Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC??? 44 44

[jaybuck43]

That's what it sounds like. An ASM 5 4/5 went into an 8 holder and and 8 went into a 4/5. So... now to find that ASM 5

[Unca Ben]

It's just something that the submitter didn't notice he got 4/5 book back when he submitted an 8.0 .

If it went down this way.

 

Wouldn't most people notice the book that was returned to them was in the very good range when they sent in a very fine? Regardless of what the label said.

[ttfitz]

I don't want to speak for CGC, but what I understood from speaking with them is that the most likely explanation is that there were two copies of ASM 5 in the work area, and the wrong one got into the holder. Not a grading error--the three graders definitely did grade a book in the 8.0 range, just not the one that ended up in the holder. Somehow the wrong book was picked up and the result was the slab you saw.

 

Sounds like a serious breakdown in their stated procedure. From their website:

 

"CGC’s Receiving Department opens the newly arrived packages each morning and immediately verifies that the number of books in each package matches the number shown on the invoice. Once this is done, a more detailed comparison is made to ensure that their invoice descriptions correspond to the actual comics. This information is entered into a computer, and the comics will henceforth be traceable at all stages of the grading process by their invoice number and their line number within that invoice. Each book is placed within protective mylar that has affixed to it a label bearing the invoice and line item numbers, information which is duplicated on the label in a bar-coded inscription for quick reading by the computer.

 

"After each comic has been graded and the necessary numbers and text entered into their respective data fields, all the comics on a particular invoice are taken from the Grading Department into the Encapsulation Department. Here, appropriately color-coded labels are printed out bearing the appropriate descriptive text, including each book's grade and identification number. This last item is extremely important, as it serves to make each certified comic unique and is also an important deterrent to counterfeiting CGC's valued product. All of the above information is duplicated in a bar code, which appears underneath the written text on the comic's label.

 

"The newly-printed labels are stacked in the same sequence as the comics to be encapsulated with them, ensuring that each book and its label match one another."

 

Seems like the title to this thread is appropriate.

[NTHstars]

There's a good chance the "undergraded" comic has already been cracked out and resubmitted by either the original submitter or someone who bought it who saw they had a far better comic then they label suggested.

[Joanna]

 

I've never been able to do it either. But people have done it. Years ago someone posted a video of it being done. It was removed (for obvious reasons).

 

That was Hammer. He made the video and immediately got kicked off the boards for it. It was the one time he was trying to be helpful (someone asked if it was possible). CGC did not find it helpful.

 

That said, it was one of the old-style slabs. I think they fixed those vulnerabilities fairly quickly.

 

-- Joanna

[jaeldubyoo]

 

This thread serves to remind me that there's a whole lotta speculating going on these boards.

 

But I will admit there's also a lot of good info shared.

[Davenport]

I don't want to speak for CGC, but what I understood from speaking with them is that the most likely explanation is that there were two copies of ASM 5 in the work area, and the wrong one got into the holder. Not a grading error--the three graders definitely did grade a book in the 8.0 range, just not the one that ended up in the holder. Somehow the wrong book was picked up and the result was the slab you saw.

 

Sounds like a serious breakdown in their stated procedure. From their website:

 

"CGC’s Receiving Department opens the newly arrived packages each morning and immediately verifies that the number of books in each package matches the number shown on the invoice. Once this is done, a more detailed comparison is made to ensure that their invoice descriptions correspond to the actual comics. This information is entered into a computer, and the comics will henceforth be traceable at all stages of the grading process by their invoice number and their line number within that invoice. Each book is placed within protective mylar that has affixed to it a label bearing the invoice and line item numbers, information which is duplicated on the label in a bar-coded inscription for quick reading by the computer.

 

"After each comic has been graded and the necessary numbers and text entered into their respective data fields, all the comics on a particular invoice are taken from the Grading Department into the Encapsulation Department. Here, appropriately color-coded labels are printed out bearing the appropriate descriptive text, including each book's grade and identification number. This last item is extremely important, as it serves to make each certified comic unique and is also an important deterrent to counterfeiting CGC's valued product. All of the above information is duplicated in a bar code, which appears underneath the written text on the comic's label.

 

"The newly-printed labels are stacked in the same sequence as the comics to be encapsulated with them, ensuring that each book and its label match one another."

 

Seems like the title to this thread is appropriate.

Seems more like an instance of human error than a "serious breakdown in their stated procedure".

