't resurfaced since '77.

My guess is that even if it does pop back up, there's not a big chance it's anywhere close to the original condition it was in.

[CosmicBob]

There's something odd right there, a female walking into a comic shop! At least she got something she wanted, so it was probably appreciated as a comic by her.

 

I bet she read it and wrinkled the pages, maybe spilled coffee on it and probably bent back the corners! Ol' Edgar would have pooped his pants!