BB28 from an 8.0 to a 9.0??????????

[Foolkiller]

But Mark, in any legal action wouldn't you have to show that pressing the book in some way changes or alters the value so that it is less than that of an unpressed book in the same condition? So for example an unpressed 9.6 is more valuable and more desirable than a pressed 9.6. Right now, you'd probably have more data to the contrary. People are willing to buy a pressed book.

 

I think you'd have to show some kind of harm or fraud, and in my mind, pressing doesn't constitute that.

 

Again, unless you can show pressing harms the comic book in any way, and that long term ultimately the value is lessened, I cannot see how you would win a suit to force dealers to disclose pressing.

[awe4one]

my problem with this whole scenario is a bit different from what's been said so far; IF the seller of the current CGC 9.0 had, in fact, pressed the book from a CGC graded 8.0 after buying it only 4 months ago, then i'm most pizzed at him asking 5 times the original buying price!!!

 

What if you didn't know about the resub? Would you resent the dealer then? Or just think the price whacked?

 

See..this is what I don't understand in this thread...people will jump all over a Forum member if he publicly ridicules a seller's asking price but in this case it's OK because people know he's flipping it? Seems a little hypocritical...

 

Jim

[FlamingCarrot]

After reading this thread, I wish there was a comic pressing company I could buy stock in.

[jbud73]

I would throw out the comment that it is VERY possible this was not pressed. There are certain people who are willing to take gambles and purchase books that look undergraded, and resubmit them as never having been graded. In a book of this caliber, he may have thought this was a solid 8.5 and could get a nice chunk of change if it came back as such. Maybe he submitted it and it actually came back as a 9.0!

 

One of the very first books I submitted to CGC was an absolutely stunning JIM 88. It came back 9.2. I sold it on ebay for about $1800. However, the person I sold it to cracked it and resubmitted it and got a 9.4. He sold it on ebay 3 months after he bought it from me for about $5000. I don't think any pressing was involved because the book was absolutely gorgeous. I think it was undergraded the first time out and got an appropriate grade on the resub. My only regret is that i didn't have the foresight to do it.

 

I'd be curious to hear from Comgeek before he is tarred and feathered as a presser. Like someone said, he may have pressed it. He may have sold it to someone else who pressed it. Or he (or someone he sold it to) may have done a simple resub and got a generous grade.

 

Perhaps we should hold off on the Spanish Inquisition until some actual FACTS surface.

 

 

I have a question, given this scenerio were't you a tad pissed off. You paid CGC money to professionally assess your comic book and their inconsistency over a period of a few months on a book I'm pretty sure they didn't see a lot of copies of in that time frame left you three thousand dollars poorer.

[Red Hook]

 

My intent is not to turn this into yet another pressing debate, and the ins and outs of disclosure. I don't want to be known as the anti-pressing dealer on a crusade, I want to be known as the dealer who has integrity, can be trusted and, to top it all off, a great inventory!

 

That said, I do think there are legal issues involved with undisclosed pressing. Other hobbies, such as coins and baseball cards, have experienced similar circumstances and the courts and the FTC ultimately stepped in. Perhaps we are not there yet for comics, but these discussions are a start. And if it takes scaring a seller with the possibility of public exposure or legal action into being more honest with potential buyers, so be it.

 

I think the legal issues are non-existant at this point. You have to define them first. I think you have to get a general consensus of some kind that there is something wrong with pressing. You might not like it, I might think poorly of it, but I haven't seen a really solid case made, other than Marnin Rosenberg's editorial a while back discussing the damage done to a pressed book - and as much as I enjoyed reading it, it's still anecdotal. It certainly wasn't a scientific study. And that's exactly what you'll need. Not anecdotes.

 

Look, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but you have to put the horse in front of the cart. First you'll have to get a consensus among the "experts" that pressing is restoraton (got a few years?), then get a few scientific studies done to show that pressing really damages books (not anecdotes), and then somehow get it declared illegal,... then get it declared illegal to press without disclosure. The honor system is not going to work here. I do not see a groundswell of anti-pressing sentiment....yet.

