BB28 from an 8.0 to a 9.0??????????

[sterlingcomics]

Yeah, what he said. I just took out my frustrations by posting pix

[BassGMan]

I now return you to the same people from four months ago, having the same conversation from four months ago.

 

I agree, there is a whole lot of reiteration on this subject by MANY people. They have every right to repeat themselves as much as they want, no problem there. But I do wonder why people keep repeating themselves.

 

Has anyone here changed their viewpoints on pressing since we delved into this whole debate months ago? And if so, who or what was it that helped to change your mind?

 

Personally pro pressing does not bother me. Sure, I believe disclosing it is a good thing because apparently most others really do care about if a book has been pressed. But my opinion is that even if a book has been proven to be pro pressed, that it is not deserving of a PLOD. Just doesn't seem to be "restored enough" to be deemed restored. But don't get me wrong, a simple dot or two of color touch I don't thing should be PLODed either. To each their own, and that is mine.

[esquirecomics]

I can only answer for myself and say that I would love to see some positive posts about the hobby for a change.

Or at the very least some *new* topic of complaint.

The same old [#@$%!!!], that nobody can do anything about (except whine), for MONTHS on end, gets old.

 

I don't read the *other* message boards, where you get to see the hammer fan club circle jerks. I prefer this board where the collectors seem to have some sense of intelligence.

I pass these threads by for a few weeks, then pop in to see if there is anything new, and there isn't. It's the same exact people, saying the same exact things. It's like "rewind...play...rewind...play".

Yes. It gets on my nerves.

 

I suppose I have the right to feel the way I do, just as you guys have the right to say the same [#@$%!!!] over and over and over and over.

I just feel the need to stop in and say "Get over it, or collect bottle caps" from time to time.

 

I now return you to the same people from four months ago, having the same conversation from four months ago.

 

I don't accept this sentiment at all. For one thing, I find it offensible that simply b/c someone may constructively criticize CGC or voice their opinion about the policies implemented within the hobby, i.e., is pressing restoration, then that person is somehow only saying something negative. To the contrary, I find many of these discussions to be examples of how people want to improve the hobby.

 

There are countless fantastic substantive threads on these boards. Unfortunately, most of them are not in this General Section. Go look at just about 98% of the discussions over in the Golden Age section. The contributors are knowledgable beyond belief. Even where there is disagreement, the discourse is invariably polite and professional unlike here.

 

I was already warned (and I say this in a general manner and not focused specifically at anyone) that the maturity level in this section leaves a lot to be desired when I took someone to task for hijacking a substantive conversation. No doubt I should not even waste my time responding to this, but these types of comments and the annoying posting of irrelevant images is extremely frustrating to those of us who are trying to focus on what you describe as what you would like to see here.

 

If you don't have something to contribute (and by that I do not mean saying "die thread, die thread, die"), then don't waste your time or ours reading what we are posting. Take your mouse, and click elsewhere. Just like when I was a volunteer fireman/medic, and we had to deal with rubber neckers snarling traffic when we were trying to work, MOVE ON PEOPLE.

 

[FlyingDonut]

I can only answer for myself and say that I would love to see some positive posts about the hobby for a change.

Or at the very least some *new* topic of complaint.

The same old [#@$%!!!], that nobody can do anything about (except whine), for MONTHS on end, gets old.

 

I don't read the *other* message boards, where you get to see the hammer fan club circle jerks. I prefer this board where the collectors seem to have some sense of intelligence.

I pass these threads by for a few weeks, then pop in to see if there is anything new, and there isn't. It's the same exact people, saying the same exact things. It's like "rewind...play...rewind...play".

Yes. It gets on my nerves.

 

I suppose I have the right to feel the way I do, just as you guys have the right to say the same [#@$%!!!] over and over and over and over.

I just feel the need to stop in and say "Get over it, or collect bottle caps" from time to time.

 

I now return you to the same people from four months ago, having the same conversation from four months ago.

 

I don't accept this sentiment at all. For one thing, I find it offensible that simply b/c someone may constructively criticize CGC or voice their opinion about the policies implemented within the hobby, i.e., is pressing restoration, then that person is somehow only saying something negative. To the contrary, I find many of these discussions to be examples of how people want to improve the hobby.

 

There are countless fantastic substantive threads on these boards. Unfortunately, most of them are not in this General Section. Go look at just about 98% of the discussions over in the Golden Age section. The contributors are knowledgable beyond belief. Even where there is disagreement, the discourse is invariably polite and professional unlike here.

