CGC et al To Aggressively Defend Against Lawsuit Filed In Pennsylvania 11 11

[telerites]

As a legal lay person what I want to know is it possible that anyone gets the chair for this?

 

 

 

Yes...but it's this kind of chair.

 

 

That reminds me of that mind altering chair in the Star Trek episode where wacky doctor brainwashes Kirk into falling madly in love with the girl he was with.

[namisgr]

As a legal lay person what I want to know is it possible that anyone gets the chair for this?

 

 

 

Yes...but it's this kind of chair.

 

 

That reminds me of that mind altering chair in the Star Trek episode where wacky doctor brainwashes Kirk into falling madly in love with the girl he was with.

 

Where do I put my beer?

[whisp]

As a legal lay person what I want to know is it possible that anyone gets the chair for this?

 

 

 

Yes...but it's this kind of chair.

 

 

That reminds me of that mind altering chair in the Star Trek episode where wacky doctor brainwashes Kirk into falling madly in love with the girl he was with.

 

Where do I put my beer?

 

No drinking and driving!

[Tony S]

CGC brings in top dollar for a seller and piece of mind for a buyer. I find this suit meaningless.

 

My layman's understanding of a damages suit is that the plaintiff has to prove both that they were unfairly treated AND that they were damaged by such behavior.

 

The plaintiff's filing goes that CGC is singling out just their books and restoration techniques AND that CGC has a dominant, near monopoly in the field of grading comics....

 

In this situation, the existence of viable competition is actually a GOOD thing for CGC. Much like Microsoft was glad to have Apple around when the Justice Dept was hounding them for using their monopoly in operating system to run competitors in other areas MS wanted to do out of business. Part of their response was "what monopoly? Apple is doing great...."

 

So while I understand that this is a CGC supported forum and it's used by a lot of collectors that could properly be called CGC supporters and fans - those who have expressed similar opinions as above - and I don't mean to single out this post -

would NOT BE helpful witnesses to CGC. You only reinforce the idea that CGC is all that matters in graded comics. IF that is a given, all the plaintiffs have to prove is CGC was treating them unfairly, singling out their books.

 

But if CGC has legitimate competition, then plaintiffs also have to prove the actions by CGC actually caused them financial harm. If CGC's actions just caused them to use Voldemort and Voldemort is viewed as a legitimate competitor - then no harm has been done.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Tony S

[jimjum12]

CGC brings in top dollar for a seller and piece of mind for a buyer. I find this suit meaningless.

 

My layman's understanding of a damages suit is that the plaintiff has to prove both that they were unfairly treated AND that they were damaged by such behavior.

 

The plaintiff's filing goes that CGC is singling out just their books and restoration techniques AND that CGC has a dominant, near monopoly in the field of grading comics....

 

In this situation, the existence of viable competition is actually a GOOD thing for CGC. Much like Microsoft was glad to have Apple around when the Justice Dept was hounding them for using their monopoly in operating system to run competitors in other areas MS wanted to do out of business. Part of their response was "what monopoly? Apple is doing great...."

 

So while I understand that this is a CGC supported forum and it's used by a lot of collectors that could properly be called CGC supporters and fans - those who have expressed similar opinions as above - and I don't mean to single out this post -

would NOT BE helpful witnesses to CGC. You only reinforce the idea that CGC is all that matters in graded comics. IF that is a given, all the plaintiffs have to prove is CGC was treating them unfairly, singling out their books.

 

But if CGC has legitimate competition, then plaintiffs also have to prove the actions by CGC actually caused them financial harm. If CGC's actions just caused them to use Voldemort and Voldemort is viewed as a legitimate competitor - then no harm has been done.

 

... and there is also the avenue in which CGC provides compelling reasons why they felt the books were inherently ungradable.... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[MrBedrock]

Regardless of who has graded the books, the plaintiff's work is the cause of the damage to their business. It should be very easy to prove that the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting. The work hurt the value. They should be suing themselves.

[comicwiz]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

[G.A.tor]

I read where it said restored books had to be graded to sell...that's 100% false. Dismissed based on that?

[MrBedrock]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

[DarthBane]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

[Sqeggs]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

TOS 39 Link

[comicdonna]

I wonder how much money they made off that book? It must be the grading companies fault.

[sterlingcomics]

For those of us who are not familiar with this, could someone explain the situation in basic terms?

 

There's a back story about which I'm clueless, sorry. That story involves the people and personalities underlying the cause of action (or allegations, anyway).

 

But on the surface there is a company that restores the top key comics into "9.4" graded condition.

 

Some have called them "Frankenstein" books because constructed from different parts to create a monster.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detective-Comics-33-CBCS-9-4-Restored-WHITE-Pedigree-Single-Highest-Graded-/141860053585?hash=item210784a251:g:KlsAAOSw5IJWezps&rmvSB=true

 

There was a long thread about one such comic, that evolved into a general discussion of these 9.4 books in general (see op for link).

 

Here's one they sold most recently:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strange-Tales-110-CBCS-9-4-OWW-Slight-Professional-1st-Dr-Strange-Not-CGC-PGX-/142122334957?hash=item211726baed:g:iL8AAOSwknJXyvGV

 

The seller of that comic is one of the plaintiffs, understandably aggrieved because they don't seem to be able to sell these "comic books" for the same coin as before people began to more thoroughly question how much is original comic and how much is restored?

