Sweet 16, Round 8: Amazing Spider-man #252 vs Iron Fist #14

[AlexH]

Today's match features Amazing Spider-man #252 vs Iron Fist #14.

 

Amazing Spider-man #252. Published by Marvel 1984. Written by Roger Stern and Tom DeFalco with art by Ron Frenz.

 

Iron Fist #14. Published by Marvel 1977. Written by Chris Claremont with art by John Byrne.

 

Good luck to both...

 

Next round will start on Monday.

[Wally's Comics]

IF #14 is just a better comic...

 

Sabertooth VS Symbiote?

 

 

Man! Could you imagine a SaberVenom.

Where Sabertooth would of gotten the alien before Eddie...

 

Man that would make a good What If!

 

 

[Norrin_Radd]

.

 

And these two made it to the Sweet 16.

 

 

My vote would be for Iron Fist #14.

 

Sabretooth is only important as Wolverine's mortal enemy. Venom is only important as.............

[Wally's Comics]

don't worry.

 

by the time this gets to the crazy 8 it will be vapor!

 

 

[goldust40]

Iron Fist 14, 'cause I preferred the book. Not much to choose between them, really - both became in the long run psychotic arch-foes with a theatrical streak.

[jordanscott]

ugh...none of the above.

[DiceX]

A cookie cutter "Man-Beast" vs the first appearance of one of the more original villans to come out in 30 years.

No question of my choice. 252 all the way.

[rob_react]

If I had to choose, and I do, I'd say "Black Costume" especially since it might help to finally rid this contest of IF 14.

[Wally's Comics]

I mean really when you talk about book to book.

 

 

The only signifcant aspect 252 has is that it was the first time in ASM period.

 

This wasn't the first apperance of anything other than that...

 

In a way this is like X-men 94 VS Hulk 181

 

Hulk 181 - a Major full apperance...

 

X-men 94 - just second appearances and the fact that the new X crew took over...

 

Which in my view shouldn't place it in the same price league as Giant Sized # 1...

 

but somehow it does...

[rob_react]

I mean really when you talk about book to book.

 

 

The only signifcant aspect 252 has is that it was the first time in ASM period.

 

This wasn't the first apperance of anything other than that...

 

By "it" you mean the black costume? If so, then what you're saying is confusing to me. ASM 252 was very clearly the first appearance of the black costume.

[Wally's Comics]

I mean really when you talk about book to book.

 

 

The only signifcant aspect 252 has is that it was the first time in ASM period.

 

This wasn't the first apperance of anything other than that...

 

By "it" you mean the black costume? If so, then what you're saying is confusing to me. ASM 252 was very clearly the first appearance of the black costume.

 

Does CGC label it so?...

 

I don't know, I don't have one handy...

 

I thought the Very first apperance was Secret Wars #8, eventhough it was released after 252.

 

 

 

If I'm wrong I stand corrected.

 

 

 

[rob_react]

I thought the Very first apperance was Secret Wars #8, eventhough it was released after 252.

 

That makes no sense at all since the question of "first" in this case is so cut and dried. One book (ASM 252) was cover dated May, the other (SW8) was cover dated December in the same year, which came first?

 

By that logic Origin is Wolverine's first appearance.

[Wally's Comics]

I thought the Very first apperance was Secret Wars #8, eventhough it was released after 252.

 

That makes no sense at all since the question of "first" in this case is so cut and dried. One book (ASM 252) was cover dated May, the other (SW8) was cover dated December in the same year, which came first?

 

By that logic Origin is Wolverine's first appearance.

 

This has always been a little fuzzy to me, because of the Marvel timeline...

 

Anybody! Anybody have the guide? What does OS say?

 

I mean, I have heard rumors that Secret Wars was created before 252 and it just was released later...

 

I definately see where you're coming from...

 

Let's let OS decide.

 

 

[supapimp]

ASM 252, when this book came out it caused a serious buzz in collectors. not to mention the AF 15 cover swipe.

[rob_react]

I thought the Very first apperance was Secret Wars #8, eventhough it was released after 252.

 

That makes no sense at all since the question of "first" in this case is so cut and dried. One book (ASM 252) was cover dated May, the other (SW8) was cover dated December in the same year, which came first?

 

By that logic Origin is Wolverine's first appearance.

 

This has always been a little fuzzy to me, because of the Marvel timeline...

 

Anybody! Anybody have the guide? What does OS say?

 

I mean, I have heard rumors that Secret Wars was created before 252 and it just was released later...

