Ebay Seller Issue...

[wombat]

I guess this would be my issue. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy books with the intention of subbing to CGC. Without knowing who will or won't and knowing this will most likely be an issue for those that do it feels a bit sketchy to me.

 

As a somewhat follow up question for those that would not disclose. If the buyer mentioned they were going to submit it would you say anything?

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the record....

 

The person who, in my opinion, is more qualified than anyone on the planet to detect restoration in comic books is Susan Cicconi. There is nobody in the hobby today that has her eye, her experience, and her knowledge.

 

So, if SHE said it was, or was not, resto'd, I would, for me, disclose that. But that is my personal opinion, and would not expect anyone to abide by that for that reason alone.

 

And she does not work for CGC.

 

 

[Rip]

Don't forget, OO books bought off stands can have restoration also; there were people who bought (I believe an issue of Venom straight off the newsstands). The books came back with color touch. Later CGC found out it was a person from the factory who was marking the books.

 

 

[koollectablz]

How? It's easy to be dismissive, but in saying that, you are saying without any wiggle room that you would not disclose in that case.

 

Correct.

 

If I bought a book off the stands. Sent it to CGC and it came back trimmed when I knew 100% that they were wrong, then I would discount their opinion completely.

 

No grey areas, no telling other people something I knew to be 100% false.

[Rip]

For the record....

 

The person who, in my opinion, is more qualified than anyone on the planet to detect restoration in comic books is Susan Cicconi. There is nobody in the hobby today that has her eye, her experience, and her knowledge.

 

So, if SHE said it was, or was not, resto'd, I would, for me, disclose that. But that is my personal opinion, and would not expect anyone to abide by that for that reason alone.

 

And she does not work for CGC.

 

 

While I love Susan, FYI she misses stuff also. If you go through enough books you WILL miss stuff.

[jimjum12]

How? It's easy to be dismissive, but in saying that, you are saying without any wiggle room that you would not disclose in that case.

 

Correct.

 

If I bought a book off the stands. Sent it to CGC and it came back trimmed when I knew 100% that they were wrong, then I would discount their opinion completely.

 

No grey areas, no telling other people something I knew to be 100% false.

 

... this

[koollectablz]

I guess this would be my issue. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy books with the intention of subbing to CGC. Without knowing who will or won't and knowing this will most likely be an issue for those that do it feels a bit sketchy to me.

 

As a somewhat follow up question for those that would not disclose. If the buyer mentioned they were going to submit it would you say anything?

 

I'd stand by my opinion as given at the time of sale.

 

If it came back trimmed then I'd offer a refund, take a second look at the book, and if I still didn't think it was trimmed.

 

I'd relist it exactly the same way as I had before.

[cousin itt]

How? It's easy to be dismissive, but in saying that, you are saying without any wiggle room that you would not disclose in that case.

 

Correct.

 

If I bought a book off the stands. Sent it to CGC and it came back trimmed when I knew 100% that they were wrong, then I would discount their opinion completely.

 

No grey areas, no telling other people something I knew to be 100% false.

 

Well, I would do no such thing. I know the buyer would want to know and I would not want the buyer thinking I am trying to pull a fast one.

 

But it's not relevant here, at all. The seller in this case was not the original owner. He has no way of knowing what was done to the book before he bought it.

 

[jimjum12]

How? It's easy to be dismissive, but in saying that, you are saying without any wiggle room that you would not disclose in that case.

 

Correct.

 

If I bought a book off the stands. Sent it to CGC and it came back trimmed when I knew 100% that they were wrong, then I would discount their opinion completely.

 

No grey areas, no telling other people something I knew to be 100% false.

 

Well, I would do no such thing. I know the buyer would want to know and I would not want the buyer thinking I am trying to pull a fast one.

 

But it's not relevant here, at all. The seller in this case was not the original owner. He has no way of knowing what was done to the book before he bought it.

 

..... plus, that book IS trimmed. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[LordRahl]

I guess this would be my issue. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy books with the intention of subbing to CGC. Without knowing who will or won't and knowing this will most likely be an issue for those that do it feels a bit sketchy to me.

 

As a somewhat follow up question for those that would not disclose. If the buyer mentioned they were going to submit it would you say anything?

 

I'd stand by my opinion as given at the time of sale.

 

If it came back trimmed then I'd offer a refund, take a second look at the book, and if I still didn't think it was trimmed.

 

I'd relist it exactly the same way as I had before.

 

Maybe this is how all the scheisters like Hammer rationalize selling restored books. "Well, in my opinion, it's not restored so who cares what CGC said. I'll just crack it out and sell it as unrestored because my opinion is superior".

 

Not calling you a scheister, just saying that your statement seems to rationalize a lot of the scam activity we see in this hobby.

 

Here's the other thing most of the "well it's only CGC's opinion" crowd seem to be missing. People that are buying your books on ebay... they don't care what YOUR opinion is. But I bet they care what CGC's opinion is.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I guess this would be my issue. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy books with the intention of subbing to CGC. Without knowing who will or won't and knowing this will most likely be an issue for those that do it feels a bit sketchy to me.

 

As a somewhat follow up question for those that would not disclose. If the buyer mentioned they were going to submit it would you say anything?

 

Understand, the issue here isn't "not disclosing" for the sake of hiding something.

 

The issue is reasonable disagreement. As always, context is everything.

