Curious to read the consistency, fervor, and angst, over THIS "theft" recently!

[spidermanbeyond]

" I've had people swipe my text before, couldn't care less. They were just being lazy. It's almost flattering that they liked my wording."

 

Ok, I confess I am the guy who did the swiping. I did not think it is was big deal as I do it to save time. I 'm glad most you don't think it is a problem. It is the "description" that is being swiped (not the book). Same thing when an artist does a swipe of classic comic cover. I agree swiping of scan is a different story.

 

[spidermanbeyond]

"Well, I swipe text all the time. If somebody is describing something better than me, I have no qualms about swiping it, especially if its something that I don't know anything about. I also have no qualms if people poach my text, what do I care. As long as they are just stealing the description, and not my fees, or links, or anything else, I couldn't care less"

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

[PovertyRow]

Oh yeah - I forgot the idea of text "borrowing". I don;t like it. It suggests many possibilities. Now the less common ones may be this is someone with a learning disability etc....but if that is so they did manage to get onto ebay and go through the process to post their item. If they did it with help from someone else then they could come up with a description with the same help.

 

So overall I think the practice of text "borrowing" is not right. It speaks to the inherent integrity and also to the potential laziness of the seller. I have always held that if a person is selling something in a formal environment like ebay or a flea market, where they register and pay fees to setup shop, then they should have a measure of professionalism. And professionalism includes knowing enough about your product to accurately describe it. It is why I feel no qualm spending $60 for a F/VF Detective 16 or $15 for a first run Classics Illustrated 3 in VG in an antique shop.

[Joanna]

"... I do it to save time."

 

You get to save time, and therefore post more auctions, but the original seller had to spend a great deal of his or her valuable time writing it. Why should you benefit from his labor?

 

To my mind, the writing of the auction can be an integral part of why something does or does not sell. I pay close attention to it, myself, and tend not to buy from people with no communication skills, or who take no time to describe what they are selling (I dislike auctions that spend 1% on what's for sale, and 99% on their 'rules' that all buyers must follow). I always read auctions thoroughly and use that to help me judge what to buy.

 

Now let's say I'm looking for Goofy Guy #1 in 9.6, and I see your auction, and am impressed by your write-up. Next I see the originator's auction -- same issue, same condition -- and I now have to think you're either the same guy posting under two names, or that one of you is a thief. The result is that I won't buy from either, in case I'm buying from a fraud (dishonesty is not my favorite thing in a seller). That means the originator just lost a buyer.

 

-- Joanna

[PovertyRow]

>> and I now have to think you're either the same guy posting under two names, or that one of you is a thief.<<

 

WHOAH!!!! I never considered that aspect of it but but you are DANGED RIGHT on that! Phew!

[Darthdiesel]

Procrustean, just my thoughts and I've expressed my views before.

 

Internet "law" and property rights and ownership are still , in my opinion, not set in stone. And there is no one to police it or oversee its enforcement at this time. There is a huge gray area where "scan theft" and 'description theft' are concerned. If one can not prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, with HARD EVIDENCE (like copyrights or watermarks, not hearsay, or "he posted earlier so it must be his") that they are the initial owners of said scan or text, then it is hard to "convict" someone justly as an offender. It may be simple to accuse them based on what you see or believe, but can not "convict" the accused.

 

That is why I believe in scan and text sharing. I've made it clear that I've always written my own text and darth-clones like to plagarize my style and borrow catch phrases, but always change enough or omit enough so that it is not verbatim. I'm flattered.

 

As for my scans, I don't work hard on them and as long as you don't tie up my bandwidth by linking directly to it, please help yourself to my scans!!! How different can one CGC 9.8 ASM 36 look from another? and who can honestly tell the difference? and who cares? I don't.

 

I started out without a scanner when selling. I borrowed pics and linked off sites, but I always asked first if it was OK. And since it was only from a few (maybe 4) sources, it was manageable. With those sales, I got to buy a new computer with scanner and started messing around on my own. Now I don't feel the need to borrow scans, but I do get lazy at times...I just don't post when not in the mood.

