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Nominating DavidtheDavid
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318 posts in this topic

I sold a high grade Famous Funnies 211 to DavidtheDavid (James) and the book was shipped on June 12th.

The original scans of the book can be found here https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/416343-closed/

I purchased the book from Inaflash and he can absolutely verify its condition when he sold it to me.

Yesterday, I received a note from James stating the following, "Err...Houston, we have an ... issue? Check out the image you uploaded, top left corner. Now here's the book itself. I overlooked it until I was scanning last night. See that crease in the upper left? It's really delicate, like too much action and it's going to break. On the front there's a corner bend, too, that doesn't appear to be in the scan. Somehow the book took damage after your scan, and I really can't call it an 8.5. See my image with the "pencil" marks showing where the corner crease is on the front. I dunno how to handle it...thoughts?"

Attached to the note were my scans of the book posted from the link and what I looked at later were scans of a damaged book.

At first I said ok to a return because I didn't have my glasses with me and I couldn't see the damage to the corner of the book - I thought what the hell, crazy buyer but then when I got home and saw the damage to the book in the scans and his comment I knew what had happened - that he somehow damaged the corner of the book and was passing it off as my fault. I notified him by email as soon as I could but he had packaged it and dropped it off in the mail - and now its en route.

James' scans of the book's damaged areas can be found below. He claims the damage he "overlooked" is on both the back and front.

Moreover, the book's not even in my hands and he's opened a Paypal dispute against me.

He's nominated for the probation list because its pretty clear that something occurred while the book was in his possession. Adding insult to injury is that he opened a dispute and its not in my hands...I'm seething at the level of deception and dishonesty DavidtheDavid has exhibited. You don't go from "Gorgeous Book sir, Really happy to have that in my hands. Looks incredible fresh, doesn't it?" to I overlooked.... I call BS.

This is the kind of buyer behavior can't be tolerated on this board. That is why he's being nominated.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

That is why he's being nominated.

Yikes...what a mess. So let me get this straight...David first "accepts" the book (based on that June 17th message to you), then a week or so later he "reneges" his acceptance of the book (i.e., wants to return the book) because he initially didn't notice the damage. Then, you at first agree to accept the return, but then you "renege" on your agreement to accept the return after he has already put the book back in the mail to you, because you initially didn't notice the damage he was claiming? Ugh.

Another clarifying question...

3 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

its pretty clear that something occurred while the book was in his possession

...to an outside, neutral observer, exactly how is it clear that the damage occurred while the book was in his possession? Just sayin'. I mean, you and I are both Atlantans, so that gives you a leg up in my book...but the Nashvillians might go the other way. :wink:

Could it have been damaged during shipping, or did the damage necessarily occur when it was in the hands of one of you two guys?

3 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

I purchased the book from Inaflash and he can absolutely verify its condition when he sold it to me.

Unfortunately, this isn't very helpful, because Inaflash can't verify its condition when you packed it up to send to David, or its condition when it arrived on David's doorstep.

Edited by edowens71
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The original looks clean, and that corner would have to be neatly folded over to cause that crease.  If it was damaged in transit, the mylar would've kept that shape. An impact usually leaves multiple creases, and also shows obvious damage to the board. 

- any possibility you snagged it on something after scanning it, but thought it was okay?

- are we 100% sure the copy that was scanned was the one that shipped out?  Do you have a second copy you were comparing?

Edited by FineCollector
...
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1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

The original looks clean, and that corner would have to be neatly folded over to cause that crease.  If it was damaged in transit, the mylar would've kept that shape. An impact usually leaves multiple creases, and also shows obvious damage to the board.

 

The original corner was entirely clean. The book was also placed in a second mylar type "holder" to ensure stability when placed inside of a cardboard shipping holder (not 2 pieces of cardboard placed on top of each other) then wrapped with bubble wrap, placed inside a USPS Priority box. 

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

 

- any possibility you snagged it on something after scanning it, but thought it was okay?

Not a chance. 

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

- are we 100% sure the copy that was scanned was the one that shipped out?  Do you have a second copy you were comparing?

We are 100% certain.

