Opinions On The "Dreaded" Qualified Label...

[Maury]

Hey all

 

I've been reading some of the posts regarding the "dreaded" qualified label CGC gives signed books, so I thought I'd open-up the can of worms again. I'll go fan-boy modern in my example of what I'm thinking...

 

Say I have the Batman 608 Retailer Incentive issue, signed by Loeb and Lee. Let's say, too, that I even have a COA for it. I decide I want to get it graded and it comes back a 9.8. I now have a CGC 9.8 Batman 608 signed (on the cover) by Loeb and Lee -- but CGC gave it a Qualified Label due to the signatures.

 

To me, if I'm looking for that specific issue and the issue is graded high -- I don't care if it's qualified or not. The grade is the point, not the label -- in the case of signatures, at least.

 

Am I missing something? Does the argument really come down to whether or not you, as a collector, like sigs on the front or if you're just hell-bent on getting nothing but blue labels? A book with a sig on the front can still be graded as a 9.8 Qualified, can't it?

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Maury

 

 

 

[supapimp]

CGC gave the qualified label even though you have a COA, reason being they have their own BS signature series to try to make more $$$ on. i think it's jack along with many collectors out there, and some where at CGC someone probably agrees with me too. qualified label doesn't bother me as much as it does others though, those people it does bother are what i call "label whores".

[ninanina]

Writing on the cover doesn't bother me as much as it does a lot of people. I personally would never ask anyone to sign the cover of a comic. If I was after signatures, I would get the signature on the first page of the comic. The only thing a signature on the cover does is effects what the comic would be worth because the less people you have interested in a back-issue, the less it will sell for.

 

Also, if you don't mind a signature on a comic cover, look for them on e-bay. They sell for quite a bit less than other hi-grade copies with no signature. (That is if you are interested in back-issues.)

 

You feel you're missing something?

 

No. You just don't feel that you have to agree with the majority of collectors who wouldn't add a comic with a signature on the cover to their collection. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I kinda feel the same way about restored books. So I know exactly how you feel.

[blowout]

Signatures are a very personnal thing, they are usually on a book that a collector has had signed by the creator at a show etc. You can't really expect a buyer of the book to revere the signature the way you do, as for all they know you could have signed the book yourself.

For this reason I can understand why signed books don't fetch much in the re-sale market.

[Maury]

I'm not so much concerned about the signature itself -- more on the apparant dislike of the Qualified label.

 

If I have two of the same comic, both graded at 9.8 (or whatever), with one having a signature -- aren't they *technically* the same for all intents and purposes save the signature? I guess my real question is what's up with the dislike of the Qualified label if the book is still graded high?

 

Maury

[blowout]

I guess my real question is what's up with the dislike of the Qualified label if the book is still graded high?

 

The main distrust comes from CGCs ambiguty about when they use it. Supposedly, it is for a book that conforms to the stated grade other than one major/unusual defect. This 'defect' can be for example: missing MVS/coupon, signature, extra staple, large store-stamp etc.

 

CGC class the book with a Qualified label to have a major defect but don't downgrade for it () this is what puts most off.

I think most collectors would rather have said defect factored into the grade and the book given its 'true' grade, rather than a phantom one.

[ninanina]

Good argument. I've often wondered the same thing about restored. An apparent Very Fine is worth about as much as an unrestored Very Good in today's market. Now, if you put a VG #1, against an apparent VF #1 and they both cost the same, which one would you want? I would personally take the better looking copy. But not everyone's like that. Same thing with the Qualified label.

 

Best thing for us collectors that don't mind is we all have an opportunity to get nice copies at a better price.

 

At least until the market comes around. Things are always changing, so who knows what will be what in 10 or 20 years.

 

What's up with the dislike? Nothing really other than personal taste. That's one of the wonderful things about this hobby, there's something for everyone. Going after something that everyone wants is popular and expensive. So some of us go after things not everybody wants. It's not popular but it is cheaper.

[supapimp]

I think most collectors would rather have said defect factored into the grade and the book given its 'true' grade, rather than a phantom one.

 

BOGUS! IMHO i think collectors would come out of the woodwork for a NM AF 15 or NM ASM 1 autographed by stan lee, steve ditko, & jack kirby on the cover.

[blowout]

If I have two of the same comic, both graded at 9.8 (or whatever), with one having a signature -- aren't they *technically* the same for all intents and purposes save the signature?

 

A very odd argument. If you disagree try this simple test.

 

Try saying:

I have two of the same comic both graded 9.8 but one has a large coffee stain - aren't they 'technically' the same other than the coffeee stain?

or:

I have two of the same comic both graded 9.8 but one has a large piece missing from the cover - aren't they 'technically' the same other than the piece missing?

 

If you are grading a comic book, you cannot overlook a major defect just because you personally don't mind it. Thats why the Overstreet grading system was developed, to quantify ALL defects and the affect they should have on the grade.

That is why people don't like the qualified grade, because it is not a real grade at all.

 

[blowout]

IMHO i think collectors would come out of the woodwork for a NM AF 15 or NM ASM 1 autographed by stan lee, steve ditko, & jack kirby on the cover

 

But what if the book was signed by Joe Schmo 'pretending' to be Stan Lee?

[ninanina]

Nope, not the same thing. He has a certificate that proves it not Joe Schmoe.

[blowout]

But does he have a certificate to prove the certificate is genuine?

[ninanina]

Don't know.

 

Maury? Whatcha got?

 

Without a certificate to prove the certificate is genuine, the signed copy is definitely more undesirable. Something I never thought about until Blowout brought it up.

 

(Sorry Maury, but as a member of these forums, this is the kind of stuff you're going to have to put up with.)

[blowout]

[Maury]

Try saying:

I have two of the same comic both graded 9.8 but one has a large coffee stain - aren't they 'technically' the same other than the coffeee stain?

or:

I have two of the same comic both graded 9.8 but one has a large piece missing from the cover - aren't they 'technically' the same other than the piece missing?

 

But I'm speaking in terms of a signature only, and one with a COA. True, one can make the aregument about whether or not the COA or signature is authentic, but we can make that argument about anything down to any minutia we want. Further, you're trying to compare a coffe stain to a signature, and that's just too much of a stretch to be a valid comparison within my context.

 

Using your logic, if Stan Lee or Jack Kirby persoannlly handed us a comic with their sig on it, we would second guess whether or not it was really theirs even if they told us it was. And if you want to go evern further, I have an old Philosophy paper somewhere I wrote titled "The Errancy of 'Remembering' and the Fallacy of Human Memory" where I detail how no human can trust their most recent memories or experiences to have actually taken place, thus proving -- to an extent -- that we cannot know whether or not anything we think happened prior to this present moment actually did. I wonder where I stored that...

 

But I digress: I see the "issue" with Qualifieds, but as a collector that enjoys getting books with signatures, if I have a Dynamic Forces COA for said book, that's good enough for me. That said, I would (personally) spring for the signed issue.

 

As for whether or not the books are technically the same -- within the context of my question -- if it's Qualified and the only "flaw" is a signature, I'm happy.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Maury

[Smokinghawk]

My hope and dream--while I still have the chance--is to get my ASM #1 and AF #15 signed by Stan Lee.

 

And Stan Lee means more to me than CGC.

[OldGuy]

You can do both. Get the books CGCed then have Stan sign the plastic cover. Then you have his sig, but you don't mess with the integrity of the comics.