First Nazi Cover 2 2

[sfcityduck]

The text story is clearly about the German invasion of Poland. First, sentence is about a Polish town in the midst of a great war. Second page not only has German speaking pilots, but references the "Spandau machine gun" which was standard issue for German airplanes starting in WWI.

 

But, the cover does not have the Balkenkreuz on it, not even a portion of it. The lines are wrong.

 

MMC 2 is implicitly a war cover, like Action 11 I think, but not explicitly. I do agree there can be no doubt that MMC 2 went to production after the invasion of Poland based on the text story.

 

It is hard, however, to view the cover as illustrating the text story because the text story concerns the "little town" of Grybow, Poland, a city of around 10,000 or less. It looks nothing like the cover, which to my eyes resembles New York. The cover appears to be about a hypothetical invasion of NYC. So I don't think you can use the text story to provide the backstory on the cover.

[Knightsofold]

Thanks for the images!

[Cat-Man_America]

 

 

The text story is clearly about the German invasion of Poland. First, sentence is about a Polish town in the midst of a great war. Second page not only has German speaking pilots, but references the "Spandau machine gun" which was standard issue for German airplanes starting in WWI.

 

We are in agreement. The cover is also a direct reflection of the text story, of that there can be little doubt ("alternative facts" notwithstanding).

 

But, the cover does not have the Balkenkreuz on it, not even a portion of it. The lines are wrong.

 

Whether it's an accurate Balkenkreuz or an inaccurate swastika makes little difference as to intent, The planes are clearly German warplanes and the story featured involves the invasion of Poland. Clearly this is a war cover, arguably the first WWII cover as the invasion of Poland is seen by many as the tipping point.

 

MMC 2 is implicitly a war cover, like Action 11 I think, but not explicitly. I do agree there can be no doubt that MMC 2 went to production after the invasion of Poland based on the text story.

 

There is day and night difference between the war cover of MMC #2 and the collision cover of AC #11. I'm not saying that AC #11 is not a war cover, but there'd have to be some text strory or illustrated comic strory inside that is reflective of the cover ...thus far unproduced here... to bear out any assertions. My

 

It is hard, however, to view the cover as illustrating the text story because the text story concerns the "little town" of Grybow, Poland, a city of around 10,000 or less. It looks nothing like the cover, which to my eyes resembles New York. The cover appears to be about a hypothetical invasion of NYC. So I don't think you can use the text story to provide the backstory on the cover.

 

Sorry, that dog don't hunt. The planes have the same symbols on the wings in the text as on the cover. The story is clearly about the German invasion of Poland. The size of the town doesn't matter, although it could be argued that if Grybow, Poland was invaded and we pay no attention to it, ...how long until NY? That makes the story more of a poignant statement about the looming war reaching our shores. The fact that the Angel will still be on hand to fight the good fight makes this a fabulous war cover, IMO. Of course everyone's mileage varies, but the evidence effectively makes this point.

 

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

I thought MMC#4 was credited for first having the swasitka on a cover?

[sfcityduck]

Cat,

 

Here's what I think is proven:

 

* MMC 2 is the first generic "war cover" post-dating the invasion of Poland, which is widely seen as the official start of WWII.

 

Here's what isn't proven:

 

* MMC 2 is the first "war cover" (Action 11 and other earlier generic "war covers" exist);

 

* MMC 2 is the first "Swastika cover" (it's not there);

 

* MMC 2 is the first "Balkenkreuz cover" (nope, not there either -- its a nonsense symbol on the cover and the text illustration); and

 

* The MMC 2 cover, which admittedly has the same non-German nonsense symbol as the text story, is the first WWII cover (nope, we have ZERO information that the artist intended to depict German planes or that illustrations even post-dated the text story. In fact, it is conceivable that the text story was altered at the last minute from an earlier non-German version to make it more Timely after the invasion of Poland. Which would explain why the artist did not put German symbols on the airplanes. All we can do is speculate).

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

Cat,

 

Here's what I think is proven:

 

* MMC 2 is the first generic "war cover" post-dating the invasion of Poland, which is widely seen as the official start of WWII.

