theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Just now, @therealsilvermane said: Wonder Woman trilogy. Fine. Put her in an Avengers movie? Fail. Well, she's not an Avenger, so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: It's Marvel who has captured the world's imagination. Darkseid who? Meanwhile, Thanos memes abound everywhere. Honestly I’m not sure of how accurate that is. You could be right. Is Marvel more popular today because of the MCU? Looking at the last ten years alone starting at 2010, Marvel has put out 34 films to DC’s 12. I really enjoyed 15 of those 34 in the MCU and 5 of the 12 for DC. Luckily I don’t have to choose a brand. If I did, I would have to choose the banner that Batman falls under. theCapraAegagrus and Bosco685 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: Wonder Woman trilogy. Fine. Put her in an Avengers movie? Fail. "...Put her in an Avengers movie..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Wait a minute, how did we get here? I’d love to talk and speculate about this film. Let’s save the MCU VS DCU for its own thread. That could be fun, someone start it. theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: You mean... Like Zack Snyder...? He was producing every movie for Worlds of DC. He had a specific vision. Unlike Disney, WB wasn't interested in such a thing. No. I like Snyder's movies, but he still has a style that does not connect with the broader public across all age groups. Nolan was able to do that with Batman, but could he do it across multiple properties and then coordinate big events while still being a writer and director? Likely not. You need someone like Feige who is not writing or directing, but acting like more of an editor. Geoff Johns was supposed to be that for the WB/DC properties, but has failed to duplicate that. The lack of cohesiveness was also due to the meddling of DC corporate types, I guess, but I don't think DC has a plan in place for their movie properties like Marvel does. They seem to be able to do it on the TV side, so it should be something they can pull together on the big screen as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: So it comes across close-minded to state the general audience have moved on from DC and only the MCU is doing it right. Even backing a statement like that may come across as ignoring such details. No matter how many billion dollar hits our beloved MCU has achieved. I am not ignoring the fact the DC likely did fine with the BvS and Justice League films financially (as I have argued in the past), but the fact is that the DCU has failed at presenting a cohesive and intertwined universe on the big screen. Given time I am certain they will figure it out, but right now that side of the operation is a mess compared to animation and TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Just now, kimik said: No. I like Snyder's movies, but he still has a style that does not connect with the broader public across all age groups. Nolan was able to do that with Batman, but could he do it across multiple properties and then coordinate big events while still being a writer and director? Likely not. You need someone like Feige who is not writing or directing, but acting like more of an editor. Geoff Johns was supposed to be that for the WB/DC properties, but has failed to duplicate that. The lack of cohesiveness was also due to the meddling of DC corporate types, I guess, but I don't think DC has a plan in place for their movie properties like Marvel does. They seem to be able to do it on the TV side, so it should be something they can pull together on the big screen as well. I don't think it's realistic to expect Worlds of DC to copy the MCU. Don't you think that would be doubly-boring? I certainly do. He got cues from the Nolan Bros early-on. This is the result of a Dark Knight-esque cinematic universe. It gets complicated when you introduce superheroes. Snyder helped write and produce Wonder Woman. People of all ages seemingly liked it. I simply didn't like the generic 3rd Act CGI villain, but, it was still well-received. Snyder was literally the only person at DC with a plan. I personally liked it. I get what you're saying, but I don't want DC to copy Marvel. Not their method of production, or their 'tone', or anything really. I (mostly) like the multitude of differences. If The Snyder Cut can flesh-out Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg enough - then I'll consider Snyder's plan a "success". We'll find out in a year or so. And, if we've learned anything from The Monster-verse (Godzilla or The Mummy) and Star Wars, it's that a Producer in Kevin Feige's role does not automatically equal success. His Infinity Saga is special. Copying the blueprint is a fool's errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, kimik said: I am not ignoring the fact the DC likely did fine with the BvS and Justice League films financially (as I have argued in the past), but the fact is that the DCU has failed at presenting a cohesive and intertwined