 

Which in turn would probably erode its ability to find new clients for the "upgrade" resto to a 9.4. This is america so they gotta sue *somebody*.

 

Thanks, b/c I don't come here as much anymore. Surprised to see this (and not) at the same time. Just a matter of time for someone to poke at the giant.

[sterlingcomics]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Grading companies brought out the spotlight for those trying to fly under the radar...people do in fact prefer non-restored to restored, except in cases where it makes financial sense. Economic theory still applies.

[VintageComics]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Didn't the earliest book (or books) sell for a strong dollar until the conversation fired up and took on a life of it's own?

 

I think that is what comicwiz was referring to.

[MrBedrock]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Didn't the earliest book (or books) sell for a strong dollar until the conversation fired up and took on a life of it's own?

 

I think that is what comicwiz was referring to.

Oh...that's what he was talking about!

 

Thanks Roy, for clearing that up.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Didn't the earliest book (or books) sell for a strong dollar until the conversation fired up and took on a life of it's own?

 

I think that is what comicwiz was referring to.

 

You have stated the heart of the matter, and the defense of the matter at the same time.

 

You may not realize it, but it is a key to the issue, IMHO of course.

[Bronty]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Didn't the earliest book (or books) sell for a strong dollar until the conversation fired up and took on a life of it's own?

 

I think that is what comicwiz was referring to.

 

You have stated the heart of the matter, and the defense of the matter at the same time.

 

You may not realize it, but it is a key to the issue, IMHO of course.

 

 

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Thanks for that.

[comicwiz]

Funny thing is, I do recall their books selling.

the market doesn't accept extensively restored books at the value IGB was expecting.

 

Didn't the earliest book (or books) sell for a strong dollar until the conversation fired up and took on a life of it's own?

 

I think that is what comicwiz was referring to.

 

You have stated the heart of the matter, and the defense of the matter at the same time.

 

You may not realize it, but it is a key to the issue, IMHO of course.

 

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Thanks for that.

 

I can only go by what transpired in that thread, but I did see IGB's communication as being transparent, and responsive to people's questions/concerns.

 

Where the thread headed in a direction of no good deed going unpunished is when a response to one of the questions highlighted the fact IGB was no longer submitting to CGC due to conflict of interest concerns.

 

We know restoration gets the tough crowd in our hobby, but it's the way the perception of all these near perfect looking books coming to market all at once that galvanized into action a rebuttal that seemed unecessarily harsh, unprofessional and opportunistic.

 

On the latter point, if you consider these factors paired with a proclamation that the work was "ungradable" as alluded to earlier, it not only created the perfect scenario to push out a competing restorer, but discrediting CBCS with each swing must have been seen as too good an opportunity to pass up.

 

Any discussion that attempts to draw on the value of IGB's work must take into account the way the books were performing before the mud-slinging happened on the boards.

 

That thread provides ample evidence of IGB conducting themselves in a manner that our community ordinarily would welcome, but unfortunately met undue vindictiveness and criticism the moment they brought up conflict of interest concerns.

 

This might have been seen as an isolated incident if we didn't see a similar fact pattern reveal itself less than a month ago when Pete C's pressing work was deemed inferior and was told something to the effect of CGC willingly taking his money, but he wouldn't be happy with the results.

 

You don't have to be someone who writes for a living to know the importance of using the right language to convey something.

 

It's impossible to maintain the appearance of impartiality when a company projects an image that they are fast and loose with the way they operate. They could have expressed an impartial opinion clearly by stating CGC will downgrade work performed on a book at their discretion, but chose instead to hit below the belt with IGB and Pete C.

 

If this is what Roy means by things taking on a life of their own "after the conversation fired up" then I would agree.

 

Regardless of whether the Meyers lawsuit has merit or not, I still find it surreal to see the person retained to represent the defendents was once an influential voice pertaining to concerns over CGC and perceived conflicts of interest, and quite frankly, even he ought to know the reason for donning a blue coloured board alias is this day has been long coming.

[Aman619]

Nearly everybody had no idea who the Meyers were, or what their work actually looked like in hand until that thread in which many people posted images pointing out details that illustrated the work the Meyers were doing to the comics.

 

Imo, most people who read the thread and discussed the issue at conventions etc were in agreement that their work was excessive... And in such a way that while looking slick, pretty, and unblemished, was in reality a spray painted veneer of pristine condition, not the real thing.

 

 

So I suppose the argument "could" be made to blame that thread -- and by extension CGC itself -- for the direction the reputation of their work took afterwards...but To me that's a stretch. The argument could also be made that what really happened was that they had just burst onto the comics scene, and very few people knew anything about them just weeks before the thread began... And therefore a reputation was not tarnished by anyone by any act of volition, but rather as a result of consumers becaming educated to what the fuss was all about these pristine restored books, after which enthusiasm waned naturally.

 

Restoration is still an arcane art. But we are all becoming more astute year by year. Here, what LOOKED like one thing, the same old resto but done better -- was actually something most of us feel went too far , too over painted, and into something else entirely. Something few people wanted to pay for at prices the restorers hoped they sell for.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by aman619