 

I definately see where you're coming from...

 

Let's let OS decide.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me? There's a question surrounding May being before December? That's fuzzy? You need Overstreet to tell you that May comes before December? I would think a calendar would suffice.

[rob_react]

I just looked it up because I'm amazed that there is such confusion about this issue which seems so clear to me (and anyone else that was around at the time.) Now I know why, the OS listing is at best, misleading and at worst, wrong. For ASM #252 it says

 

"Spider-Man dons new black costume (5/84) ties with Marvel Team-Up #1 & Spectacular Spider-Man #90 for 1st new costume in regular title (See Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 for debut)"

 

Then in the SW listing it says:

 

"Spider-Man's new black costume explained as alien costume (1st app. Venom as alien costume)"

 

How something could "debut" after more than a half a year of appearing in four monthly books is beyond me. It also doesn't offer the cover date for Secret Wars #8, which is 12/84 or mention that ASM #252 was on the stands before any of the other books- to much fanfare I must add; so there was really no "tie" involved.

 

[Currin Comics]

Guys, 252 is black costume, and ASM 300 is 1st Venom. I just followed your post RR-I realize you know this.

[Wally's Comics]

I just looked it up because I'm amazed that there is such confusion about this issue which seems so clear to me (and anyone else that was around at the time.) Now I know why, the OS listing is at best, misleading and at worst, wrong. For ASM #252 it says

 

"Spider-Man dons new black costume (5/84) ties with Marvel Team-Up #1 & Spectacular Spider-Man #90 for 1st new costume in regular title (See Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 for debut)"

 

Then in the SW listing it says:

 

"Spider-Man's new black costume explained as alien costume (1st app. Venom as alien costume)"

 

How something could "debut" after more than a half a year of appearing in four monthly books is beyond me. It also doesn't offer the cover date for Secret Wars #8, which is 12/84 or mention that ASM #252 was on the stands before any of the other books- to much fanfare I must add; so there was really no "tie" involved.

 

 

 

 

This idea is probibaly one of the most insane of all.

 

I wonder if there has ever been a debate over it?

 

I see your point, totally, but if Marvel say so then it is... right?

 

If they say SW was physically created before 252 then what do you go by?

 

 

Who's to say that these weren't printed and sitting next to the bullpen in the wings at issue

# 251?

 

I don't know and I give-up!

 

It would be cool to have an Iron Clad answer on this.

 

[goldust40]

I just looked it up because I'm amazed that there is such confusion about this issue which seems so clear to me (and anyone else that was around at the time.) Now I know why, the OS listing is at best, misleading and at worst, wrong. For ASM #252 it says

 

"Spider-Man dons new black costume (5/84) ties with Marvel Team-Up #1 & Spectacular Spider-Man #90 for 1st new costume in regular title (See Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 for debut)"

 

Then in the SW listing it says:

 

"Spider-Man's new black costume explained as alien costume (1st app. Venom as alien costume)"

 

How something could "debut" after more than a half a year of appearing in four monthly books is beyond me. It also doesn't offer the cover date for Secret Wars #8, which is 12/84 or mention that ASM #252 was on the stands before any of the other books- to much fanfare I must add; so there was really no "tie" involved.

 

 

 

 

This idea is probibaly one of the most insane of all.

 

I wonder if there has ever been a debate over it?

 

I see your point, totally, but if Marvel say so then it is... right?

 

If they say SW was physically created before 252 then what do you go by?

 

 

Who's to say that these weren't printed and sitting next to the bullpen in the wings at issue

# 251?

 

I don't know and I give-up!

 

It would be cool to have an Iron Clad answer on this.

 

 

I remember buying Secret Wars when it came out, FWIW. My memory of what happened is a bit vague, but I do recall that the SW maxiseries was delayed, and should've been out several months earlier - it was the first "event" series, after all, and was probably originally timed for the Summer to maximize sales.

 

Despite the delay Marvel insisted that the Secret Wars appearance was first in terms of continuity, even though the new costume was old news by the time SW8 arrived. Overstreet doesn't bother with continuity and simply concentrates on which issue was published first, so for them ASM 252 IS the first appearance.

[Kevin Boyd]

Yeah, there is an iron clad explanation.

 

Amazing Spider-Man 252 was published first and is therefore the first appearance of the black costume in continuity.

 

Period.

 

Secret Wars 8 is the story of how Spider-Man got the costume.

 

However, if you really want to get technical, there's an issue of Marvel Age which was published months before ASM252 which has the new costume design in it. (However the spider is red not white).