 

Somebody zigged when they should've zagged. It happens.

 

There's plenty to criticize CGC on without holding them to an impossible standard. No enterprise on earth is exempt from the occasional human error.

Better to criticize them for not doing everything possible (like providing free detailed grader's notes) to safeguard end-users against the inevitable. imho.

 

 

[Wally's Comics]

another whuuups? or after a certain LG does it just not matter???

 

Reprieved! I didn't know the purple label was discretionary...

 

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Wally's Comics

[passion4comics]

4.5... Because I had a 5.5 that blew that one away. I guess their magic 8-ball got stuck that day.

[jaybuck43]

another whuuups? or after a certain LG does it just not matter???

 

 

 

 

:shrug: Where's the issue? Book looks like a 2.0, there is color touch and CGC decided to not purple label it (which they are allowed to do per the back of their label). The only issue is I don't see where the tape is.

[the blob]

AWESOME!!!!! about 2,000 SA VGs in my collection just became VFs! I'm rich!!!

[Wally's Comics]

another whuuups? or after a certain LG does it just not matter???

 

 

 

 

:shrug: Where's the issue? Book looks like a 2.0, there is color touch and CGC decided to not purple label it (which they are allowed to do per the back of their label). The only issue is I don't see where the tape is.

 

you learn something new every day I guess...

 

I didn't know the purple label was discretionary.

 

I stand corrected.

 

 

 

 

[passion4comics]

 

We have examined the book closely and don't see any evidence that the slab has been tampered with. The "Minor side edge crack" mentioned in our item listing is not evidence of tampering--it's just a tiny hairline crack about an inch below the upper right corner. Our consignment manager says she'd have to break it open to examine the inner well, but doesn't see anything off about the exterior.

 

Just spoke to CGC and they were very helpful. We are sending the book to CGC to review and determine what happened.

 

I don't understand your consignment manager's comment. First by breaking open the slab at this point, you are destroying the evidence. Second, the inner well has nothing to do with the tampering. In this case. the outer well and only the outer well was compromised, allowing the culprit to swap out the inner well or the label. The opening of a slab has been discussed on the Boards before. If done carefully, the only evidence you would see is probably that hairline crack you mentioned. The location, inch from the corner is where it pops.

 

The submitter(seller) should be charged with a crime, seriously.

 

 

Should the consignment manager be charged with a crime?

 

I'm not sure I'm understanding why you find my comments funny. It was mentioned that historically CGC will bring in law enforcement in cases of tampering, as well they should. If the book was tampered with, how is this not fraud ?

 

If the person who swapped the comic had the intent to defraud someone then yes, but no law enforcement agency cares. Who would have jurisdiction over this? Do you think the FBI would get involved because it crosses state lines? No. Good luck even getting someone to file a police report. If I were back in the 75 precinct in NYC and you walked up to the desk officer and said "Someone swapped my comic" you would be laughed out of the building.

 

The owner of the book may be another victim. You can't charge him with anything. You would have to follow the trail of sales until there was an alleged swap. Good luck. Who is going to prosecute this? Only when it gets as big as that baseball card scandal, whatever his name was, will the Feds get involved and that's a big maybe. There are sellers on EBay selling tons of obvious fake pieces of art. Do you see them being lead from their apartments by droves in cuffs?

 

Mycomicshop should just return the book to the owner. If they send it to CGC, if I were the seller, who authorized you to resubmit my book? I gave you an 8 and you sent me back a 4.5 because your opinion contradicted what CGC said it was. Have you ever sent a 9.4 back to CGC because you thought it was a 9.2? Then as the owner of a new 4.5 I would lean on CGC for restitution for their mistake which caused me financial harm since I was NOT the original submitter, an assumption, their TOS doesn't apply to me since I never agreed to them as an original submitter.

 

Best option here is to not be blind when buying a book and realize this is not an 8 and just send it back to the owner and let him deal with CGC if he wants to. If you can't tell this is not an 8 then you deserve to be the new happy owner of it.

 

There was a video on how to pop the corners. I've popped out books and the posts were still good. A touch of glue and I could have put a newpaper in there as a graded book with no signs of tampering. I think this is just a typo by CGC and the person is trying to unload the book asap.

[jaybuck43]

another whuuups? or after a certain LG does it just not matter???

 

 

 

 

:shrug: Where's the issue? Book looks like a 2.0, there is color touch and CGC decided to not purple label it (which they are allowed to do per the back of their label). The only issue is I don't see where the tape is.