 

Finally, if you do eventually get experts to agree that pressing is restoration, then get it classified as illegal, are you going to go back and try to penalize dealers retroactively?

 

I'm trying to ask some practical practical questions here. Until the "Pressing is Restoration" contingent is strong enough to make a dent in the wallets of dealers, then dealers won't have any incentive to stop.

 

Don't interpret my comments as expressing doubt that things will ever change. I think they will. There will come a time when CGC will have a legitimate competitor who declares (for whatever reason) that pressing is restoration, and develops a failsafe way to detect it, and indicates it on their labels. Until then, dealers (and CGC) can continue to claim that it is an accepted practice and not considered restoration.

[Red Hook]

my problem with this whole scenario is a bit different from what's been said so far; IF the seller of the current CGC 9.0 had, in fact, pressed the book from a CGC graded 8.0 after buying it only 4 months ago, then i'm most pizzed at him asking 5 times the original buying price!!!

 

 

But Harry, just because he's ASKING that kind of money, doesn't mean he's going to get it. Like I said when FFB was marketing his Golden State Sgt. Fury's.......how can you have a problem with any sellers asking price...the market will take care of that. Hopefully, an informed one.

[burntboy]

my problem with this whole scenario is a bit different from what's been said so far; IF the seller of the current CGC 9.0 had, in fact, pressed the book from a CGC graded 8.0 after buying it only 4 months ago, then i'm most pizzed at him asking 5 times the original buying price!!!

 

What if you didn't know about the resub? Would you resent the dealer then? Or just think the price whacked?

 

See..this is what I don't understand in this thread...people will jump all over a Forum member if he publicly ridicules a seller's asking price but in this case it's OK because people know he's flipping it? Seems a little hypocritical...

 

Jim

 

i hear ya.............

 

i'd think the price being asked is way too high normally, BUT, given what folks THINK has happened, i'd be beyond just thinking it was way too high and instead start thinking that it was unconsionable. IMHO.........it ain't like someone bid the book up to $25,000, it;s the initial asking price..........

[jbud73]

my problem with this whole scenario is a bit different from what's been said so far; IF the seller of the current CGC 9.0 had, in fact, pressed the book from a CGC graded 8.0 after buying it only 4 months ago, then i'm most pizzed at him asking 5 times the original buying price!!!

 

 

But Harry, just because he's ASKING that kind of money, doesn't mean he's going to get it. Like I said when FFB was marketing his Golden State Sgt. Fury's.......how can you have a problem with any sellers asking price...the market will take care of that. Hopefully, an informed one.

 

'Hook I do not have a problem with the asking price. I just happened to read this thread after reading the thread about Steve's interview on STL and then the interview itself.

 

After which I had a real problem and have for a while now over the assertion that CGC has somehow and now I'm throwing out the propaganda "Made the back issue market safe for all." "Taken the guess work out of buying back issues" "Allowed the uninformed collector a sense of security and certainty in the product they are purchasing" I am now starting to think in opposite terms.

 

CGC has certainly created the IMPRESSION that all of the above is happening. This is turn has driven the prices up on a lot of merchandise. But I think the slope is now even more slippery, especially when you get to the higher ends of the spectrum. The are many more multiples of guide being paid BUT, there are also factors at play here that not everyone is aware of.

 

So CGC has taken SOME of the guesswork out - psuedo certainty has driven the prices up. There are still large buyer beware factors at play. The net equation results in just as much, if not more risk at the high end.

[jbud73]

I imagine he wouldn't be happy about it. Maybe Steve and Josh could comment.

 

Well ComicLink has viewed this thread

[Red Hook]

 

'Hook I do not have a problem with the asking price. I just happened to read this thread after reading the thread about Steve's interview on STL and then the interview itself.

 

After which I had a real problem and have for a while now over the assertion that CGC has somehow and now I'm throwing out the propaganda "Made the back issue market safe for all." "Taken the guess work out of buying back issues" "Allowed the uninformed collector a sense of security and certainty in the product they are purchasing" I am now starting to think in opposite terms.