 

I was already warned (and I say this in a general manner and not focused specifically at anyone) that the maturity level in this section leaves a lot to be desired when I took someone to task for hijacking a substantive conversation. No doubt I should not even waste my time responding to this, but these types of comments and the annoying posting of irrelevant images is extremely frustrating to those of us who are trying to focus on what you describe as what you would like to see here.

 

If you don't have something to contribute (and by that I do not mean saying "die thread, die thread, die"), then don't waste your time or ours reading what we are posting. Take your mouse, and click elsewhere. Just like when I was a volunteer fireman/medic, and we had to deal with rubber neckers snarling traffic when we were trying to work, MOVE ON PEOPLE.

 

 

Oh yeah? Your mother wears army boots!

[Aman619]

hey Mark, hold on. The remark by Darth started off this whole tangent, but it was just a funny joke! But you always write so ponderoulsy and seriously and come across like a scold, that you INVITE comments going the other, lighter way. I thought th esuggestion that the graemlin traders were doing it on putpose to protect CGC... never occurred to me, nor do I think its true. The graemlin guys are just having fun.

 

This subject DOES get old...... even when we come up with new ideas.

[esquirecomics]

I should also say I agree with every one of you about the repetition of posts. I can only speak for myself personally, but I certainly try not to create threads that have already been discussed or repeat comments already made in prior posts. When something new develops on a topic, I will post and, of course, that post may incorporate prior statements, but still there will be something new therein.

[BassGMan]

 

I was already warned (and I say this in a general manner and not focused specifically at anyone) that the maturity level in this section leaves a lot to be desired when I took someone to task for hijacking a substantive conversation. No doubt I should not even waste my time responding to this, but these types of comments and the annoying posting of irrelevant images is extremely frustrating to those of us who are trying to focus on what you describe as what you would like to see here.

 

If you don't have something to contribute (and by that I do not mean saying "die thread, die thread, die"), then don't waste your time or ours reading what we are posting. Take your mouse, and click elsewhere. Just like when I was a volunteer fireman/medic, and we had to deal with rubber neckers snarling traffic when we were trying to work, MOVE ON PEOPLE.

 

 

Well said Mark. And thus why over the last few months I have spent less and less time here and more and more time in Bronze Comics where the maturity level is sky high above Comics General. For breaking news and controversy I come here. For education, fun and sharing ideas with others, I go Bronze.

[THE_BEYONDER]

2 questions that I think need to be addressed are these:

 

1. Is there a correlation between CGC's stance on pressing & the incidence of SCS?

 

2. If the removal of non color-breaking creases is "no big deal", why does CGC severely downgrade for such defects in the 1st place?

[lou_fine]

If the removal of non color-breaking creases is "no big deal", why does CGC severely downgrade for such defects in the 1st place?[/b]

 

I've often wondered about this question myself. CGC basically went against the general marketplace sentiment when they came up with this one since the downgrade for non-colour breaking creases was never this severe. If CGC had simply adopted what was happening in the general marketplace, pressing might not have turned into the controversial issue it has today. But I doubt this since collectors would still be out there trying to squeeze out the last 0.2 points instead of the current 2.0 points from a press job.

 

Conspiracy theorists might even say this was in CGC's plans all along so they could set up a pressing business as an additional stream of revenue. But I strongly doubt this since nobody can really look that far ahead.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Conspiracy theorists might even say this was in CGC's plans all along so they could set up a pressing business as an additional stream of revenue. But I strongly doubt this since nobody can really look that far ahead.

 

Is it really looking ahead though?

 

Conspirists would argue that CGC has been pressing books since it's inception.

 

That's what I was referring to in my 1st question. Obviously books have suffered from SCS since the very 1st slab...and yet...noone ever seemed to complain about it.

 

It is possible that pressing was CGC's solution to post-slabbing damage long before now.

[DiceX]

I don't accept this sentiment at all. For one thing, I find it offensible that simply b/c someone may constructively criticize CGC or voice their opinion about the policies implemented within the hobby, i.e., is pressing restoration, then that person is somehow only saying something negative. To the contrary, I find many of these discussions to be examples of how people want to improve the hobby.

 

If this shot is personal, I can assure you that I've busted CGC's chops more than once.

 

Something that you don't know about me...I had concerns with SCS, and unlike the people person_without_enough_empathying about it, decided to try to *do* something about it. I built a prototype of a slab that wouldn't damage the comic, and sent it and the blueprints to Borock.

I didn't talk about it on the boards. I read the concerns and did what I could to fix it.

I didn't threaten legal action against CGC because they couldn't fix it, I *did* what I could to help.

 

There are countless fantastic substantive threads on these boards. Unfortunately, most of them are not in this General Section. Go look at just about 98% of the discussions over in the Golden Age section. The contributors are knowledgeable beyond belief. Even where there is disagreement, the discourse is invariably polite and professional unlike here.