 

you learn something new every day I guess...

 

I didn't know the purple label was discretionary.

 

I stand corrected.

 

 

 

 

Wally, to be fair, this is the first time I've ever seen it done with a Silver age book. The discretionary non-restored is usually done on GA books, like the Whiz #2 (#1) in the Sig auction at Heritage (though from what I understand, that book had previously been Purple Label and they removed JUST enough of the restoration to get a discretionary Blue instead of Purple).

[mysterio]

another whuuups? or after a certain LG does it just not matter???

 

 

 

 

:shrug: Where's the issue? Book looks like a 2.0, there is color touch and CGC decided to not purple label it (which they are allowed to do per the back of their label). The only issue is I don't see where the tape is.

 

you learn something new every day I guess...

 

I didn't know the purple label was discretionary.

 

I stand corrected.

 

 

 

 

Wally, to be fair, this is the first time I've ever seen it done with a Silver age book. The discretionary non-restored is usually done on GA books, like the Whiz #2 (#1) in the Sig auction at Heritage (though from what I understand, that book had previously been Purple Label and they removed JUST enough of the restoration to get a discretionary Blue instead of Purple).

 

On a discretionary blue do they include the phrase "Restoration includes..."? From what I recall they simply put a note like "Glue on spine of cover" that does not include the R-word. This looks like a label color mistake to me, and it should have had a purple stripe like my book got. Unless, of course, the difference between a 2.0 and 2.5 is enough to get a pass...

 

[jaybuck43]

No no, it will always say "restoration includes" This is different than a note like "Glue on cover" etc.

 

The pertinent part of the back label, which apparently only lawyers read .

 

 

[Transplant]

I'm guessing this book was supposed to be in a purble-yellow slab. Minor notes of ct or tape or glue or whatever, don't say "restoration includes".

[jaybuck43]

Possible Transplant, but this is where I have a problem with CGCs policy. Since they can discretionally say that there is restoration but still blue label (or in this case yellow label it) there is no way to say that it WASN"T. Know what I mean?

[mysterio]

Possible Transplant, but this is where I have a problem with CGCs policy. Since they can discretionally say that there is restoration but still blue label (or in this case yellow label it) there is no way to say that it WASN"T. Know what I mean?

 

Yes, because if it crosses the line into grade-affecting restoration for them, they will say "Restoration includes..." and pop it into a purple label. If it doesn't cross that line, in their opinion, they will put it in a blue with notes. The blue labels with notes never use the R-word anywhere on the label. It would be pretty contradictory for them to use the R-word on a blue label if they aren't going to call it a restored book.

 

If I recall correctly, the line is whether or not the work improves the grade of the book. So if an older book (usually GA, not sure this is done much with SA unless it is very early) has glue or CT that does not improve the grade then it can be put into a blue label with notes at their discretion. If they're still going with that policy then the Batman book would be much too recent to fall under the "blue with notes" category.

[Wally's Comics]

What is going on with the friggin' book edges during encapsulation???

I sub about 2 subs a year and on every sub there is some issue - either the

labels are swapped or I've even seen a case where the book was in the wrong case all together.

 

This problem is getting out of hand though. It's the treatment of the tip ends on the books. The book weren't subbed this way, but are getting crushed on the edges during encapsulation. Over the past I've been the hell with it, it's not worth the drama, effort or time to send this back and get cracked and pressed out. I'm changing my tune pretty fast though. These three are books that just said the heck with it and sent to cosigner (I just didn't want to tie these books up any longer) As such I deleted the the serial on these.

 

#1

 

#2 Here's another Avengers 58 that I picked up under GP because of this defect

(what the hell do these guys got against this issue???)

 

#3 This one burned especially since this is heating up...

 

 

This is what I got back today!

I truly hate this! This was from a one owner collection that picked these up off the newsstands in the late 60's and cherished them. Not only that this has a cool color variant where the royal blue had less of a hit making the book a lot more purple. This smash instead of the bottom is on the top and goes all the way a few inches. Even if this was pressed again and re-slabbed I think the best would be a VF-

 

 

This book doesn't deserve this and just leaves me shaking my head!

If this was during shipping from sarasota then it's time to rethink the packing methods.

(None of the other 14 books were effected though, nor was the package beat up???)

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is beyond disappointing! I just don't get it, where is the quality control???