General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[N/A]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

 

I know reductio ad absurdum. I've studied reductio ad absurdum. This, sir, is no...well...maybe a little.

 

If you say you trust everyone until they give you a reason not to, as opposed to say letting people earn your trust, then you MUST therefore (as a logical certainty) believe everything they tell you and everything they say they are going to do until they do otherwise.

 

It's simply pointing out that no one actually trusts everyone until given a reason not to. That's not how people conduct themselves and that's not how business is done and it's not how JD does business. Which, to me, calls into question how much he actually trusts everyone as he says, or if it's just for debate purposes.

 

I'd ask him directly but I am too full for any more fortune cookies, mine or his.

 

Your example is a silly example. There is quite a bit of trust in the buyer and the business model as is. I don't recall ever being asked to ship before payment. Why would trust require me to ship when the buyer wins an auction? Doesn't make any sense.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Your questions only apply by assuming intent. I don't see the vast majority as interfering. I certainly don't see them as taking anything from me.

 

 

 

Can you actually see the silver bells and cockle shells from your window?

 

Do you find it hard to trust in general?

 

 

I find trust is an achievement, to be earned, and not a gift, to be given away.

 

And it is this philosophical difference that keeps us at odds.

 

Wait, so you implicitly trust everyone first?

 

Yes.

 

Until there is a reason not to trust them. Then your rules applies, for me.

 

Trust is different than respect.

 

C4Fun is making his point so I'll leave him to it, but if you trusted everyone 1st you'd be shipping before they pay.

 

 

Ok then. Now you get to make the rules on trust. Cool! Maybe you can have them added to the sale section rules. (thumbs u

 

 

They're your rules. Don't get bent because the application means you gotta ship out books as soon as someone says they'll take it.

 

 

No. Your example is silly and does not properly illustrate openly trusting and not having them earn it.

 

It's not silly. Trust is trust. Someone you don't know and have never met, maybe who joined the boards yesterday, says "I'll take that book for $800. I really need it now to give it as a gift, so please ship it out right away, I promise I'll pay you right after."

 

Now you've said you trust people until they give you a reason not to. This person has not given you a reason not to. Do you trust him and follow through on your end feeling confident he'll follow through on his?

 

If you don't agree because you don't know him and never dealt with him that's smart business. You feel he needs to earn it. That maybe, you don't trust everyone until they prove otherwise.

 

You are a savvy guy. You are good at how you conduct business on the boards. I find it hard to believe you don't bring skepticism into your dealings. The sharks outnumber the guppies in this world.

[N/A]

This scenario is quite different than your original one.

 

So the buyer requests I send the comic before making payment. The "why" is important here and the dollar amount. I don't see it as a lack of trust. I just don't. I have to consider being able to afford the trust. I would not assume he is out to scam me which seems to be the stance when discussing the comments after a sale.

 

I would not immediately answer no but I sell to have the money. I don't immediately say no to some time payments either although it may not work.

 

Assuming trust is a scale.....is everyone at zero and works their way to ten, for you?

 

Perhaps that is a better way to understand where people start for either of us. I start by trusting but that does not mean I invite strangers to watch my kids.

[comix4fun]

This scenario is quite different than your original one.

 

So the buyer requests I send the comic before making payment. The "why" is important here and the dollar amount. I don't see it as a lack of trust. I just don't. I have to consider being able to afford the trust. I would not assume he is out to scam me which seems to be the stance when discussing the comments after a sale.

 

I would not immediately answer no but I sell to have the money. I don't immediately say no to some time payments either although it may not work.

 

Assuming trust is a scale.....is everyone at zero and works their way to ten, for you?

 

Perhaps that is a better way to understand where people start for either of us. I start by trusting but that does not mean I invite strangers to watch my kids.

 

So people earn trust with you too. They aren't automatically trusted.

 

There may be people you trust with more or different things, business deals vs. watching children. Each one is earned in its own way, through deeds and examples where the trust was rewarded. Trust is a scale, and someone earns their way up.

 

Trust is very difficult to earn and extremely easy to lose.

 

That's why trust isn't a scale for me when it comes to how it's lost . Either I trust someone or I don't. If they give me a small reason not to trust them then I don't trust them. If they give me a giant reason to not trust them I don't trust them. I am not afraid to learn from someone's actions or deeds or misdeeds.

 

Mostly I think you can tell a lot about someone when money is involved. The sniff of cash can turn otherwise kind, nice people into greedy misanthropes. There are people that would take from someone they considered a "friend" for enough money. They'd cut out "friends" of a deal if it meant a bigger piece of the pie for themselves. They'd grab a key book they knew a friend wanted if it meant more in their pocket, even if they had to lie to do it.

 

When someone is tested when it comes to money or material items, and they fail, whether it's for a dollar or a thousand, they've told you everything you need to know about their personal integrity.

 

I had one "friend" tell me that a book I asked him to get for me a convention was "all sold out, sorry", but then he started selling them for a 5x markup online. He showed me his true face and how he valued the relationship and how cheaply he was willing to sell it out. Boom, done.

 

Another "friend" offered me a "sweet deal" on a piece of artwork that he was helping the owner sell. It was only offered to me and I had an exclusive shot at it. Turns out none of that was true and the markup was almost 100% "for me" and for the other 3 people he fed the same line to....again, Boom...done.

 

Having personally been burned (or attempted to be) by "friends" and strangers more times than I can count in all ways large and small I can tell you it's not rare, it's not infrequent, and it's not a small amount of the population. There's no logical reason to trust anyone on spec.

 

Anyone worthy of trust knows it's earned and not expected.

[N/A]

This scenario is quite different than your original one.