 

CGC has certainly created the IMPRESSION that all of the above is happening. This is turn has driven the prices up on a lot of merchandise. But I think the slope is now even more slippery, especially when you get to the higher ends of the spectrum. The are many more multiples of guide being paid BUT, there are also factors at play here that not everyone is aware of.

 

So CGC has taken SOME of the guesswork out - psuedo certainty has driven the prices up. There are still large buyer beware factors at play. The net equation results in just as much, if not more risk at the high end.

 

I agree with just about everything you said. CGC is not a bullet-proof vest. And inadvertantly or not, I think in some ways professional grading has paved the way for new and more aggressive ways of manipulating the market. But I don't think this is news to anyone around here.

[Aman619]

IMO the 8.0 and the new 9.0 are the same book. Leaving aside everything else repeated here about pressing, what CAN be done now is spread the word not to buy the 9.0. And for us to do this every time we see an obvious press and flip. If we make it harder for "whomever" to pull this off, it will be our best shot to make it stop. Perhaps Josh can be prevailed upon to take it down as it hurts hi simage to be hosting an obvious (95%?) fraud).

 

That said , is the book now an 9.0? yeah. But it's now forever more "that 9.0 that used to be an 8.0" as long as we all get the word out, and spotlight it everytime it appears for sale. Esquire, maybe you can lead the charge of awareness by getting flyers to hand out at upcoming shows listing and illustrating similar shams. Put together a team of flyer distributors at all shows.

 

AWARENESS is our best (and up to now ONLY) weapon.

[Ze-man]

I think it is safe to say , over the past year or so many of us have run the gamut on how we percieved, and felt about this topic.

 

Many of those who now realize what the actuality of pressing comics is.. be they..past, present, and or future pressed books. Realize it is too muddled of topic to do nothing more then perhaps change their future buying habits.

 

Those of us that were/are ethically opposed to pressing for greed , have come to accept it as part of todays comic buying experience.

Be aware of what you are buying, and make as informed a decision as you can about what you are spending your money on.

While the playing field has slightly changed recently, that buying strategy has always been sound.

 

I will always be happy to see books like this pointed out.. so everyone is at least made aware of the possiblility the book might have been pressed for profit (PFP)And make a more informed decision about how much the book is actually worth.

 

But the sad reality is , as others have said. What if this information comes to light after you already paid 5x what the book sold for 4 months ago?

Many of us will never have to worry about this because we do not chase books like this. And if I did.. I sure would be more wary about where the book came from.. and try to track its history.

 

These are not witch hunts..but more a way for those concerned to try and keep tabs on those who are trying to turn a quick buck.

No it is not exactly criminal for these sellers to take advantage of the current scenario we now are faced with.. nor is it an unsound business practice.

It is just a reality.

 

But I sure hope in some small way our threads/discussions start to weed out the sellers who get known for doing this , and diminish their return customers. And those that do return.. will start to ask more serious questions.

 

Ze-

[jbud73]

IMO the 8.0 and the new 9.0 are the same book. Leaving aside everything else repeated here about pressing, what CAN be done now is spread the word not to buy the 9.0. And for us to do this every time we see an obvious press and flip. If we make it harder for "whomever" to pull this off, it will be our best shot to make it stop. Perhaps Josh can be prevailed upon to take it down as it hurts hi simage to be hosting an obvious (95%?) fraud).

 

That said , is the book now an 9.0? yeah. But it's now forever more "that 9.0 that used to be an 8.0" as long as we all get the word out, and spotlight it everytime it appears for sale. Esquire, maybe you can lead the charge of awareness by getting flyers to hand out at upcoming shows listing and illustrating similar shams. Put together a team of flyer distributors at all shows.

 

AWARENESS is our best (and up to now ONLY) weapon.

