Ebay Seller Issue...

[skypinkblu]

I don't know if this guy deserved a neg, or having his name thrown under the bus

He said he didn't know, gave you your money back, and has stated what happened, and that it has possibly been trimmed to everyone who has inquired about it's resto status in the current auction.

 

About the only thing more he could do would be to list in the new auction that cgc alleged trimming on a past submission, but the expert he checked with said it wasn't the case.

 

 

This is exactly why I posted my experience here.

 

The guy wouldn't have received a negative if he would have mentioned a possible trim in the new description. My experience with him was decent until I saw the new listing. I even emailed him asking why he didn't include the possible trim in the relisting, but he didn't reply until I left the feedback. If he's not willing to include recently acquired info regarding one of his books (whether it's true or not), what else could he be failing to mention? That's great that he'll mention the trim if you email, but what about the guy who doesn't and gets the book thinking there is no restoration.

 

This is why the negative has been left. I don't want anyone to go through the same trouble and disappointment with this book.

 

He has his opinion about the trimming based on his experts word, but at least throw the info into the description to ensure people know 100% what they are getting.

 

Unfortunately, we've had books CGC has said were trimmed and then they changed their mind. We also had at least one book that they said was trimmed and it was from an OO who bought it himself off the rack.

 

People aren't perfect. Personally, I would have left no feedback, because I can't leave feedback for someone based on a future transaction for someone else, but I might have asked him politely if he would mind mentioning it in his ad.

 

I've been on eBay for a long time, I list less and less and each time I do decide to list, I cringe because I'm afraid I'll make an honest mistake and someone will punish me for it. I'm tempted at times to remove the bids of people who I see leave lots of negs, because most times, it can just be worked out, not always, but the fact that the person not only refunded, he is answering questions honestly, makes me think he might just be honest.

 

Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

[Zevgoli]

I'm looking at this guys past feedback and it seems he does most of his business in stamps and things other than comics. Probably he is not an expert in comics and has never heard of CGC before. He is not inclined to research them and why should he. He took the book to someone else to look at and they said it wasn't trimmed. Therefore why should he list it as trimmed? He is under no obligation to take it to a bunch of experts for further examination. He gave you your money back and completely fulfilled his obligation to you. Transaction wise he seemed good from start to finish. I buy a lot of things off of eBay and I value my 100% + feedback. I view feedback as the natural ending to a transaction and that transaction only. I don't view it as a protest tool for something that has been perceived as shady. This guy clearly has a lot of satisfied customers and is honest to his customers via their comments. He probably doesn't understand all the nuances of comic collecting and grading like the forum does. He is just selling the book.

 

I don't think negative feedback should have been left for this for the reasons I stated above. CGC is not perfect and I know that from my own dealings with them.

 

We tend to easily get on a high horse and forget to get off sometimes.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

BTW that's a nice book.

[wombat]

How many people here would be comfortable buying that book as untrimmed?

[Zevgoli]

How many people here would be comfortable buying that book as untrimmed?

 

Again not the point. The alarm has been raised here. The issue has been brought to the attention of the seller. Even negative feedback has been registered with the reason why for all to see. That's all you can do. We're not on a crusade here.

 

Cheers, Howard

[Rip]

How many people here would be comfortable buying that book as untrimmed?

 

Or... how many people here would be comfortable SELLING that book as untrimmed.

 

I would like to see more of these people speak up.

 

[sd2416]

I don't know if this guy deserved a neg, or having his name thrown under the bus

He said he didn't know, gave you your money back, and has stated what happened, and that it has possibly been trimmed to everyone who has inquired about it's resto status in the current auction.

 

About the only thing more he could do would be to list in the new auction that cgc alleged trimming on a past submission, but the expert he checked with said it wasn't the case.

 

 

This is exactly why I posted my experience here.

 

The guy wouldn't have received a negative if he would have mentioned a possible trim in the new description. My experience with him was decent until I saw the new listing. I even emailed him asking why he didn't include the possible trim in the relisting, but he didn't reply until I left the feedback. If he's not willing to include recently acquired info regarding one of his books (whether it's true or not), what else could he be failing to mention? That's great that he'll mention the trim if you email, but what about the guy who doesn't and gets the book thinking there is no restoration.

 

This is why the negative has been left. I don't want anyone to go through the same trouble and disappointment with this book.

 

He has his opinion about the trimming based on his experts word, but at least throw the info into the description to ensure people know 100% what they are getting.

 

So you didnt leave feedback after the original transaction but waited. Why?

[wombat]

How many people here would be comfortable buying that book as untrimmed?

 

Again not the point. The alarm has been raised here. The issue has been brought to the attention of the seller. Even negative feedback has been registered with the reason why for all to see. That's all you can do. We're not on a crusade here.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

Not the point of what?

