• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Gwen

Started by AlexH,

21 posts in this topic

AlexH

AlexH

Posted
Posted

OK, so for those that don't know, I sat beside J.M. Straczynski for almost an hour this past Saturday. I did not bring up the subject of Gwen, and why he did what he did. I couldn't bring myself to ask. In fact, I don't recall anyone coming right out and asking why?!? There were a couple of guys who quietly voiced their displeasure, but nothing major, which kind of surprised me. Even the Beyonder didn't say anything (mind you, we had 3 plain-clothes cops right around that area to grab him in case he got out of hand tongue.gif).

 

Anyway, I don't think this will make anyone here happier, it might just make people madder, but I have been asked to post it anyway.

 

The subject wasn't brought up until one guy said (and I am paraphrasing here), "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I got what you did with Gwen, making her out to be a party girl." J.M.'s response was to agree with him and remark that he wanted her to represent that time period (I think he must have been refering to the free-love 70's, but this is only a guess).

 

Now, before anyone goes ballistic, I have been thinking a lot about this, and I would like to offer my views on why I think he did it.

 

First, J.M. was brought in to shake up the Spidey mythos. He has introduced several new characters, broken up Peter and Mary Jane, turned Peter into a schoolteacher, and various other things. He just continued the progression of Spidey growing up and experiencing new and different pain. Specifically, I think this particular plot was used to bring Peter and Mary Jane back together again, and make their bond stronger.

 

Second, I think he found a hole in the spidey storyline that he could fill (Gwen's time in Paris), and in the meantime, introduce 2 new characters including a new Goblin.

 

Third, I think J.M. was going for the pure shock value of this turn of events. He wanted us to feel something for a character. And considering that no one could bring themselves to discuss it with him at the show, I think what he was trying to accomplish worked. Whether we liked it or not. Whether or not it destroyed the legacy of the Gwen character. It pissed us off ... immensely ... and it made us readers angry. Perhaps angrier than he wanted us to be, but he elicited a very strong emotion from us. And how many times can you say you walked away from a comic book mad enough to rip it up, or cry, or bust a gut laughing.

 

He put the hook out there, and we bit it.

 

Personally, I got the feeling he knew that he made a mistake doing this, but with his ego, he could never admit it. I don't think he knew there would be this much backlash for a character that has been dead for 30 years. Will he ever admit it was a mistake? Maybe someday. But right now, he got what he wanted ... eveyone talking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
Did anyone ask why he re-did Doctor Strange's origin as a cheap and contrived ripoff of The Matrix in the Strange mini-series?

 

Yes. yeahok.gif

What did he say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mitol

mitol

Posted
Posted

The subject wasn't brought up until one guy said (and I am paraphrasing here), "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I got what you did with Gwen, making her out to be a party girl." J.M.'s response was to agree with him and remark that he wanted her to represent that time period (I think he must have been refering to the free-love 70's, but this is only a guess).

 

So, we're really no closer to understanding JMS's motivation for doing what he did to Gwen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlexH

AlexH

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The subject wasn't brought up until one guy said (and I am paraphrasing here), "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I got what you did with Gwen, making her out to be a party girl." J.M.'s response was to agree with him and remark that he wanted her to represent that time period (I think he must have been refering to the free-love 70's, but this is only a guess).

 

So, we're really no closer to understanding JMS's motivation for doing what he did to Gwen.

 

I told you it wouldn't make anyone happier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blutobc

blutobc

Posted
Posted

The thing is...I would buy the free-love hippy days if the father had been Harry. But going for the Norman angle just made it sleazy. Everything JMS did with the kids could have been done through Harry. Norman would have kept the grandchildren the same as his own kids. Harry's DNA could also have been altered by the Goblin formula. I mean even Norman's hatred of Gwen could have been better explained by saying that Norman was upset that Gwen had slept with the inferior Harry instead of his favorite, Peter.

 

Bottom line...make it Harry and the pain is greatly lessened, heck it is even logical. A Gwen/Norman sympathy hookup is contrived, cheap, unplausible, and ultimately will never be accepted in the comic world. It's sleeze simply for the sake of sleeze.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing the info Alex.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jokerman

Jokerman

Posted
Posted

Bottom line...make it Harry and the pain is greatly lessened, heck it is even logical. A Gwen/Norman sympathy hookup is contrived, cheap, unplausible, and ultimately will never be accepted in the comic world. It's sleeze simply for the sake of sleaze.

