AGGIEZ Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Jerkfro said: Not if you want the 1st full appearance, which is what most collectors seem to want these days. Obviously your approach works for you. You get to collect the less expensive comic and the one that's more important to you and flip the more expensive one. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Pontoon Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 20 hours ago, N e r V said: I think all 3 titles (Fantastic Four,Thor and Marvel Premiere) are needed to get the full "first" appearance of the character. Let the market figure out what's what with value. The character we know today wasn't finished with his appearance until Marvel Premiere #1. Not every character has a clear cut intro. tied to one issue. Case in point how would determine Mockingbirds first appearance. There was a lot leading up to her in costume. With Warlock I think all 3 books (FF 67, Thor 165, MP 1) are needed if you want his "first" appearance. Which is most important in the market should come with demand. I'm sure the most valuable to a seller will happen to be which one of those he's selling at the time. I like that line of thought! And it's not just because I have all 3 books, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcjames Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 3/5/2017 at 11:57 AM, Comicdey said: Sidenote: Do you bag all your books backwards like this? Just curious if there's a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, jcjames said: Sidenote: Do you bag all your books backwards like this? Just curious if there's a reason. No there just happens to be a high grade 66 on the front side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadwick Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I just sold copies of all 3, and I miss the FF 67 the most, so that's my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronx Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 This is a perfect example of collect what you like. I love FF 67 and always have. It has everything I want for one my favorite Marvel characters. Origin, cocoon and HIM all wrapped in one of the great iconic covers of the Silver Age AND still somewhat affordable. Everyone has made strong points but I know what I love and that works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 On 3/5/2017 at 11:22 AM, Jerkfro said: Not if you want the 1st full appearance, which is what most collectors seem to want these days. Obviously your approach works for you. You get to collect the less expensive comic and the one that's more important to you and flip the more expensive one. You mean those "key issue only" collectors? They just eat whatever CGC write on their labels (sometimes wiki). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, prez said: On 3/5/2017 at 2:22 PM, Jerkfro said: Not if you want the 1st full appearance, which is what most collectors seem to want these days. Obviously your approach works for you. You get to collect the less expensive comic and the one that's more important to you and flip the more expensive one. You mean those "key issue only" collectors? They just eat whatever CGC write on their labels (sometimes wiki). What difference does it make? They collect what they want to and you collect what you want to. If you want to consider the FF issue to be the "one", great have a ball. Just know that many do not agree with your absolutism. Besides, this type of thing existed pre-CGC so it's not simply people believing blindly what's on the label. I happen to think MP 1 is the key issue as it shows the beginning of the character we know today. However, fandom does not consider MP 1 to be the first app of the character. Edited March 13, 2017 by Jerkfro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I personally don't like the whole "1st Full Appearance" nonsense. First is first, unless it was second, then it's not second, it's 1st Full. A "1st Full Appearance" is not the first appearance of anything. However, 1st Full is what the market has determined has the highest value. JonJonJay and MR SigS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Jerkfro said: I personally don't like the whole "1st Full Appearance" nonsense. First is first, unless it was second, then it's not second, it's 1st Full. A "1st Full Appearance" is not the first appearance of anything. However, 1st Full is what the market has determined has the highest value. Again, I'm not disputing that the most valuable amongst the 3 Warlock books is Thor 165. It has the HIM cover that most speculators (including myself) want All I'm trying to say is that the content and timing of its release was not consistent to those of Hulk 180 / 181, ASM 299 / 300, MoS 17 / 18, etc. Thor 165 was not part of the original story arc (origin) and was released 2 yrs later. The HIM character was clearly established in '67. I bet we won't be having this discussion if FF 67's cover looks like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01TheDude Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I like all three books but tend to like Thor 165 most for the cover mostly and that I collect the Thor series itself since I was just starting. I like the Fantastic Four but only cherry pick some issues for cover or stories that tie in with my other favorites (like Daredevil or Thor). I sure wouldn't mind having a FF 67 though-- but not enough to pony up the dough for a nice copy. Had a reprint of it (MGC) but foolishly sold it off with a bunch of other reprints without thinking. I agree with those saying it really comes down to what you like. All three books definitely have their own strengths. I do not consider market value to be the determining factor when it comes to this question as it can fluctuate from a variety of factors like movies or current speculation. The timing of the Thor book to the FF 66 is what makes this so strange to other appearance debates. Cocoon, HIM, Warlock -- three phases of the one character if you will-- can't think of many others like that (maybe Wonder Man and Vision?). Anyway-- it is a fun aspect to collecting and hard to say anyone is exactly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 gotta go with all three - Warlock fan so I have everything, but I would say for pecking order Thor 165 1a FF 67 1 b MP 1 c 01TheDude and AGGIEZ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andahaion Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I'm in the market for all three with hopes of purchasing a CGC 9.0 Thor #165 first (proving more difficult than anticipated). In my shopping around I noticed that another grading company actually lists #165 as the "3rd appearance of Him (Adam Warlock)" on their label. I'm not advocating anything, just thought it was interesting. I usually don't even look at non-CGC labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) "Example 2, 1st image of Valkyrie is Avengers 83 but it was really Enchantress disguised as her. Her actual 1st app was Inc Hulk 142. Discuss " If the market agrees that Av 4 is the first SA Cap -- makes sense, Acrobat was just wearing a Cap costume in ST114 -- how is that any different than Enchantress shape-shifting into Valkyrie in Av 83? That's not Valkyrie, that's Enchantress. So isn't Hulk 142 her actual 1st appearance? But market prizes Av 83 over Hulk 142. CGC label for Hulk 142 just says "Valkyrie appearance." Edited March 16, 2017 by zosocane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 X-Men 282 / 283. 282 is 1st brief app. though you can argue he's on the cover. The brief appearance is worth much more. brianchew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianchew Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Philflound said: X-Men 282 / 283. 282 is 1st brief app. though you can argue he's on the cover. The brief appearance is worth much more. Phil, this is the one exception. Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 3/13/2017 at 4:53 AM, Jerkfro said: I personally don't like the whole "1st Full Appearance" nonsense. First is first, unless it was second, then it's not second, it's 1st Full. A "1st Full Appearance" is not the first appearance of anything. However, 1st Full is what the market has determined has the highest value. Well, if that's the case, then can you explain why Jimmy O 134 goes for so much more than Forever People 1? I guess maybe it also depends on the individual character(s) in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philflound Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, lou_fine said: Well, if that's the case, then can you explain why Jimmy O 134 goes for so much more than Forever People 1? I guess maybe it also depends on the individual character(s) in question. My guess is JO print run was dropping and Forever People #1 was probably mass produced due to being #1 & Kirbyverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 11 hours ago, lou_fine said: Well, if that's the case, then can you explain why Jimmy O 134 goes for so much more than Forever People 1? I guess maybe it also depends on the individual character(s) in question. There are always exceptions to the rule. It's also possible that in time, Forever People will catch up to and surpass JO 134. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianchew Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 16 hours ago, lou_fine said: Well, if that's the case, then can you explain why Jimmy O 134 goes for so much more than Forever People 1? I guess maybe it also depends on the individual character(s) in question. you just pointed out the one case where this was an exception. I agree with Philflound, in this case the rarity of the book escalated the value of the appearance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
