What's stopping publishers from fiddling with printing identification...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Disclaimer: I'm not a printer, nor do I know (that) much about printing. So, anyone who is more of an expert, feel free to chime in.

 

The recent questions about Animosity have got me thinking about this. What's to stop publishers from fiddling with printing id, that is, "first printing, second printing, etc."...?

 

We know that not marking later printings has happened since the dawn of comics (like Superman #1.)

 

But for most of the history of the industry, the only printing WAS the first printing, and reprints, when they started up again in the 60's in earnest, were packaged in entirely new formats. After the very early days, and until Star Wars #1, there wasn't (much of) a need to immediately reprint "hot books", because that concept didn't exist, functionally, until the 70's.

 

Also, since printing was controlled by a few companies like Eastern Color and World Color, since printing was very expensive, it wasn't likely that a publisher could tell a printer to reprint anything without it being noted in some way, but even less likely that there would be a need.

 

However...there have been rumors of unmarked reprints for books like Howard the Duck #1, so perhaps it wasn't as odd as all of that.

 

By the 90's, books were starting to sell out at the distribution level, but publishers were pretty faithful about marking later printings. By the late-90's, it was, again, no longer an issue, as first printings more than covered demand.

 

So. We arrive at 2016, and for the past 10-15 years or so, print runs have gotten so miniscule that later printings have become commonplace...and publishers like DC, Marvel, Image, et al, have been...apparently...very diligent about noting those differences (and, indeed, it would be a scandal if one of the big publishers was found to be reprinting "first printings.")

 

But, with the massive leaps in technology, and the ever-decreasing costs in self-publishing and printing....what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing?

 

Who would know? How would a publisher be accountable? "Oh, look, we had anticipated demand, so we had an additional 10,000 copies run at the same time."

 

And, with the speed of business these days, if a 10,000 copy run is done on a Thursday (piece of cake to do), and another 5,000 copies are printed the next Thursday (still a piece of cake)...are they all "first printings"...?

 

 

Have I missed anything? Feel free to chime in.

[Kyle R.]

"what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing? "

 

This happens now.

 

Publishers always over print.

[RockMyAmadeus]

"what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing? "

 

This happens now.

 

Publishers always over print.

 

"Overprinting" isn't the same thing as "reprinting."

[jsilverjanet]

"what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing? "

 

This happens now.

 

Publishers always over print.

 

"Overprinting" isn't the same thing as "reprinting."

 

Didn't the Humans book get reprinted but didn't note which were 1st vs 2nd (or subsequent printings)?

[Kyle R.]

"what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing? "

 

This happens now.

 

Publishers always over print.

 

"Overprinting" isn't the same thing as "reprinting."

 

Dont mistake the two. Publishers won't ever say they overprint.........

[RockMyAmadeus]

"what's to stop any publisher from printing up a "new batch" of a hot book, and just pretend it's a first printing? "

 

This happens now.

 

Publishers always over print.

 

"Overprinting" isn't the same thing as "reprinting."

 

Dont mistake the two. Publishers won't ever say they overprint.........

 

Not in dispute, but that's not the issue at hand.

[fastballspecial]

If they can't see the train coming let it run them over.

 

Honestly our industry is infested currently. Some of them know so

little about the hobby or its history they don't even get their speculation

posts right.

 

[porcupine48]

it is out there.

[Lethal_Collector]

I think the answer to your question, RMA is nothing, except public backlash when/if they get caught somehow. Printing-wise no one could tell, but rather I'd suspect someone would brag about it to someone else who'd be a whistle blower.

 

Or its already happening and we are all suckers for it.

 

 

Jerome

[maraxusofkeld]

Wasn't there an account, on here, that lower level Image employees were selling "rare" variants at conventions for huge mark ups back in the early 90's? This topic reminds me of this, if they reprint and have employees sell at cons, posing as normal folks.

[Aweandlorder]

I think the answer to your question, RMA is nothing, except public backlash when/if they get caught somehow. Printing-wise no one could tell, but rather I'd suspect someone would brag about it to someone else who'd be a whistle blower.

 

Or its already happening and we are all suckers for it.

 

 

Jerome

 

What is this public backlash you speak of?

This market is in such a state of confusion right now that EVEN IF ANY publisher came out and admit they have JUST re-printed a "rare" modern book without such notification, dumb flippers would run and buy it and dismiss any outcry accusing them of fraud and wrong doing.

 

#marvel #5below #idrinkyourmilkshake

[ygogolak]

Wasn't there an account, on here, that lower level Image employees were selling "rare" variants at conventions for huge mark ups back in the early 90's? This topic reminds me of this, if they reprint and have employees sell at cons, posing as normal folks.

 

What rare variants were available in the early 90's? Only thing I could possibly see would be Spider-Man #1 Platinum.

[markseifert]

 

Who would know? How would a publisher be accountable? "Oh, look, we had anticipated demand, so we had an additional 10,000 copies run at the same time."

 

Generally speaking, IMO... The major North American printers who print comics -- Transcontinental and RR Donnelly -- have reached relatively far down the list of top 25ish publishers and are going to cover a large portion of the market at this point (they've pursued smaller comic accounts as the print market in other industries has softened), AND they are both rather enormous corporate entities who bring a lot of attention to bear on each account, due to the fact that even a relatively small comic account represents a fairly big dollar amount worth of printing during the course of a year.

 

These guys also tend to be way more detail-oriented than you'd think, because if a job gets on the press with an error, it's a big headache for everyone involved. Anyway, I think... very probably... your rep would point out the "error" and suggest it be fixed.