 

First, you have to actually, honestly disagree. If a trim job is as plain as the nose on your face, and you know it, you can't say "oh, well, clearly this hasn't really been trimmed", but you, your mother, your dog, and the postman can see it has, you can't reasonably disagree. It has to be reasonable debatable in the first place.

 

Second, reputation comes into play. If Joe Blow comes around and says to himself "I don't think there's color touch, here", who is he, and what does his say so mean?

 

But if...let's pull a random name out of the air that I trust to get it right most of the time...Nick of Comicana (Flaming Telepath here) were to say "bollocks. I've had this book since it was new, there's no color touch", then yes, no problem. FT is someone who has been dealing with comic books since I've been alive.

 

So, what happens when a book that CGC originally thought had restoration is resubbed and comes back Universal...? Is the seller, with a book in a CGC Universal slab, obligated to say "well, this USED to be in a slab that said it was trimmed, but this time around, they either didn't catch it, or changed their mind"...? To be consistent, you'd have to say yes.

[slym2none]

(this post is not in response to any one person)

 

FTR - I was playing Devil's Advocate on a total hypothetical situation. (Obviously.)

 

 

 

 

-slym

[RockMyAmadeus]

I guess this would be my issue. Obviously there are plenty of people that buy books with the intention of subbing to CGC. Without knowing who will or won't and knowing this will most likely be an issue for those that do it feels a bit sketchy to me.

 

As a somewhat follow up question for those that would not disclose. If the buyer mentioned they were going to submit it would you say anything?

 

I'd stand by my opinion as given at the time of sale.

 

If it came back trimmed then I'd offer a refund, take a second look at the book, and if I still didn't think it was trimmed.

 

I'd relist it exactly the same way as I had before.

 

Yes.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the record....

 

The person who, in my opinion, is more qualified than anyone on the planet to detect restoration in comic books is Susan Cicconi. There is nobody in the hobby today that has her eye, her experience, and her knowledge.

 

So, if SHE said it was, or was not, resto'd, I would, for me, disclose that. But that is my personal opinion, and would not expect anyone to abide by that for that reason alone.

 

And she does not work for CGC.

 

 

While I love Susan, FYI she misses stuff also. If you go through enough books you WILL miss stuff.

 

Of course. That's my point.

 

[Rip]

For the record....

 

The person who, in my opinion, is more qualified than anyone on the planet to detect restoration in comic books is Susan Cicconi. There is nobody in the hobby today that has her eye, her experience, and her knowledge.

 

So, if SHE said it was, or was not, resto'd, I would, for me, disclose that. But that is my personal opinion, and would not expect anyone to abide by that for that reason alone.

 

And she does not work for CGC.

 

 

While I love Susan, FYI she misses stuff also. If you go through enough books you WILL miss stuff.

 

Of course. That's my point.

 

 

And that point IS a valid one. Everyone misses trimming sometimes!

But, this thread doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside about buying from some of the people here either.

 

How often do false positives happen in your book?

What do you think the odds are that THIS book is unrestored?

I sure as heck wouldn't want to buy it. Would you? Why would you want to defend this kind of selling when the odds are the next person is getting a trimmed book?

 

[jimjum12]

For the record....

 

The person who, in my opinion, is more qualified than anyone on the planet to detect restoration in comic books is Susan Cicconi. There is nobody in the hobby today that has her eye, her experience, and her knowledge.

 

So, if SHE said it was, or was not, resto'd, I would, for me, disclose that. But that is my personal opinion, and would not expect anyone to abide by that for that reason alone.

 

And she does not work for CGC.

 

 

While I love Susan, FYI she misses stuff also. If you go through enough books you WILL miss stuff.

 

Of course. That's my point.

 

 

And that point IS a valid one. Everyone misses trimming sometimes!

But, this thread doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside about buying from some of the people here either.

 

How often do false positives happen in your book?

What do you think the odds are that THIS book is unrestored?

I sure as heck wouldn't want to buy it. Would you? Why would you want to defend this kind of selling when the odds are the person is getting a restored book here?

 

.... he's not defending it, per se. He's only saying that if he honestly believed CGC was wrong (...and they HAVE been...) that he wouldn't feel obligated to include that. It's not the same thing as listing a book that you KNOW is restored and claiming it isn't. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Rip]

But it doesn't make me feel any better about buying from the person either. That's a very reckless road to take with regards to selling. Not one I would like to see others practice.

[Bomber-Bob]

I didn't let CGC finish stabbing it because I didn't want to waste the $60 getting it graded. I called and asked CGC to cancel the sub and cut my losses on the shipping.

 

 

On a tangential note I can't believe CGC didn't charge you. On my first couple PLODS I did exactly the same thing, I called when I saw the PLOD but before it was officially graded. They told me NO WAY would they stop the process. I distinctly remember they said most of the work has been done and I have to be charged. I guess they have changed their policy. Precedent has been set. If your book is PLOD you can now call and get your money back. While obviously, my statement is tongue in cheek I don't like it when CGC makes exceptions like this. You either charge for everyone or no one.

[jimjum12]

But it doesn't make me feel any better about buying from the person either. That's a very reckless road to take with regards to selling. Not one I would like to see others practice.

 

I wouldn't buy a raw from them either (the eBay guy).....since the book is obviously trimmed....... and that's really as far as my influence over the situation can go..... GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[kav]

If you bought a book off the stands and it came back trimmed would you tell the buyer that CGC got it wrong you bought it off the stands-should they be aware that even though it's not trimmed it will come back trimmed?