[jimjum12]

I would be curious as to how many books that CGC has designated as trimmed..... a percentage of the whole, as it were. I bet it isn't a lot. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

...... The argument is often used that "the book wasn't worth enough when I bought it to warrant a trim". To play the devil's advocate, that would be exactly the kind of book one might practice on. That being said, it would be very, very difficult to get a nice straight edge on a cover using a manual procedure. To say that a book has been trimmed because the edges and corners are sharp is a questionable assumption, as the books are all trimmed at the plant and are originally very sharp.....this state would be more and more likely the higher graded a book is. The 107 does look trimmed to me.

[Zevgoli]

How many people here would be comfortable buying that book as untrimmed?

 

Again not the point. The alarm has been raised here. The issue has been brought to the attention of the seller. Even negative feedback has been registered with the reason why for all to see. That's all you can do. We're not on a crusade here.

 

Cheers, Howard

 

Not the point of what?

 

The issue has been thoroughly discussed. All that can be done has been done to warn potential buyers of the book. Everything past that is just navel gazing and supposition.

 

But to give your question an answer, I would say no since enough doubt has been sown about it.

 

Cheers, Howard

[Turtle]

To the OP,

 

Part of what bothers me about this thread is how you conducted yourself. If I have this straight:

• You bought a book from a seller
• You sent the book in to be graded
• Before encapsulation, the book was shown as trimmed
• You relayed the trimmed information to the seller and ultimately, he gave you a refund with what sounds like fairly little effort
  

 

And after this, you didn't leave a positive feedback?

 

If I bought an item and upon receipt realized there was something wrong with it, I'd bring it to the attention of the seller. In many cases, I would assume the seller made an honest mistake or possibly it wasn't even anything in his control. However, if the seller offers a relatively hassle-free refund, I'm going to leave that seller positive feedback. That seller did right by me and while I'm disappointed that I don't have the item, it may not be the sellers fault and he did everything a good seller should.

 

The moment you got your refund, you should have left feedback that reflected the service you received as your transaction was complete. We've become too eager to punish the bad stuff we see on ebay but you have to reinforce the good as well.

 

As a seller on ebay, I'll refund a buyer's money for a wide variety of reasons. Generally, I lose a bit of money on these transactions, but I feel that I'm futher solidifying my good reputation by standing by my listings. If I received a negative feedback after I also lost money in an attempt to do the right thing, I'd have little incentive to stay on ebay.

 

The seller's responsibilty to list the possible trimming is debatable, but you giving him negative feedback despite getting a hassle-free refund isn't. Please consider contacting ebay to have the negative removed.

[Davenport]

As a seller on ebay, I'll refund a buyer's money for a wide variety of reasons. Generally, I lose a bit of money on these transactions, but I feel that I'm futher solidifying my good reputation by standing by my listings. If I received a negative feedback after I also lost money in an attempt to do the right thing, I'd have little incentive to stay on ebay.

 

The seller's responsibilty to list the possible trimming is debatable, but you giving him negative feedback despite getting a hassle-free refund isn't. Please consider contacting ebay to have the negative removed.

Do you think most ebayers are savvy enough so that 1 neg out of 31,793 probably speaks more about the giver than receiver?

Even with that 1st neg since 1997 he's still at 100%. Odds are he'll blink once or twice and move on.

[wombat]

To the OP,

 

Part of what bothers me about this thread is how you conducted yourself. If I have this straight:

• You bought a book from a seller
• You sent the book in to be graded
• Before encapsulation, the book was shown as trimmed
• You relayed the trimmed information to the seller and ultimately, he gave you a refund with what sounds like fairly little effort
  

 

And after this, you didn't leave a positive feedback?

 

 

How is having to return something a positive experience?

[LordRahl]

That book is trimmed, plain and simple. It's not one of those questionable books. I have a hard time believing that someone who obviously deals in comics wouldn't be able to tell right away, especially with book in hand. And what prominent NYC dealer told him it didn't look trimmed? Either that guy is clueless or more likely doesn't exist.

 

And I agree that a neg is warranted. Why would the OP leave positive feedback on a transaction that he had to return the book after having to prove that CGC said it was trimmed. What about that seems like a positive transaction to people again?

[Barbarian]

The seller is saying he doesn´t agree with CGC and raises reasonable doubt. Not much you can do in this situation + he can probably get that neg removed since you got refunded and all of this is based on an invoice screenshot.

Just because a seller refunds a buyer does not mean they can remove the buyer's negative feedback. If it's the buyer's opinion they had a negative experience there are very few criteria that will erase that negative.

 

True. But from EBay’s perspective, an invoice screenshot is hardly any proof that the book is trimmed and the seller can point that out. If the book was graded and was in a slab, there would be something more solid to rely on.

 

I don´t doubt the OP, but a screenshot doesn´t even prove that the invoice was for that particular book. It could be an invoice for another 107.