 

thumbsup2.gif

That sums up my feelings about that topic too.

thumbsup2.gif

 

Joker..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aman619

Aman619

Posted
Posted

yeah. There was nothing "free love" about getting it on with your friends FATHER!!!! Thats not 60s free love talking - - thats TRAILER TRASH livin!JMS completely forgot the overriding 60s principle: "Never trust anybody over 30!!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted

His story continuely changes...so now it's the hippy trip/free love excuse. Yesterday, it was the independent girl who made a mistake. Before that it was the innocent girl who was manipulated by the charismatic older man...

 

All these excuses prove he didn't have a clue what he was getting into, who the character was, or how to admit he screwed the pooch on this one. Hack never seemed more appropriate...

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mica

mica

Posted
Posted

The Gwen I know is still pure and fun loving and dancing at the "Flash Thompson" send off, to the military.

 

Gwen-rewriting history Stuff like this is what made me stop reading Marvel.

Sometimes I pretend it's still 1991 and Marvel can pull itself together and turn things around. I grew up with Marvel and always considered it the best, but then came hologram covers, too much Carnage/Venom (sorry I prefer Kraven/Vulture/Octopus).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hobgoblin

Hobgoblin

Posted
Posted
The subject wasn't brought up until one guy said (and I am paraphrasing here), "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I got what you did with Gwen, making her out to be a party girl." J.M.'s response was to agree with him and remark that he wanted her to represent that time period (I think he must have been refering to the free-love 70's, but this is only a guess).

 

So, we're really no closer to understanding JMS's motivation for doing what he did to Gwen.

 

I told you it wouldn't make anyone happier.

 

My opinion? JMS and Bendis have to write stories like they have recently in order keep readers from becoming too bored with the same things over and over again. I mean, there have been a lot of Spidey books written in the last 40 years. If he didn't write the Gwen story, we would have gone straight to the Molten Man II story and people would have complained that it has already been done. And Bendis with his Avengers/New Avengers deal has opened the door for a few more ideas for JMS. Without huge shake ups now and then that a lot of fans may not enjoy, the stories would always be the same and some people (hi.gif) would become bored with them. That's MHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

I really agree with the sentiment that my Marvel Universe ended in about 1991 or 1992. Events that have happened since then constitute Elseworlds in my mind and I pretty much ignore the events. I stopped reading ASM, and really don't care what JMS is doing to the book. Perhaps one day I'll come back when there's a Spidey story I might enjoy again.

 

I don't really care for Bendis or JMS, but there are legions of fans who do like them both. If that's what they want out of their comics, so be it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mica

mica

Posted
Posted

After 1991 more and more comics were becoming poster books. Everything had to run off the page. The standard panels were disappearing, and the constant crossover multi-part storyline even into the lesser read books was irritating.... Then soon IMAGE came on the scene. I know there are fans of IMAGE, nice people I'm sure, but by this time the comics that I grew up with were cut off from the newer. In our own way this generation is experiencing what the readers of EC comics experienced in 1956.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
howardhallis

howardhallis

Posted
Posted

Sorry for the SPOILERS

 

The most ridiculous thing about the Gwen Stacy story is the fact that she had those kids in the comic span of 3(?) months while Gwen was in Europe and they rapidly aged to be teenagers in the span of 6 or 7 comic book years which in reality was over 30 years ago... all of that was just bad writing. Even the clone saga was more believable to me.

 

As for the Strange mini series, don't get me started. Making Clea and The Ancient One into Trinity and Morpheus was embarrassing. Changing Dr. Strange's origin from a car crash to a skiing accident was unneccesary and stupid. Good thing this mini-series seems to have dropped off the face of Marvel continuity, as the "regular" original Doc is back in non-Neo form in House of M.

 

Still JMS has done some good stuff. Amazing Spider-Man #500 was nice, as was the 911 Spidey issue (Dr. Doom crying was really a touching moment.) devil.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UnrulyAppendage

UnrulyAppendage

Posted
Posted

Still JMS has done some good stuff. Amazing Spider-Man #500 was nice, as was the 911 Spidey issue (Dr. Doom crying was really a touching moment.)

 

I thought Doom crying was the most insulting part of the whole thing. That is the problem with interjecing real life into the comics. In reality, Doom would applaud, or at least admire the act.

 

I don't think JMS counted on the backlash of Sins of the Past. Going back and finding a time frame to exploit is one thing, but to change the character of a character is another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing