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BB28 from an 8.0 to a 9.0??????????

Started by rube11,

261 posts in this topic

esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted

 

Why dont people just not buy from comgeek and comiclink,..and leave it at that ?

 

Live by the sword...die by the sword.

 

 

Why are Comgeek and Comiclink getting villified? Right now nobody knows if comgeek is the person selling the book using ComicLink. And Comiclink isn't even to blame for anything! They are a medium by which someone can sell their comics. They don't authenticate the CGC grade

 

Jeezus. What's with the freakin' witch hunt mentality?

 

Yes, everyone should step back a minute until we get the facts straight. I have e-mailed both Comgeek and Comiclink (in the same e-mail) asking the right questions.

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sterlingcomics

sterlingcomics

Posted
Posted

 

Why dont people just not buy from comgeek and comiclink,..and leave it at that ?

 

Live by the sword...die by the sword.

 

 

Why are Comgeek and Comiclink getting villified? Right now nobody knows if comgeek is the person selling the book using ComicLink. And Comiclink isn't even to blame for anything! They are a medium by which someone can sell their comics. They don't authenticate the CGC grade

 

Jeezus. What's with the freakin' witch hunt mentality?

 

Yes, everyone should step back a minute until we get the facts straight. I have e-mailed both Comgeek and Comiclink (in the same e-mail) asking the right questions.

 

Yep, I'm just gonna sit here and I'm sure they will put everything straight. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

popcorn.gif

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
But Mark, in any legal action wouldn't you have to show that pressing the book in some way changes or alters the value so that it is less than that of an unpressed book in the same condition? So for example an unpressed 9.6 is more valuable and more desirable than a pressed 9.6. Right now, you'd probably have more data to the contrary. People are willing to buy a pressed book.

 

I think you'd have to show some kind of harm or fraud, and in my mind, pressing doesn't constitute that.

 

Again, unless you can show pressing harms the comic book in any way, and that long term ultimately the value is lessened, I cannot see how you would win a suit to force dealers to disclose pressing.

 

Consider this:

 

"It is unfair or deceptive to fail to disclose that a comic book has been treated if:

 

(a) The treatment is not permanent. The seller should disclose that the comic book has been treated and that the treatment is or may not be permanent;

 

(b) The treatment creates special care requirements for the comic book. The seller should disclose that the comic book has been treated and has special care requirements. It is also recommended that the seller disclose the special care requirements to the purchaser;

 

© The treatment has a significant effect on the comic book's value. The seller should disclose that the comic book has been treated."

 

The above regulation is real and legally enforceable. In reading it would you think it applies to pressing, particularly in light of ©? I don't believe the legal question would be whether a pressed CGC 9.4 book is the same value as an unpressed CGC 9.4 book. The legal argument would be that the pressing was not disclosed and that the existence of pressing had a significent effect on the book's value. No one can deny that.

 

Now, of course, in the vein of FULL DISCLOSURE, the above regulation does not "yet" apply to comic books. It applies to gemstones. I simply changed the word "gemstone" to "comic book". It is not at all uncommon that a change in practice, whether simply within a community or to be enforced by law, first appears in another hobby area. There are similar examples with the sale of baseball cards as well.

 

I can't provide all details about my legal research on the pressing issue as it is protected by attorney-client privilege, but I trust the above will get people thinking of the future. BTW, the regulation above applies to ALL sellers, not just full-time jewelry merchants.

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
Mark,

 

I disagree. I think that pressing is generally accepted, and I'm one of the people who has repeatedly stated that I could care less if a book is pressed UNLESS someone could show me evidence that pressing the book causes long term damage. I haven't seen anything like that.

 

If any of us could detect a good press job with the naked eye on a regular basis then it would make it a lot easier to call. The problem is, if you weren't the original owner of the book, and it has already been pressed, how do you tell for sure that's it's been pressed?

 

If we start the disclosure process now, will the previously pressed books still be sold as not pressed if nobody can tell for sure?