[Lethal_Collector]

I think the answer to your question, RMA is nothing, except public backlash when/if they get caught somehow. Printing-wise no one could tell, but rather I'd suspect someone would brag about it to someone else who'd be a whistle blower.

 

Or its already happening and we are all suckers for it.

 

 

Jerome

 

What is this public backlash you speak of?

This market is in such a state of confusion right now that EVEN IF ANY publisher came out and admit they have JUST re-printed a "rare" modern book without such notification, dumb flippers would run and buy it and dismiss any outcry accusing them of fraud and wrong doing.

 

#marvel #5below #idrinkyourmilkshake

 

The backlash from the public, assuming there is any. But you could be right, with this industry people may just be like, 'a'ite cool, I'll get that book from you, THX.'

 

 

Jerome

[Brock]

Wasn't there an account, on here, that lower level Image employees were selling "rare" variants at conventions for huge mark ups back in the early 90's? This topic reminds me of this, if they reprint and have employees sell at cons, posing as normal folks.

 

What rare variants were available in the early 90's? Only thing I could possibly see would be Spider-Man #1 Platinum.

 

Ash cans, museum editions, and platinum editions spring to mind...

[ygogolak]

Wasn't there an account, on here, that lower level Image employees were selling "rare" variants at conventions for huge mark ups back in the early 90's? This topic reminds me of this, if they reprint and have employees sell at cons, posing as normal folks.

 

What rare variants were available in the early 90's? Only thing I could possibly see would be Spider-Man #1 Platinum.

 

Ash cans, museum editions, and platinum editions spring to mind...

 

Have those not proven to be hard to find?

[THB]

If they can't see the train coming let it run them over.

 

Honestly our industry is infested currently. Some of them know so

little about the hobby or its history they don't even get their speculation

posts right.

 

This post is correct.

Every 90's collection I have looked at recently is overstock from some card shop that closed. I believe its the same people back again. Even the spec podcasts I listen to cant get little details like titles and issue numbers right.

[awakeintheashes]

 

Who would know? How would a publisher be accountable? "Oh, look, we had anticipated demand, so we had an additional 10,000 copies run at the same time."

 

Generally speaking, IMO... The major North American printers who print comics -- Transcontinental and RR Donnelly -- have reached relatively far down the list of top 25ish publishers and are going to cover a large portion of the market at this point (they've pursued smaller comic accounts as the print market in other industries has softened), AND they are both rather enormous corporate entities who bring a lot of attention to bear on each account, due to the fact that even a relatively small comic account represents a fairly big dollar amount worth of printing during the course of a year.

 

These guys also tend to be way more detail-oriented than you'd think, because if a job gets on the press with an error, it's a big headache for everyone involved. Anyway, I think... very probably... your rep would point out the "error" and suggest it be fixed.

Good post. Thanks for the insight.

[markseifert]

Good post. Thanks for the insight.

 

The thing others have mentioned in the thread re printer employees trying to sell a few books at local cons and the like was historically (and by 'historically', I really mean 1990ish - early 2000s) the greater concern. It invariably got back to the publisher (or the exclusive seller/retailer) and was dealt with quickly.

 

And again... pubs understand this market segment and its concerns to a greater extent than you might think, and take such things very seriously. I have direct knowledge of an incident in the early 90s where printer employees were walking rare variants out the back door and trying to move them to retailers. When the publisher was informed, they contacted the fbi. The fbi placed an agent undercover in a store where I worked, and when the transaction concluded, a team of agents, guns drawn, apprehended the seller. We later heard he took a plea rather than stand trial.

 

One of the more exciting times I spent working the counter at a comic shop, lemme tell you... ... but the point is, it was taken seriously by everyone involved.

 

***

 

The thing RMA mentioned at the top re going back to press within a few days -- practically speaking, it's hard to imagine a scenario where that would come up. Press to in-store is generally 3 weeks plus or minus 1 week. Even now, it takes time to get the press time, get stuff on a truck, get it to diamond, let diamond move through their system,etc. When you see a fast 2nd print announcement from a pub, it's because they saw it coming via advance reorders and got the wheels in motion.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Good post. Thanks for the insight.

 

The thing others have mentioned in the thread re printer employees trying to sell a few books at local cons and the like was historically (and by 'historically', I really mean 1990ish - early 2000s) the greater concern. It invariably got back to the publisher (or the exclusive seller/retailer) and was dealt with quickly.

 

And again... pubs understand this market segment and its concerns to a greater extent than you might think, and take such things very seriously. I have direct knowledge of an incident in the early 90s where printer employees were walking rare variants out the back door and trying to move them to retailers. When the publisher was informed, they contacted the fbi. The fbi placed an agent undercover in a store where I worked, and when the transaction concluded, a team of agents, guns drawn, apprehended the seller. We later heard he took a plea rather than stand trial.

 

One of the more exciting times I spent working the counter at a comic shop, lemme tell you... ... but the point is, it was taken seriously by everyone involved.

 

***

 

The thing RMA mentioned at the top re going back to press within a few days -- practically speaking, it's hard to imagine a scenario where that would come up. Press to in-store is generally 3 weeks plus or minus 1 week. Even now, it takes time to get the press time, get stuff on a truck, get it to diamond, let diamond move through their system,etc. When you see a fast 2nd print announcement from a pub, it's because they saw it coming via advance reorders and got the wheels in motion.

Or, potentially, that the publisher went ahead and made a planned "second" print as part of the original run, because variant collectors and reprint collectors are a thing.