 

Here's what isn't proven, but still debatable:

 

* MMC 2 is the first "war cover" (Action 11 and other earlier generic "war covers" exist hasn't been proven to be a war cover yet);

 

* MMC 2 is the first "Swastika cover" (technically, it's not there, but what the nonsense symbol represents isn't open to debate);

 

* MMC 2 is the first "Balkenkreuz cover" (nope, not there either -- its a nonsense symbol on the cover and the text illustration, but this doesn't matter); and

 

* The MMC 2 cover, which admittedly has the same non-German nonsense symbol as the text story, is the first WWII cover (nope, we have ZERO information that the artist intended to depict German planes or that illustrations even post-dated the text story. In fact, it is conceivable that the text story was altered at the last minute from an earlier non-German version to make it more Timely after the invasion of Poland. Which would explain why the artist did not put German symbols on the airplanes. All we can do is speculate).

The above statement is neither proven nor disproven, but this scenario ...while an interesting theory... is less likely than the preponderance of evidence.

 

 

Fixed that fer ya.

 

There are a few generic war covers that predate MM #2, but Charles Mazoujian's cover and interior illustrations ...when combined with the text story... are clearly anti-axis, even if the insignias were improperly rendered, which sets this issue apart from earlier comics.

 

 

[sfcityduck]

I agree the text story is anti-German. Is it the first anti-German story in a comic book?

 

I just am not convinced that the cover or text illustrations were intended to depict German planes. The pictures have no German markings. The cover and text illos are of a big city, really is NYC, not a small Polish border town. So trying to use the text story to tie the cover to the Germans seems a step too far. The case for Top-Notch is really clear. I think its the winner.

[Cat-Man_America]

I agree the text story is anti-German. Is it the first anti-German story in a comic book?

 

I just am not convinced that the cover or text illustrations were intended to depict German planes. The pictures have no German markings. The cover and text illos are of a big city, really is NYC, not a small Polish border town. So trying to use the text story to tie the cover to the Germans seems a step too far. The case for Top-Notch is really clear. I think its the winner.

 

I'm not saying that the Top-Notch #2 isn't a top notch book, but January comes after December and actual war content trumps the use of symbols such as the swastika, which is known to be an appropriated symbol that might've cropped up earlier in another context both in relation to Germany and as a "good fortune" symbol in other cultures. On a warplane, warship or submarine, yes, the swastika symbolizes German aggression. That said, on some comic covers around this time skulls and crossbones were used on bombers and other fighter aircraft. What should that symbolize, ...pirate warfare?

 

The Balkenkreuz cross was more prevalent on German military aircraft than the swastika. The "nonsense" design as you refer to it, could easily be taken as an amalgam of both the swastika and Balkenkreuz ...as the design has elements of both..., but that is purely speculation on my part. I'd rather propose likely scenarios based on provable facts.

 

What we are left with is piecing together likely scenarios of how publishers, writers and artists were interpreting the war in Europe and America's future participation in it. I'll gladly concede that the first war aircraft swastika belongs to Top-Notch #2, even though someone may show clear examples of the symbol's use earlier, perhaps in a non-war related context.

 

The other issue worth debating would be first anti-axis war cover. In no way am I ready to concede MM #2 as a possible contender for first in that category given the evidence of both the cover, text story & illustrations. The context and German dialog in the story makes this abundantly clear ...at least to me..., and there is no "generic" wiggle room for misinterpretation.

 

As I've indicated, there are earlier combat inspired covers with planes and soldiers, Speed Comics being one example. These appear somewhat generic in nature, but without an interior story to provide context, those covers remain question marks. Anti-war covers (for instance, Superman turning over a tank while being fired upon by what appear to be British soldiers) would not necessarily fit into the category of "war cover" as America's claimed neutrality status ...while interesting from a historical context... would be more reflective of the country's cautionary myopia than predicated upon events in motion on the world stage.

[Knightsofold]

Just so it's clear,

Marvel Mystery #2 newstand = Oct 13th 1939

Top Notch #2 newstand = Nov 1st 1939

 

One of the posts above confused me, so I had to double check.

 

[Knightsofold]

I just read that All American Comics #5 has the first anti facist German story.

July 25th 1939. Could anyone who's read this comment on it?

 

 

 

 

[sfcityduck]

All-American 5 has a cover featuring Brits fighting Germans. If it really has an anti-fascist German interior story, then under Cat's reasoning it might well be a contender for first anti-German war cover.

[Straw-Man]

All-American 5 has a cover featuring Brits fighting Germans. If it really has an anti-fascist German interior story, then under Cat's reasoning it might well be a contender for first anti-German war cover.

 

words not often seen in conjunction.

[BB-Gun]

and before the MMC 2 and Top-Notch was Amazing Man 8 which had a story about WWII and Germans which were called Nazis and vehicles with a swastika painted on the outside......