 

To me, I think this whole pressing nonsense is blown way, way, way, way, way out of proportion. I would rather have it disclosed, but honestly, if it doesn't harm the book, and it doesn't add anything artificial to the book, why should it be that big of a deal. People would like to know, but you aren't going to get the dealer community to fess up because there's too much money at stake. And in this case, it's hard for the consumers to enact change. How are you going to do that? Not buy pressed books. Demand CGC change their policy? What, is everyone going to stop using CGC all of a sudden? Unless it affects their bottom line, no business is going to suddenly alter a practice that has been successful to this point. Since we consumers can't tell with regularity when the book has been pressed I think we exercise very little control over the situation.

 

I wish I still had my Green Hornet #1. That book had been pressed so hard the spine was partially split almost the entire length. Pressing can damage golden age books more than other especially if not done right which the Green Hornet was not. Just a note, I did not have it pressed. I bought the book already graded and unfortunitely didn'5t see the spine until I had the book in hand.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

The legal argument would be that the pressing was not disclosed and that the existence of pressing had a significent effect on the book's value. No one can deny that.

 

 

That's where I disagree. I'm not so sure there is evidence to back that there is a significant effect on the book's value.

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scourge456789-migration

scourge456789-migration

Posted
Posted

Creating artificial high-grade supply is imho truly a problem. If I had a hg book that was uniquely rare and dealers throughout the hobby are simply 'pressing' additional supply for what I paid a premium for,..Id be damned peeved about the dilutive consequence of the action. What I dont understand is why dealers dont care ? Dont they realize they are turning people off to the hobby ?,,..or is the quick cash too much to tturn away from. If I collected HG books,..Id seriously think about liquidation and if I were to consider buying HG books,..Id damn sure consider paying multiples of guide for something that dealers can simply 'churn out with the iron'. My 2 cents.

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

Posted
Posted
I'd be damned peeved about the dilutive consequence of the action. What I dont understand is why dealers dont care ? Dont they realize they are turning people off to the hobby ?

 

I don't think a "long term business plan" is something many dealers consider... especially the new breed of Internet dealers who popped out of the woodwork with pocketfuls of cash to play the comic commodity market. It's a short term "strike while the iron is hot" plan.

 

or is the quick cash too much to turn away from.

 

Yes.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted

Here's a (potentially) worse scenario...

 

What if the book hasn't been pressed? What if it's a simple resub?

 

Would the original seller not have recourse to the law, on the basis that he was shafted by the incompetance and/or discrimination exhibited by CGC? That exactly the same book was determined to be in a certain grade at one point in time and then, less than four months later, it was determined to be in a different (more profitable) condition, without any work being done to it?

 

Bear in mind here that, in the real world, time is only likely to cause deterioration, not improvement.

 

Also bear in mind that, although CGC doesn't 'guarantee' a grade, surely they must have some internal consistancy?

 

Hey, if this has been pressed (and I think it has), this won't apply.

 

But how many other re-subs could it apply to?

 

Just a thought, that I'm sure will be shot down in short order.

 

3....

 

 

2....

 

 

1....

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
Wonder what the 9.4 sold by C.Link went for.

?

 

Technically, Josh/CLink didn't sell it to me. He bid on it at the Heritage auction on my behalf, because the time zone difference made it problematic for me to be there at the floor auction. The price I paid for it at Heritage is posted in their archives.

 

-Tim

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
The legal argument would be that the pressing was not disclosed and that the existence of pressing had a significent effect on the book's value. No one can deny that.

 

 

That's where I disagree. I'm not so sure there is evidence to back that there is a significant effect on the book's value.

 

Perhaps my last message was not clear b/c if it was I don't think you would make this statement. This thread alone proves that there is a signficant effect on a book's value from being unpressed as an 8.0 versus a pressed 9.0. Every little bump in grade has an impact on a book's value, and depending on the book it could mean a difference of tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Now, if you are still referring to whether a never pressed 9.2 has a significant value difference than a pressed 9.2, then I would say the jury is still out on that question. Clearly, to some, there is no difference and no concern. BUT, clearly for others, as again evidenced on this thread, there is a signficant difference.

 

Am I not understanding your disagreement with my statement?

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted

I'd really be surprised if it's Steve Lauterbach who dumped all those BA ASMs and other dupes on the market, unless he's trying to raise some money quickly. He's way too experienced a dealer to not know what the effect of flooding the market would be.

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