universe on the big screen. Given time I am certain they will figure it out, but right now that side of the operation is a mess compared to animation and TV. Oh, I totally recognize WB tripped all over its original 2015-2016 announcement by Kevin Tsujihara (then WB Entertainment CEO) there was going to be this aligned DC universe with films like Cyborg and Green Lantern. The studio got so spooked it changes too rapidly to make the final result sensible to a joined universe. And yet it turned out massive hits like Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Joke despite its tampering. Nutty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: And, if we've learned anything from The Monster-verse (Godzilla or The Mummy) and Star Wars, it's that a Producer in Kevin Feige's role does not automatically equal success. His Infinity Saga is special. Copying the blueprint is a fool's errand. I have to agree. What the MCU team and Kevin Feige were able to accomplish is so unique and recognized now. 1) If you copy it and succeed, then you are just 'ripping off Marvel' 2) If you fail at copying it, then you are 'the loser at achieving Marvel's greatness' Fox was starting to do something unique with Deadpool and Logan in going down the R-Rated path that Disney couldn't play in comfortably. And with Joker that also proved out the potential R-Rated unique niche market to differentiate itself. theCapraAegagrus and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I don't think it's realistic to expect Worlds of DC to copy the MCU. Don't you think that would be doubly-boring? I certainly do. He got cues from the Nolan Bros early-on. This is the result of a Dark Knight-esque cinematic universe. It gets complicated when you introduce superheroes. Snyder helped write and produce Wonder Woman. People of all ages seemingly liked it. I simply didn't like the generic 3rd Act CGI villain, but, it was still well-received. Snyder was literally the only person at DC with a plan. I personally liked it. I get what you're saying, but I don't want DC to copy Marvel. Not their method of production, or their 'tone', or anything really. I (mostly) like the multitude of differences. If The Snyder Cut can flesh-out Aquaman, The Flash, and Cyborg enough - then I'll consider Snyder's plan a "success". We'll find out in a year or so. And, if we've learned anything from The Monster-verse (Godzilla or The Mummy) and Star Wars, it's that a Producer in Kevin Feige's role does not automatically equal success. His Infinity Saga is special. Copying the blueprint is a fool's errand. I am not saying to copy the Marvel style of films, which would be a mistake IMHO, but the DCU needs someone with a vision and a well thought out plan. Right now that is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, kimik said: I am not saying to copy the Marvel style of films, which would be a mistake IMHO, but the DCU needs someone with a vision and a well thought out plan. Right now that is lacking. It's still a fool's errands. Snyder might be the best that they could have. His plan makes sense (to me). I would've tweaked a few things, like doing Doomsday in Justice League 1 instead of BvS, but is there another better Producer than Zack besides Feige? I'd like to live in the alternate multiverse where Snyder's plan doesn't get sabotaged by studio interference. Would love to see how that played out. I see it now. Justice League: Crisis being released in 2021, featuring Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, and Atom all going toe-to-toe with Apokolips and Darkseid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I see it now. Justice League: Crisis being released in 2021, featuring Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel SHAZAM, and Atom all going toe-to-toe with Apokolips and Darkseid... Fixed it for you. The name's taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said: It's still a fool's errands. Snyder might be the best that they could have. His plan makes sense (to me). I would've tweaked a few things, like doing Doomsday in Justice League 1 instead of BvS, but is there another better Producer than Zack besides Feige? I'd like to live in the alternate multiverse where Snyder's plan doesn't get sabotaged by studio interference. Would love to see how that played out. I see it now. Justice League: Crisis being released in 2021, featuring Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, and Atom all going toe-to-toe with Apokolips and Darkseid... They can still go forward with a new plan, but they need to start tying things together now and likely launch it off of Aquaman 2, Flash, Suicide Squad 2 and a new Superman Film. WW 84 is already done so that is too late, but maybe they can weave something in with the Batman movie at the end in a credits/post-credits scene that sets things up for the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 If I was the EP for Worlds of DC, I would've done Doomsday in JL, and had Martian Manhunter resurrect Superman in Man of Steel 2 to have the duo battle and defeat BrainIAC. Bosco685 and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: Fixed it for you. The name's taken. It was taken well-before that D-lister stole it. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 minute ago, kimik said: They can still go forward with a new plan, but they need to start tying things together now and likely launch it off of Aquaman 2, Flash, Suicide Squad 2 and a new Superman Film. WW 84 is already done so that is too late, but maybe they can weave something in with the Batman movie at the end in a credits/post-credits scene that sets things up for the future? I wish. I thought they were gonna announce a sequel at Fandome. They need to get Green Lantern Corps off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: If I was the EP for Worlds of DC, I would've done Doomsday in JL, and had Martian Manhunter resurrect Superman in Man of Steel 2 to have the duo battle and defeat BrainIAC. They did a great job with Brainiac on Krypton. He would have been a cool villain on the big screen. Maybe the big Phase 2 threat after dealing with Darkseid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, kimik said: They did a great job with Brainiac on Krypton. He would have been a cool villain on the big screen. Maybe the big Phase 2 threat after dealing with Darkseid? I wonder if the big bois upstairs (AT&T) will wait for the reception to The Snyder Cut before making any more decisions? If it's a bonafide hit, do they go for the resolution with Darkseid and Justice League 2? Do they bring Snyder back to produce? Do they just continue to throw movies at the wall under the same cinematic universe without a roadmap? There's a lot of unanswered questions, for sure. If we wanna make any comparisons; BrainIAC could put Ultron to shame - because, while the latter was voiced/acted well by Spader, he was definitely underwhelming in how he impacted the MCU. The loss of Quicksilver wasn't a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, kimik said: the DCU has failed at presenting a cohesive and intertwined universe on the big screen. Given time I am certain they will figure it out, but right now that side of the operation is a mess compared to animation and TV. You can get away with a lot in cartoons. It's doing it in live action and having today's audience take you seriously that it gets tricky. I posted a little further up that I don't think it's in DC's DNA to create a cohesive interwined continuous universe whereas Marvel Comics was built on that foundation. Sure, DC created Justice League of America and the Brave and the Bold comics series. But those DC comics of the 50's through the mid-80's weren't really written to be one big universe. Many of the characters had their own fictional city. Marvel Comics, on the other hand, all took place in the "real" world of New York City, Westchester County, or other real part of America. Stan Lee wrote these comics like one big soap opera adventure with characters regularly spilling into each other's adventures because they all lived in the same place. DC's world became such a mess storywise and business-wise that they had to create an event, Crisis on Infinite Earths, to try to fix it. But even after that, DC's biggest critical hits were still stories that existed in their own world, like Dark Knight Returns or All-Star Superman. Meanwhile, Marvel Comics had by then completely intertwined their heroes into one world and have had several successful crossover events. The interconnected soap opera style of storytelling in Marvel was successfully pioneered by Stan Lee in the 60's. All the heroes live in one world, the same world as us. What's more, his characters were more interesting than the suits. Peter Parker or the Richards' family problems were the heart of those early stories. DC lacked such humanity, their main heroes being gods or billionaires where the true identity was the hero, not the mild mannered reporter or the lazy trust fund heir. Peter actually was the mild mannered reporter, and that's far more interesting. That legacy was continued with Keven Feige and he took it another level by casting more regular looking people, like Paul Rudd or Robert Downey Jr. or Brie Larson, in these "human" roles. The importance of this to continuous storytelling is that, long after the novelty of the suit or the superpower has passed, we still want to follow the story of the "real" person under the suit. With that in mind, it's no surprise to me that Marvel has succeeded with the interconnected continuous universe and DC hasn't. Marvel figured out a long time ago that it's the people, not the super-identity, that makes it work. And that's why I'm not sure DC can ever really succeed at a cohesive universe. Edited August 25, 2020 by @therealsilvermane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Just a regular person. Nothing to see here... Quote Actor / Mushroom Forager / SCUBA Certified Diver / Scientific American Subscriber / Dog Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