 

So I would say, Amazing Man was the first to join the Allies against the Axis. No pretend symbols, no mythical countries, just WWII straight from the newspapers published at the time. The guy wearing the armband on the cover of AM 9 (the following issue) appears to be a gestapo agent who is being belted by AM. I think Centaur editors and creator Bill Everett should get the credit for picking sides when Timely, MLJ and DC were too shy to admit that their stories were about the Nazi aggression in Europe.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by BB-Gun

[Shrevvy]

All-American 5 has a cover featuring Brits fighting Germans. If it really has an anti-fascist German interior story, then under Cat's reasoning it might well be a contender for first anti-German war cover.

 

That's a WWI cover as evidenced by the "1917" on the cover.

[Knightsofold]

and before the MMC 2 and Top-Notch was Amazing Man 8 which had a story about WWII and Germans which were called Nazis and vehicles with a swastika painted on the outside......

 

So I would say, Amazing Man was the first to join the Allies against the Axis. No pretend symbols, no mythical countries, just WWII straight from the newspapers published at the time. The guy wearing the armband on the cover of AM 9 (the following issue) appears to be a gestapo agent who is being belted by AM. I think Centaur editors and creator Bill Everett should get the credit for picking sides when Timely, MLJ and DC were too shy to admit that their stories were about the Nazi aggression in Europe.

 

 

 

Amazing Man 8 hit the stands after MMC #2 and Top Notch #2 on Nov 13th 1939.

 

Thanks for the interior pics of Amazing Man #8, that's very cool.

[Knightsofold]

and before the MMC 2 and Top-Notch was Amazing Man 8 which had a story about WWII and Germans which were called Nazis and vehicles with a swastika painted on the outside......

 

So I would say, Amazing Man was the first to join the Allies against the Axis. No pretend symbols, no mythical countries, just WWII straight from the newspapers published at the time. The guy wearing the armband on the cover of AM 9 (the following issue) appears to be a gestapo agent who is being belted by AM. I think Centaur editors and creator Bill Everett should get the credit for picking sides when Timely, MLJ and DC were too shy to admit that their stories were about the Nazi aggression in Europe.

 

 

 

I'm guessing most the "credit" will go the the creators at Funnies, Inc. who packaged comics for the various publishers. I know Everett worked there, but I don't remember if Centaur bought from them or he worked directly for them.

 

I'd like to know if Funnies was creating anti-nazi material at the request of publisher/s or if it was in their backlog. I'm guessing Marvel Mystery #2 was bought from funnines, but I'd have to check.

 

I do know that previously Timely's Goodman had published at least one pulp with the swastica on the cover (dynamic science stories #2).

 

Let's get to the bottom of all this! It's fun!

[Sqeggs]

Let's get to the bottom of all this! It's fun!

 

It's a fascinating discussion, but I don't know if it's ultimately resolvable. It depends on whether you are willing to accept a cover that most readers would think was meant to depict a bombing run by German planes (MM 2) but has plane markings that are not actually German, or are only willing to accept a cover with planes that have unmistakably German markings (Top-Notch 2).

 

I'm inclined to accept Top-Notch 2 as the first Nazi cover.

[sfcityduck]

All-American 5 has a cover featuring Brits fighting Germans. If it really has an anti-fascist German interior story, then under Cat's reasoning it might well be a contender for first anti-German war cover.

 

That's a WWI cover as evidenced by the "1917" on the cover.

 

Good catch! Thanks for the correction.

[sfcityduck]

Let's get to the bottom of all this! It's fun!

 

It's a fascinating discussion, but I don't know if it's ultimately resolvable. It depends on whether you are willing to accept a cover that most readers would think was meant to depict a bombing run by German planes (MM 2) but has plane markings that are not actually German, or are only willing to accept a cover with planes that have unmistakably German markings (Top-Notch 2).

 

I'm inclined to accept Top-Notch 2 as the first Nazi cover.

 

I must admit that Cat is making a convincing argument and I think it is a closer call after this discussion. I'm teetering on switching to Cat's side. The only thing keeping me from doing so, is the symbols on the planes wings. I think it was probably publisher cowardice, or a later editorial change to the text story, but I think an intentional decision was made to ensure that the planes weren't marked as German.

[Knightsofold]

I found this on a Timely blog about MMC2

 

"No Prizes:

The cover by Charles J Mazoujian features the Angel, and illustrates the text story within, not the comic strip. Curiously, Mazoujian neglects to include the Angel’s trademark moustach. On the other hand, the Angel in the text story bears little resemblance to the Angel in the comic, so perhaps e are talking about two different, yet very similar characters?"