 

[Point Five]

And what prominent NYC dealer told him it didn't look trimmed? Either that guy is clueless or more likely doesn't exist.

That's an interesting point. With so few comic stores left here, I have to wonder how many 'very knowledgeable' NYC dealers one could even find to drop by on short notice with a restoration question.

 

 

[skypinkblu]

I would be curious as to how many books that CGC has designated as trimmed..... a percentage of the whole, as it were. I bet it isn't a lot. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

...... The argument is often used that "the book wasn't worth enough when I bought it to warrant a trim". To play the devil's advocate, that would be exactly the kind of book one might practice on. That being said, it would be very, very difficult to get a nice straight edge on a cover using a manual procedure. To say that a book has been trimmed because the edges and corners are sharp is a questionable assumption, as the books are all trimmed at the plant and are originally very sharp.....this state would be more and more likely the higher graded a book is. The 107 does look trimmed to me.

 

He also said he bought it from Long Island...wasn't a famous trimmer from LI? Doesn't mean the seller knew, but it makes it more suspicious.

My guess is that the seller does know now that trimming is a problem and that's why he doesn't mention it, but I still would have asked him to post it before doing anything else. I like to give most people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whilst the edges do look very sharp, CGC provide an opinion. If the seller doesn't agree with that opinion he's under no obligation to state it on his auction.

 

You got your money back, the seller has also mentioned CGCs opinion when questioned by a third party, which he didn't have to.

 

I don't think this is totally black and white and outing him on here where he has no recourse seems a bit mob mentality to me.

 

Not trying to start an argument, just an opinion... Just like CGC provides.

 

Correct.

[LordRahl]

The seller is saying he doesn´t agree with CGC and raises reasonable doubt. Not much you can do in this situation + he can probably get that neg removed since you got refunded and all of this is based on an invoice screenshot.

Just because a seller refunds a buyer does not mean they can remove the buyer's negative feedback. If it's the buyer's opinion they had a negative experience there are very few criteria that will erase that negative.

 

True. But from EBay’s perspective, an invoice screenshot is hardly any proof that the book is trimmed and the seller can point that out. If the book was graded and was in a slab, there would be something more solid to rely on.

 

I don´t doubt the OP, but a screenshot doesn´t even prove that the invoice was for that particular book. It could be an invoice for another 107.

 

Geez people are going out of their way to think up what if's. LOOK at the book. It is trimmed. It is obviously trimmed too. No bottom overhang, no top overhang and the top is razor sharp. If there was overhang on the bottom it could be cover shift but on a silver Marvel there has to be one or the other.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't know if this guy deserved a neg, or having his name thrown under the bus

He said he didn't know, gave you your money back, and has stated what happened, and that it has possibly been trimmed to everyone who has inquired about it's resto status in the current auction.

 

About the only thing more he could do would be to list in the new auction that cgc alleged trimming on a past submission, but the expert he checked with said it wasn't the case.

 

 

I agree with this totally. He has solid reasoning as to why he doesn't agree with the CGC findings, and he refunded your purchase. What else is he supposed to do?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that CGC isn't 100% perfect in their unbiased opinions of grades. I've got a Tales to Astonish 101 they say is a 7.0 that looks better than one of my 8.5's.

 

It's a shoot at best when you submit your books for grading. How many times have you gotten submissions back and just stared blankly at the assigned grade, saying, "How in the...?"

 

 

He is suppose to relay the possiblity of there being a trim.

 

Why?

 

He doesn't agree, and his reasoning is solid, if not foolproof. "Back in the olden days", when such books weren't worth a lot of money, there wasn't much incentive to trim books (which isn't a particularly easy task to do well), and it wouldn't have added substantially to the value.

 

Now, that's not foolproof...trimmers would often practice on low value books, so it's possible...but not probable.

 

CGC isn't God, their opinion is just that: an opinion. It may be the most informed opinion in the market, and in most cases, it is, but it's still just an opinion, and they are the first to state that (look on the label.)

 

If someone picks up this book thinking that there are no restorations and they send it to CGC, chances are they're going to get the same result.

 

Yes, but it's not absolute, and people are allowed to disagree. I disagree with CGC's grades...up AND down...all the time, and I know what I'm doing.

 

CGC even disagrees with itself.

 

If I have a book they grade 9.4 on one day, and 9.8 on the other, with nothing happening in between...who is right?

 

No one is under any obligation to say "a third party thinks it has this."

 

Sure CGC makes mistakes, but if a book you were interested in had been submitted and returned because of a possible trim, wouldn't you want to know before you made the purchase?

 

I appreciate the replies.

 

Of course I would, because I trust CGC's opinion. But does that mean I have a right to that information?

 

No.

[Jeffro.]

Some people seem to think that CGC's opinion is sacrosanct.