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2 hours ago, edowens71 said:

Yikes...what a mess. So let me get this straight...David first "accepts" the book (based on that June 17th message to you), then a week or so later he "reneges" his acceptance of the book (i.e., wants to return the book) because he initially didn't notice the damage. Then, you at first agree to accept the return, but then you "renege" on your agreement to accept the return after he has already put the book back in the mail to you, because you initially didn't notice the damage he was claiming? Ugh.

Yes. David not only accepts the book but writes "Gorgeous Book sir, Really happy to have that in my hands. Looks incredible fresh, doesn't it?" He doesn't renege on its acceptance he sends me the following note stating 

"The package wasn't damaged tbh. When that happens, I always take photos. I would rather keep it than return it. I know you were selling some stuff to get out of a pinch, and I'm not interested in putting you back in a pickle. What I kind of think we do is get it graded, see what happens, and then work something out on the difference? The back corner crease is delicate enough that I'm a bit worried about it breaking if handled too much. I'd like to have the front pressed, but the back corner scares me. I trust Mike DeChellis at Hero Restoration, but I dunno. 

Sorry to turn this into a drag... I noticed the front corner when I first looked at it but didn't inspect the back very well."

As for me, yes, I at first said OK and then when I later saw his scans (because I needed my glasses)  wrote the following:

"I just looked at the photographs and that crease on the BC wasn't there before - and I'm really upset about this - and I'm not looking for a response."

Then I wrote:

People should know that you damaged the book. Too many reputable guys knew the condition of that book. I am totally of the belief that you did something that screwed it up and then passed it back to me and I'm pretty angry - actually I'm absolutely furious. I'm so tired of guys like you who just lie - that crease was not there. So, WTF did you do??? Did you try and get smart and do something that you thought would bring its grade up or did you simply mishandle it?? The truth is I don't believe I missed anything and after the book gets back I'm going to bring this out to the boards. You looked at it up close, said all good and then voila. I call BS.

Then I wrote:

I think you should wait on shipping the book back - I'm not OK with just taking it back - especially with a few things that need explaining first. I genuinely believe you screwed the book up - there's no way I would have missed a crease like that - especially because it wasn't there.

Quote

Another clarifying question...

...to an outside, neutral observer, exactly how is it clear that the damage occurred while the book was in his possession? Just sayin'. I mean, you and I are both Atlantans, so that gives you a leg up in my book...but the Nashvillians might go the other way. :wink:

Could it have been damaged during shipping, or did the damage necessarily occur when it was in the hands of one of you two guys?

Unfortunately, this isn't very helpful, because Inaflash can't verify its condition when you packed it up to send to David, or its condition when it arrived on David's doorstep.

He stated it wasn't damaged during shipping and I know the condition of the book because just days prior I was talking with Vincent in NY about the fact it was graded 8.5 and that it was structurally like a 9.4.

Your right in relation to your other  comment that Ken can't very the condition it was in when I shipped it - but come on, I'm not a kid and anyone who knows me is aware that I'm not in this to take advantage of anyone.

Seriously though Ed...."Gorgeous Book sir, Really happy to have that in my hands. Looks incredible fresh, doesn't it?"

Edited by Mxwll Smrt
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5 minutes ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

but come on, I'm not a kid and anyone who knows me is aware that I'm not in this to take advantage of anyone.

I agree with that...from everything I've seen, I've never had any reason to believe that you would try to pull something on someone. (thumbsu

But, from everything I've seen, I've never had any reason to believe that David would try to pull something on someone, either. 

That's why I was trying to blame the mailman...but I must admit that does seem unlikely. hm

 

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2 minutes ago, edowens71 said:

I agree with that...from everything I've seen, I've never had any reason to believe that you would try to pull something on someone. (thumbsu

But, from everything I've seen, I've never had any reason to believe that David would try to pull something on someone, either. 

That's why I was trying to blame the mailman...but I must admit that does seem unlikely. hm

 

The mailman was the only thing I could think of and brought it up.

Here's a part of one of his PM's:

"What I kind of think we do is get it graded, see what happens, and then work something out on the difference? The back corner crease is delicate enough that I'm a bit worried about it breaking if handled too much. I'd like to have the front pressed, but the back corner scares me. I trust Mike DeChellis at Hero Restoration, but I dunno."

For amplification, there was no crease when I shipped the book. 