 

So the buyer requests I send the comic before making payment. The "why" is important here and the dollar amount. I don't see it as a lack of trust. I just don't. I have to consider being able to afford the trust. I would not assume he is out to scam me which seems to be the stance when discussing the comments after a sale.

 

I would not immediately answer no but I sell to have the money. I don't immediately say no to some time payments either although it may not work.

 

Assuming trust is a scale.....is everyone at zero and works their way to ten, for you?

 

Perhaps that is a better way to understand where people start for either of us. I start by trusting but that does not mean I invite strangers to watch my kids.

 

So people earn trust with you too. They aren't automatically trusted.

 

There may be people you trust with more or different things, business deals vs. watching children. Each one is earned in its own way, through deeds and examples where the trust was rewarded. Trust is a scale, and someone earns their way up.

 

Trust is very difficult to earn and extremely easy to lose.

 

That's why trust isn't a scale for me when it comes to how it's lost . Either I trust someone or I don't. If they give me a small reason not to trust them then I don't trust them. If they give me a giant reason to not trust them I don't trust them. I am not afraid to learn from someone's actions or deeds or misdeeds.

 

Mostly I think you can tell a lot about someone when money is involved. The sniff of cash can turn otherwise kind, nice people into greedy misanthropes. There are people that would take from someone they considered a "friend" for enough money. They'd cut out "friends" of a deal if it meant a bigger piece of the pie for themselves. They'd grab a key book they knew a friend wanted if it meant more in their pocket, even if they had to lie to do it.

 

When someone is tested when it comes to money or material items, and they fail, whether it's for a dollar or a thousand, they've told you everything you need to know about their personal integrity.

 

I had one "friend" tell me that a book I asked him to get for me a convention was "all sold out, sorry", but then he started selling them for a 5x markup online. He showed me his true face and how he valued the relationship and how cheaply he was willing to sell it out. Boom, done.

 

Another "friend" offered me a "sweet deal" on a piece of artwork that he was helping the owner sell. It was only offered to me and I had an exclusive shot at it. Turns out none of that was true and the markup was almost 100% "for me" and for the other 3 people he fed the same line to....again, Boom...done.

 

Having personally been burned (or attempted to be) by "friends" and strangers more times than I can count in all ways large and small I can tell you it's not rare, it's not infrequent, and it's not a small amount of the population. There's no logical reason to trust anyone on spec.

 

Anyone worthy of trust knows it's earned and not expected.

 

 

We just disagree. I have often been told that I trust too much. I don't find myself getting burned all that often. I would describe it as rare.

 

I do agree about the money and have often tested people with cash. It seems to bring out the true nature of a person faster than I would hope.

 

I see the comments as a little thing so I trust they have the best or no intentions. I send packages with no tracking within my limits etc.... I suppose I am smart enough to avoid listing all the ways I trust people because I suspect there are some reading and just waiting to take advantage.

 

I guess I trust to a point, even strangers, and then it can increase or decrease from there. For small things I prefer to trust.

[seanfingh]

 

Well, that was a pleasant conclusion to the October 22 tempest in a teapot sweepstakes. Kudos to all involved!!

[comix4fun]

Well, that was a pleasant conclusion to the October 22 tempest in a teapot sweepstakes. Kudos to all involved!!

 

 

 

I don't trust that you're being sincere.

[HarveySwick]

I stopped reading.

[N/A]

Well, that was a pleasant conclusion to the October 22 tempest in a teapot sweepstakes. Kudos to all involved!!

 

 

 

I don't trust that you're being sincere.

 

I do!

[N/A]

I stopped reading.

 

 

I expected more from you.

[VintageComics]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

I make the same points whether it's in public or on a chat forum. What I find is that it's others that don't.

 

I'm not sure if you have a beef with me. I certainly don't have one with you.

[HarveySwick]

Looked like a lot of:

 

 

[N/A]

Looked like a lot of:

 

 

 

You didn't even try.

[N/A]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

I make the same points whether it's in public or on a chat forum. What I find is that it's others that don't.

 

I'm not sure if you have a beef with me. I certainly don't have one with you.

 

It's actually funny you say that. I often see a disparity between your board persona and local rumours. If you ever wondered where my comments come from, that is it. (thumbs u

[Bird]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

I make the same points whether it's in public or on a chat forum. What I find is that it's others that don't.

 

I'm not sure if you have a beef with me. I certainly don't have one with you.

 

Nope, my fault if it came off that way.

 

I was addressing the trust argument, mostly made by Chris.

 

I have beef with no one. (They call me the breeze!)

 

I got one person on ignore though. But no beef here.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Bird

[Transplant]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

I make the same points whether it's in public or on a chat forum. What I find is that it's others that don't.

 

I'm not sure if you have a beef with me. I certainly don't have one with you.

 

It's actually funny you say that. I often see a disparity between your board persona and local rumours. If you ever wondered where my comments come from, that is it. (thumbs u

A disparity, you say?

[comicdonna]

For the record, Roy is quiet as a mouse in person.

[N/A]

you are in reductio ad absudum or whatever it is territory now

 

I make the same points whether it's in public or on a chat forum. What I find is that it's others that don't.

 

I'm not sure if you have a beef with me. I certainly don't have one with you.

 

It's actually funny you say that. I often see a disparity between your board persona and local rumours. If you ever wondered where my comments come from, that is it. (thumbs u

A disparity, you say?

 

Yes, which tends to be one of my pet peeves.

[N/A]

For the record, Roy is quiet as a mouse in person.

 

[Bird]

For the record, Roy is quiet as a mouse in person.

 

who is Roy?