 

It's professional there because the people interact with the positive *AND* the negative.

I've made several good posts about my stance on pressing, some of them on the human level, and not a single one was even acknowledged by you. You seem like the preacher on his soap box, and the only people you can talk to are your sheep.

 

If you want to *have* a professional conversation, you need to *give* a professional conversation. I have the feeling you can't be bothered with someone with a different opinion than your own.

 

I was already warned (and I say this in a general manner and not focused specifically at anyone) that the maturity level in this section leaves a lot to be desired when I took someone to task for hijacking a substantive conversation. No doubt I should not even waste my time responding to this, but these types of comments and the annoying posting of irrelevant images is extremely frustrating to those of us who are trying to focus on what you describe as what you would like to see here.

 

The people that post here are the same ones that post in the other threads. You reap what you sew, bro.

 

If you don't have something to contribute (and by that I do not mean saying "die thread, die thread, die"), then don't waste your time or ours reading what we are posting. Take your mouse, and click elsewhere.

 

That was a joke.

If there's anything this thread needs AFTER FOUR MONTHS OF THE SAME [#@$%!!!], it's a little humor.

I figured since the same old conversation was going on, then the same old joke was appropriate.

Sorry if you don't have a funnybone. Don't take it out on me.

 

Just like when I was a volunteer fireman/medic, and we had to deal with rubber neckers snarling traffic when we were trying to work, MOVE ON PEOPLE.

 

<--That's another joke, in case you missed it.

 

 

I have nothing against you. I'm sure you want to do what's right for the hobby.

I've posted my thoughts on why your idea won't work. Now be a man and at least consider them.

Threatening legal action against dealers that sign your scarlet letter is not the way to solve the problem. Go back to the drawing board and come up with something new.

 

I've given up trying to have an intelligent conversation with you, with a different opinion. I'm not from your side of the tracks, and I'm obviously not your sheep, so don't bother replying to this.

[esquirecomics]

Oh yeah? Your mother wears army boots!

 

Well, yea. But how did you know?

[esquirecomics]

hey Mark, hold on. The remark by Darth started off this whole tangent, but it was just a funny joke! But you always write so ponderoulsy and seriously and come across like a scold, that you INVITE comments going the other, lighter way. I thought th esuggestion that the graemlin traders were doing it on putpose to protect CGC... never occurred to me, nor do I think its true. The graemlin guys are just having fun.

 

This subject DOES get old...... even when we come up with new ideas.

 

Blame the "ponderously" and "seriously" on law school and the work I do I guess. It is sometimes hard not to be. I certainly do not mean to come across like a "scold". And if my wording is being misinterpreted or misunderstood, or even viewed as if I am trying to be a shepard, whatever that means, then everyone and anyone should call me on it. Unlike some others, I'll respond. And if I don't respond to every suggestion, it may be that I simply have no response. Not every question requires an answer. Nor do I wish to dominate any particular topic, even if it is one I started.

 

Frankly, I have no problem with light banter and a nice jab here and there, even at me personally. Flying Donut does it all the time and I still adore him!!! BTW, Dan, you owe me a phone call or e-mail!

 

I don't believe it was me that made the suggestion about the motive of some of the posters vis a vis supporting CGC. I was merely responding to comments made that appeared to be directed at my personal intent.

 

So I guess the bottom line to ALL of us is lighten up.

[DiceX]

Does this mean we can still be buddies?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Does this mean we can still be buddies?

 

[Darthdiesel]

Obviously, we want to avoid unduly "tagging" books that, in fact, have not been pressed.

 

This simply will not do. This would undermine our current witchhunt to call out all our main competitor dealers and paint their respective inventories with elitist serving stigmas such as pressing and restoration.

 

Why Darth, whatever do you mean by this? Are you insinuating something that casts aspersions? The fact that you are intimating, whether in a joking manner or not, that I am undertaking this effort for the sake of causing harm to competitors is completely irresponsible since you know nothing about me or my intentions. I don't believe our 5 minute conversation at the Tysons Show or anything you have read on these boards that I have posted gives you much credibility in this category.

 

Why Marc, did my sarcasm and poor attempt at being funny strike a nerve or hit too close to home? I care little to nothing regarding your ambitions in this hobby in establishing yourself as the next big dealer on the block - you do not sell anything I would ever want to buy for my personal collection What I do have problems with is some of your misplaced attacks on CGC for how their stance on pressing. You are placing blame or expecting results from a company who can do nothing to affect how this issue is received in the market today. Your posts just incite the insufficiently_thoughtful_person villagers to storm the Frankenstien's castle and try to kill the innocent 'monster'

 

Unlike many of the other dealers on the boards, I will not shy away from confrontation so do think carefully of what you want to say when it concerns me, and if you didn't intend to direct your statement towards me, then you should be more careful in the future in chosing your wording.