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Here's the complete conversation, including the emailed PM that he edited out once he saw I had a time-stamped receipt. You can see that I looked for an amicable resolution, but Eric lost his lid pretty fast. I was traveling when the book arrived, I waited a couple of days to open when I did get back, obviously should have looked at it more carefully, did so later when I went to scan it, and saw the damage. Easy enough. Eric agreed to a return, provided an address, then backed off me shipping it, told me to open it on PayPal, which I did, and of course all the name calling, etc.

My treatment towards buyers and sellers on this board is evident over the years. Eric's irrational leaps and temperamental reaction don't change that.

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3 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Here's the complete conversation, including the emailed PM that he edited out once he saw I had a time-stamped receipt. You can see that I looked for an amicable resolution, but Eric lost his lid pretty fast. I was traveling when the book arrived, I waited a couple of days to open when I did get back, obviously should have looked at it more carefully, did so later when I went to scan it, and saw the damage. Easy enough. Eric agreed to a return, provided an address, then backed off me shipping it, told me to open it on PayPal, which I did, and of course all the name calling, etc.

My treatment towards buyers and sellers on this board is evident over the years. Eric's irrational leaps and temperamental reaction don't change that.

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Yes, I edited the 5:01 - I realized you shipped the book at 4:28pm. Yes, I've been using parts of the conversation to substantiate my claim - there's nothing wrong with that. However with your post there's nothing to see there.... and you still fail to comment on how a guy with over "20 pages" of kudos misses a crease and sends an email saying "Gorgeous book...."

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And let me bring up another scenario because you're a guy who makes a living off of buying and selling.... you thought you could increase the grade of the book somehow.... maybe by pressing it and a dry clean.... and you screwed the corner up. That book was beautiful... and your kudos... you were a total pain in the a*s during the selling process... how about you post all of your other comments bigshot??

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So now we have two sets of "mind changing". The first response from buyer that the book received is acceptable. And then they seller's agreement to take it back. The escalation of name calling and accusations is terrible. 

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36 minutes ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

And let me bring up another scenario because you're a guy who makes a living off of buying and selling.... you thought you could increase the grade of the book somehow.... maybe by pressing it and a dry clean.... and you screwed the corner up. That book was beautiful... and your kudos... you were a total pain in the a*s during the selling process... how about you post all of your other comments bigshot??

I work two jobs. Buying and selling comics is neither of them. I don't press, clean, or otherwise "work on" comics. I leave that for professionals. Hypothesizing solutions that would support your unsupported contentions doesn't accomplish much.

And okay, here are the rest of the comments. 

 

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I really don't know how judgement can be passed as to where the damage happened. I'm not clear on the showing the book to Vincent part. Did Vincent review the book in hand ? Was this after the scans were taken ?  To me, the question is when is a deal completed. The book was received by the buyer and he communicated his satisfaction with the book. IMO, that should be the end of any liability for the seller. 

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52 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

The book was received by the buyer and he communicated his satisfaction with the book. IMO, that should be the end of any liability for the seller.

But then, after that, there's the part where the seller instructed the buyer to send the book back for a refund, even going so far as to confirm shipping address, etc. So, buyer follows those instructions and puts the book in the mail. Then all hell breaks loose. 

Seller's invitation to return the book for a refund throws a slight complication into the "deal completed" logic that you are trying to apply...otherwise, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Ugh.  

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21 minutes ago, edowens71 said:

But then, after that, there's the part where the seller instructed the buyer to send the book back for a refund, even going so far as to confirm shipping address, etc. So, buyer follows those instructions and puts the book in the mail. Then all hell breaks loose. 

Seller's invitation to return the book for a refund throws a slight complication into the "deal completed" logic that you are trying to apply...otherwise, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Ugh.  

I completely agree. If the seller at that point would have said no I would lean towards that begin a done deal. But by the seller's own action they made it "not a done deal" and opened it back up. Personally I judge both parties "change of mind" as being equal no matter which one happened first. 

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Really, people need to consider OP for Probation List as well, if not HOS. He instructed me to return the book for a refund, I did, and here we are. He has jumped to conclusions, made spurious accusations, and is working to damage my reputation on the boards, with his intent clearly indicated in the PMs that I posted.

He could just as easily have sent me a damaged book and now is working to have both the book and the money. That's just as likely a scam as everything he's fabricated so far. Sounds like HOS material to me.

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