(attempted) Flip of the Day! 12 12

[Guest Race]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:00 PM, Pontoon said:

The stat on the left isn't even cut straight.

Crooked sellers, crooked stats

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 4/28/2022 at 4:45 PM, Hockeyflow33 said:

Sorry for the board on board crime

 

And the flip is a flop:  Original Price paid to Hakes: $21K. Original Flip asking price: $35K, (66% mark up) on ebay, CGC, and FB, where it's was universally mocked given how he tried to market it.  Only though some enormous intervention on certain moderators part was the discussion about the deceptive comps shut down. Yet, here it is consigned to Glen, at 29K (38%).  Assuming he gave Glen the standard 15% commission, he only netted 3.5K (17%) and that's being hopeful.  If Glen traded something for the SW page, then who knows how much he actually lost on the deal. An expensive lesson learned. He will never dip his tow in the OA pool again I wager. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by MyNameIsLegion

[Twanj]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:55 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

And the flip is a flop: 

Assuming he gave Glen the standard 15% commission, he only netted 3.5K (17%) and that's being hopeful.

Over a couple weeks?

It's not amazing but I'm sure they'd do that every day all day if they could.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:15 AM, Twanj said:

Over a couple weeks?

It's not amazing but I'm sure they'd do that every day all day if they could.

if those were returns on stocks, I guess you are right.  Of course this is a collectible, so the tax on that is gonna take a chunk of the profit if properly accounted. Shave another 22-28%? I've certainly seen less sensible flips when it's one less zero involved.  all this does is cause the entire market to inflate.  Hake's made 18% without having to sweat it at all. Some less educated person paid 29K for a piece that the original consigner got 18K for.  The art is literally fading by the minute.....

[Twanj]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:25 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

if those were returns on stocks, I guess you are right.  Of course this is a collectible, so the tax on that is gonna take a chunk of the profit if properly accounted. Shave another 22-28%? I've certainly seen less sensible flips when it's one less zero involved.  all this does is cause the entire market to inflate.  Hake's made 18% without having to sweat it at all. Some less educated person paid 29K for a piece that the original consigner got 18K for.  The art is literally fading by the minute.....

I totally agree and thank you for pointing it out so I didn't feel the need to!

Yeh, I'm not a fan of this one bit. And I think this thread is necessary if maybe it helps educate one person. I'd certainly feel duped in this situation.

[vodou]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:25 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

Some less educated person paid 29K for a piece that the original consigner got 18K for.  The art is literally fading by the minute.....

Two sentences that say it all. A 61% ignorance tax and there's less "art" today than there was two months ago too.

The market, above $100 for any/all fadeaway art continues to amaze me.

[Sean I]

Yes I think a low effort 3.5k profit will bring that person back to flip again more likely than sour them on OA. You may have witnessed the origin story of a new dealmaker of comic art. 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:28 AM, Sean- said:

Yes I think a low effort 3.5k profit will bring that person back to flip again more likely than sour them on OA. You may have witnessed the origin story of a new dealmaker of comic art. 

perhaps- but for this particular flipper, they were usually a CGC slab commodity flipper.  OA is a different animal. Touting 2 different 7 figure SW pages as justification for a 5 figure page was not swaying knowledge OA collectors.  It would be like saying WWBN #28 is worth $$ because WWBN #32 is worth $$$$.   OA, as much as there's been an effort to commoditize it, is still a unique one of a kind item.  

[Guest Race]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:56 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

perhaps- but for this particular flipper, they were usually a CGC slab commodity flipper.  OA is a different animal. Touting 2 different 7 figure SW pages as justification for a 5 figure page was not swaying knowledge OA collectors.  It would be like saying WWBN #28 is worth $$ because WWBN #32 is worth $$$$.   OA, as much as there's been an effort to commoditize it, is still a unique one of a kind item.  

The question is, why did they even believe this was possible? Hell, why does Glen think asking 29K for this is even reasonable, considering rhe transparency of the Hakes auction? Aren't dealers SUPPOSED to be the experts on price and counsel accordingly? Or is everything now out of the window because crazy $$$ rules rhe day?

[artdealer]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:30 PM, Race said:

The question is, why did they even believe this was possible? Hell, why does Glen think asking 29K for this is even reasonable, considering rhe transparency of the Hakes auction? Aren't dealers SUPPOSED to be the experts on price and counsel accordingly? Or is everything now out of the window because crazy $$$ rules rhe day?

If I may reply….

these are the Wild West days, where everything and anything goes. 
In order for dealers to get new material, they must bend to the wishes of their consignors. 
The consignors will not leave a cent on the table if they think they can get away with it. 
 

Now of course, there are consignors who ask the opinion of the dealer to price the work, and possibly come to an agreement. 
but most of the time it’s the consignor who has the say. 

[lobrac]

Avengers #80 page 15 sold for $3500 hammer + 25% BP:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/119638060_original-comic-art

Now the buyer rollin' the dice on HA:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-buscema-and-tom-palmer-the-avengers-80-story-page-15-original-art-marvel-1970-/a/322222-46030.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

[zhamlau]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:10 PM, lobrac said:

Avengers #80 page 15 sold for $3500 hammer + 25% BP:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/119638060_original-comic-art

Now the buyer rollin' the dice on HA:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-buscema-and-tom-palmer-the-avengers-80-story-page-15-original-art-marvel-1970-/a/322222-46030.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

already making one grand if it ends today. Likely goes to 8-9k at least....messed up being the underbidder on that one...

[vodou]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:28 PM, zhamlau said:

already making one grand if it ends today. Likely goes to 8-9k at least....messed up being the underbidder on that one...

It's garbage; people are dumb.

[Bird]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:10 PM, lobrac said:

Avengers #80 page 15 sold for $3500 hammer + 25% BP:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/119638060_original-comic-art

Now the buyer rollin' the dice on HA:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-buscema-and-tom-palmer-the-avengers-80-story-page-15-original-art-marvel-1970-/a/322222-46030.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

[Sideshow Bob]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:46 AM, lobrac said:

FRAUD OF THE DAY courtesy of the Donnellys AKA Coollines:

This Michael Bair Alpha Flight/Wolverine piece was traded to them as unpublished. The Donnellys then added fake stats and word balloons from the real title page to Alpha Flight #87 to give it the appearance of a published piece...

https://www.comicartfans.com/ForSaleDetails.asp?ArtId=7719402&fbclid=IwAR24pnTZoqLLV_DuzFdifNrYwfiCErcv2ylm8CzZaBtJcVmv2IegOc6q-48

The best part about this is the title on the for-sale listing, which says "first version 1990"... caveat emptor, indeed. 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 5/31/2022 at 5:56 PM, Economy Joe said:

[Hockeyflow33]

I had just over 100 pieces sell in the last ComicConnect auction and at least ten of them have popped up on ebay, that was surprising. 

 

[grapeape]

On 6/2/2022 at 6:33 AM, Hockeyflow33 said:

I had just over 100 pieces sell in the last ComicConnect auction and at least ten of them have popped up on ebay, that was surprising. 

 

If you are willing to monitor those ten auctions and share with us the results, for better or worse, that would be very useful for the community.

Do they sell for more or less when you factor in ebay seller and listing fees?

[grapeape]

On 6/2/2022 at 6:33 AM, Hockeyflow33 said:

I had just over 100 pieces sell in the last ComicConnect auction and at least ten of them have popped up on ebay, that was surprising. 

 

I'm starting to suspect that some people are into comic art just to make money and not for the love of art. Most of us resell art at some point. However the impact is jarring when you see that art back come up so soon after selling. I sold an ASM 1 to a comic shop for $2100 back in 1994. I made a meager $400 profit owning it for two years but I had a family so I  had to let it go. Two days later my brother tells me whatever I do don't go back to the comic store. Why? They had the comic listed for $12,000 in the store window. 

The store owner traded it for a Jaguar that was on sale in the parking lot for $5500. Two days after the trade the car broke down. Engine shot. Thousands of dollars in repairs needed. Wound up junking it.

I admire anyone that can see a collectible with meat on the bones, buy it and resell for profit. In my situation the comic shop owner insisted he couldn't go higher as he was already paying top dollar and probably would be lucky to sell it for $2500. Then after getting it from me.....

What is my point? I don't know. I guess I want you all who have been aggressively flipped to take heart. Sometimes unbridled ambition leads to ruin

[grapeape]

On 6/13/2017 at 8:58 AM, Lee B. said:

Good morning!  I follow art sales fairly carefully and am constantly impressed by the ambitions of art sellers to turn a quick profit.  I admit to having done this in the past, but on other occasions my attempts to "flip" art have been disasters where I have lost money.  It's a fact of life, and I'm not passing judgement, but I think it might be helpful to less experienced collectors to highlight instances where art is being offered at multiple times of a recent sale price.  

sometimes you do get a real bargain and can resell at fair market value to make a quick profit.  But not always. 

Cheers, Lee

Lee,

Thanks for starting this useful thread. It's a place to gleam data that's important to collectors. It's a place to vent! To laugh and cry. Ambition leads to riches for some but a steep cliff for the rest. It's one of my favorite threads.

Mike *grapeape*CAF*APA