 

Though I do things "legit" now, I do not condemn those who feel the need to borrow a scan or some text, especially from me. I enjoy what I do, my scans take 2 minutes, back and front, from scan to upload on host site. My text is templated and I tweak every auction so it takes me 10 seconds to describe a new item. If it helps other sellers get their goods off, go for it.

 

Joanna, excellent point. More often than not, people buy repetitively from sellers they trust and are familiar with. Some sellers I would buy from "blind" - no scan, no text, no return policy - just what the book is and their asking price,and I'm good to go. For new players, that may be difficult to establish that level of trust so they would be warier of similar auctions with matching scans. But there are usually plenty of the same books in the same grade or condition on ebay at any given time. Having two ids on eBay (though I only have one) has been stated here as "not a crime" and can be used for legit purposes: one buying and one selling. Though the prevalence is for facilitating fraudulent activity or shilling. Maybe one of the similar scans was shared by the original owner with permission, so I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that one is a thief. Very tough call and always fall back on buyer beware.

 

So procrustean, I know the point you were trying to make. Just shrug it off and Fuh ged aboud it !

[spidermanbeyond]

Your points are well taken. By the way, I have already apologize to procrustean. As some people in this post have stated, they could care less is if their text is swiped. I am one of those people. Other people do mind. These forums are for enlightment and to see both sides. If quotation marks are used, is that alright. Don't tell me you need permission to quote someone.

[spidermanbeyond]

Thanks for your opinion, Darth. As always, well thought out and well said. "nuff said".

[PovertyRow]

>>As for my scans, I don't work hard on them and as long as you don't tie up my bandwidth by linking directly to it, please help yourself to my scans!!!<<

 

The real bottom line. If I am buying a book and am using the scan as an example of what the book is, it damned well better be a scan of the book I am buying.

[Darthdiesel]

I send Modern books en masse to CGC...I get back 10 Ultimate Spider-Man # 15's all CGC 9.8...you suggest that I not keep the same scan for each book when they all look the same to me and CGC obviously and the only difference is the bar code #..I'll have to get back to you on that one....straetch that out...my CGC 9.8 can and most of the time looks exactly like other CGC 9.8 USM 15's that others post over time.

[mr_highgrade]

I once sold a CGC mid grade Spidey to someone on ebay,(I don't recall his name) the guy left me a positive feedback saying how happy he was to finally complete his run on Amazing Spider-man.

Not a week goes by, that I notice the same graded book up for sale on ebay. When I take a look to see who was selling it, I notice it was the same ebayer who bought it from me!

Now here's the kicker, not only did he use my excact text to list the book, but he sold it for $20 more at BIN!

To be honest, I couldn't care less, in fact I had to laugh.

[notch_top]

Bryan (AKA CRUSTY)

 

I would be very CAREFUL about what BS you throw in this forum.

 

Nuff Said

[PovertyRow]

>>I get back 10 Ultimate Spider-Man # 15's all CGC 9.8...you suggest that I not keep the same scan for each book when they all look the same to me and CGC obviously and the only difference is the bar code #.<<

 

I sell 11x14 lobby cards mainly on ebay. It takes TWO scans, bringing those two scans into a graphics prgram. Stitching them together, saving as a final image, and remembering to mention in the description that "the scan was stitched from 2 images so if you see a vertical line going through the "C" in DRACULA, that is a part of the stitching."

 

It takes you about 10 seconds to scan your book. About 3 seconds to save it with a name. Two seconds to copy that name (unless you type really slow, which is not apparant from your postings here). One second to paste that name into ebay. What is the big deal about showing people who may be spending hundreds of dollars exactly what they are spending their money on?

 

Considering the number of posts here about CGC "differences" in grades, let me ask you this.Why should you not show a person who is going to send you their money see exactly what they are sending you their money for?