 

I do not want to go on a witch hunt here and start something akin to the Crucible - HOWEVER if disclosure is not forthcoming and CGC has its circular arguement of convenience we must avail to something. The scary thing is that the HG books are more than likely not the big candidates right now. I would think that there is still a bit of gun shyness - which may be waning as we speak. Its the glut of books from $100 - $1000 that are getting a lot of pressing attention I bet.

 

I happen to be in the market for a lot of those books

[Crackandpresstoan11]

One more

 

Comiclink

 

 

Ebay

[Sharkey]

I have a question, given this scenerio were't you a tad pissed off. You paid CGC money to professionally assess your comic book and their inconsistency over a period of a few months on a book I'm pretty sure they didn't see a lot of copies of in that time frame left you three thousand dollars poorer.

 

Yes.

 

But at the same time, I didn't blame CGC or direct my anger at them. Regardless of their rigor, I expect that there is still going to be some imperfect science to grading a comic book. I was more disappointed in myself for not having the gall to go back to them and say "Hey, I think you need to look at this again because this is a REALLY nicer book than a 9.2". Of course, since I don't have a clue as to what their grading criteria were, there was nothing I could stand on to say "this should be a 9.4 instead because of ___." And I figured they got enough people whining about grading. Like I said, it was one of the first books I sent in, and so they were new, and I was new. I was disappointed it only got a 9.2, but I also sold it for far more than I paid for it.

 

But yeah, when I saw the same book in a 9.4 sold for 3k more, Grasshopper learned a valuable lesson that day.

[scourge456789-migration]

One more

 

Comiclink

 

 

Ebay

OH NO !!! Not again !!!

 

Why dont people just not buy from comgeek and comiclink,..and leave it at that ?

 

Live by the sword...die by the sword.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

It sure looks better as a 7.5 than an 8.0.

[jbud73]

I think it is safe to say , over the past year or so many of us have run the gamut on how we percieved, and felt about this topic.

 

Many of those who now realize what the actuality of pressing comics is.. be they..past, present, and or future pressed books. Realize it is too muddled of topic to do nothing more then perhaps change their future buying habits.

 

Those of us that were/are ethically opposed to pressing for greed , have come to accept it as part of todays comic buying experience.

Be aware of what you are buying, and make as informed a decision as you can about what you are spending your money on.

While the playing field has slightly changed recently, that buying strategy has always been sound.

 

I will always be happy to see books like this pointed out.. so everyone is at least made aware of the possiblility the book might have been pressed for profit (PFP)And make a more informed decision about how much the book is actually worth.

 

But the sad reality is , as others have said. What if this information comes to light after you already paid 5x what the book sold for 4 months ago?

Many of us will never have to worry about this because we do not chase books like this. And if I did.. I sure would be more wary about where the book came from.. and try to track its history.

 

These are not witch hunts..but more a way for those concerned to try and keep tabs on those who are trying to turn a quick buck.

No it is not exactly criminal for these sellers to take advantage of the current scenario we now are faced with.. nor is it an unsound business practice.

It is just a reality.

 

But I sure hope in some small way our threads/discussions start to weed out the sellers who get known for doing this , and diminish their return customers. And those that do return.. will start to ask more serious questions.

 

Ze-

 

Couldn't agree more, its still a jungle out there, which is why I HATE some of the CGC propaganda - but this message board and the network of collectors and even just talking to Steve himself (not about grading but trends) has saved me hundreds if not thousands of $$$$. There is no substitute for information and education - a plastic slab cannot supplant that.

[Sharkey]

 

Why dont people just not buy from comgeek and comiclink,..and leave it at that ?

 

Live by the sword...die by the sword.

 

 

Why are Comgeek and Comiclink getting villified? Right now nobody knows if comgeek is the person selling the book using ComicLink. And Comiclink isn't even to blame for anything! They are a medium by which someone can sell their comics. They don't authenticate the CGC grade

 

Jeezus. What's with the freakin' witch hunt mentality?

[scourge456789-migration]

I would have to agree. One can arguably forecast the 'popping of a bubble'. But who knows,..commodities are on a bull run. If all that matters is the label then; )