 

Is that a veiled threat, counselor? I'm sure we'll be able to clear it up at the next Tyson's if you'd care to. As for my wording, I think it's just fine to convey my intent to these boards. But since it is not clear to you, the statement I make applies to anyone who thinks CGC is wholly responsible for what is going on with pressing in the comics community and should CGC somehow acknowledge pressing is restoration by creating a new label or annotating it on the current label would serve the best interests of the back issue comic market, collector and dealer alike. All these calls for undisclosed pressing lists are irresponsible and WILL inevitably become witchhunts, unfairly targetting specific dealers. While many in your camp choose to ignore detection as a major aspect of this issue, accurate detection is the only way you can justify your proposed lists and subsequent leveled accusations against sellers who don't disclose pressing. short of video proof of a seller pressing his book or the word of an established professional restorer with before and after pictures of their handiwork, all you have is a guess as to whether something was pressed or not. Keep on this line of thinking and you start getting the whole community unnecessarily suspicious about any high grade book that is older than 1975 or sellers of such books. IMO you need 100% proof that a book has been tampered with before you go calling for it to be added onto such a list; otherwise you are just damaging the reputation of a dealer and casting unfounded aspersions on the rest of that dealer's inventory.

 

In fact, to turn the tables, though I haven't had the time or inclination to post this in the Susan C. thread, I do find it quite interesting to see that despite your postings on these pressing threads that you don't want to voice your opinions cause you're so tired of the topic you have some unending amount of energy to intentionally seek them out and do so anyway.

 

Someone's got to add a dose of reality and keep your sheep in check. Otherwise, they'll be applying torches to the inventory of the seller of your latest addition to the undisclosed pressed books list.

 

BTW, I don't know how many times I need to say it, but I have nothing against restoration. Indeed, I will happily buy and sell restored books.

 

But you have something against CGC and those who don't see pressing as restoration, or don't think it's practical to accept CGC's stance on the issue. I never made any comments on your selling of restored books

 

Additionally, I don't find undisclosed pressing to be an "elitist stigma". There is nothing elitist about it. Just greed.

 

it's as elitist as collecting slabs for the number on the label, but I guess you'd attribute that to greed as well. Caring about undisclosed pressing is ridiculous since one CAN NOT prove without a shadow of a doubt that any high grade back issues they bought have not been under a press at any time in their existence. WE are ALL taking it on faith and trust in the person/dealer who sold it to you. And all the litigious talk against these dealers just undermines that trust and in turn will affect the comic market adversely.

[Darthdiesel]

Mark, Darth is only following the unspoken rule that some on these boards follow, of trying to discredit certain people and positions through innuendo, obfuscation and misdirection. Take a look at the most damning threads posted in the past year or two, and there's a clear pattern of "CGC true believers" taking every opportunity to deflate, dilute or in other ways undermine interesting threads, when those threads appear to threaten CGC's standing in the community.

 

I usually pipe up when the thread is going in the direction of conspiracy theory and try to nip the crazy talk in the bud.

[Deathlok]

Mark, Darth is only following the unspoken rule that some on these boards follow, of trying to discredit certain people and positions through innuendo, obfuscation and misdirection. Take a look at the most damning threads posted in the past year or two, and there's a clear pattern of "CGC true believers" taking every opportunity to deflate, dilute or in other ways undermine interesting threads, when those threads appear to threaten CGC's standing in the community.

 

I usually pipe up when the thread is going in the direction of conspiracy theory and try to nip the crazy talk in the bud.

[drbanner]

Mark, Darth is only following the unspoken rule that some on these boards follow, of trying to discredit certain people and positions through innuendo, obfuscation and misdirection. Take a look at the most damning threads posted in the past year or two, and there's a clear pattern of "CGC true believers" taking every opportunity to deflate, dilute or in other ways undermine interesting threads, when those threads appear to threaten CGC's standing in the community.

 

I usually pipe up when the thread is going in the direction of conspiracy theory and try to nip the crazy talk in the bud.

 

[sterlingcomics]

I usually pipe up when the thread is going in the direction of conspiracy theory and try to nip the crazy talk in the bud.

 

exactly. Like I said, there's some nice discussion here, but I look at these things much like DiceX in that I want a solution, but I don't see one readily available. As long as one can benefit financially by being unethical this behavior will unfortunately continue. Just trying to be a realist.

 

I'm all for ways to curb or eliminate the behavior, which I'd like to hear if there are new and fresh ideas...