[Joanna]

That's a good point, Darth. The one thing I can see separating stealing a scan from someone else and reusing a scan when you have a bunch of books that appear identical is that you can physically hold the books, see that they're identical, and go from there. If one of those 9.8's had a crack in the case that was visible, or was a slightly different color saturation or something (believe me when I say that 9.8 is not something I'm familiar with, since I deal mainly with low to mid-grade silver age DCs) then I assume you would scan that book uniquely, to show the variation. For example, someone showed a book on another thread that had a very high grade, but was off-center. If one of your books was a 9.8 but off-center, and that defect might sway a buyer, would it be right to use one of your perfect scans to sell that book?

 

I would also assume you wouldn't write in your auction "scan is the actual book you're bidding on" or words to that effect, if you were using one scan for all of your 9.8s.

 

I guess I'm just saying that it's a very educated re-use when you've done the actual scanning. And the importance of scan theft is far greater when the book is ungraded, in different graded condition than the label, shows a book with unique quality (like unusually good color, centerdness, etc.), or isn't just one of many at the same grade.

 

Perhaps I'm being swayed by all the threads that say "this book doesn't like a 9.x!" or "why is this perfect copy an 8.5?" and so forth. There appears to be variation in grading.

 

-- Joanna

[Darthdiesel]

Maybe this will answer you and povertyrow's concerns..

 

I am one of those crazy sellers with a money back guarantee on satisfaction. I know my CGC serial numbers so no one can do the switcheroo that way. I scan all my ungradeds hi-res and keep them on disk so I can tell if buyers will switch books and return...so let them spend hundreds...I guarantee satisfaction or money back...and I file for the FVCR fee refund if returned...I have had one book returned for replacement in 3 years on ebay...holofoil cover dinged in transit by post office, uninsured, but I still replaced it...made the buyer very happy and I incurred shipping costs all on me...

 

For CGC books, If there is a crack in the Case it would be noted and if it arrives cracked, it did not leave me in that manner, I'll send in for reholdering.

[Darthdiesel]

What is the big deal about showing people who may be spending hundreds of dollars exactly what they are spending their money on?

 

Obviously you have not looked at my auctions...I don't believe anyone is spending $100s on my auctions of reused CGC 9.8 USMs...i've gotten lucky at times but all high value items are scanned individually. I too have time constraints, and family obligations that hold me back from becoming the scanning maniac that I was destined to be.

[Joanna]

Darth, I don't really have any concerns about you. I was trying to say that when you do the scanning yourself, and have more than one book that looks identical, then I understand it. You can physcially hold the book and see it's identical. End of story. Someone who steals a scan, can't.

 

And money-back guarantees go a long way, as well. I try to catch every flaw in my comics, but it's easy to miss something. I always let my customers know that if they find something, to tell me and I'll make it right. I just had that happen, actually. The buyer found something, so I refunded his money and told him to keep the book. In that case, it was the prudent thing to do ($5 book, one of my regulars). I'm not out to rip anyone off, and you aren't either, that's obvious.

 

To throw something else in the mix, I just sold a TV prop for over $350, while all the other props were going for around $25 or so. The only real difference was my write-up and scans. That's how I know that they're important.

 

-- Joanna

[blowout]

"The only real difference was my write-up and scans. That's how I know that they're important."

 

.....its all in the advertising.................

 

[Joanna]

Damn straight, blowout! It's the sell, baby, the sell!

[PovertyRow]

>>Obviously you have not looked at my auctions...I don't believe anyone is spending $100s on my auctions of reused CGC 9.8 USMs<<

 

Hundreds of dollars - ok - I retract that - simply any dollars a bidder parts with. They are THEIR dollars. Why should any bidder have to bid on a piece with an image they are not actually buying? The ramifications are considerable. I could say "Well, my Marvel Superheroes #1 9.4 is the same as that OTHER 9.4 - I thinik I will just grab their scan." And people wonder why I get ticked when a major restoration piece and a simple dry cleaning are seen as the same. If you have time to sell you have time to scan. Plain and simple.