Nominating DavidtheDavid 1 1

[RockMyAmadeus]

13 minutes ago, Bird said:

Preview is to the left of the "B" for bold.

Ah, so it is! Thank you! I wouldn't have guessed that. It looks like a magnifying glass over a piece of paper. I guess that stands for "review"? Anyways, thank you.

[vaillant]

4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Ah, so it is! Thank you! I wouldn't have guessed that. It looks like a magnifying glass over a piece of paper. I guess that stands for "review"? Anyways, thank you.

Yes, not intuitive. Little of the new "technology" is.

[RockMyAmadeus]

12 minutes ago, vaillant said:

One has to appreciate your meticulousness when it’s aimed at balance, even when it becomes verbose.

As for the rest: I already commented and I entirely agree with Sharon. I understand both want to be right, and are convinced of their positions. Both positions could be "right" (as there are no specific facts to support them), so it would be a good thing to accept the idea to split the monetary loss and be content with this, as I also told James via PM.

I disagree entirely that Mxwll should be responsible for ANY of the cost of this situation. As he has correctly stated, the buyer didn't let him know there was a problem until after the buyer had the item OPENED for close to, if not at, a week, and, far more egregiously, previously declared his satisfaction with the item, even though he admits to having seen what could have been a problem when he first opened the package.

Who knows what could have happened in the ensuing time? I certainly wouldn't take DavidtheDavid's word for it, especially given his history of inattention to detail, and in light of his own testimony.

The lack of due diligence on the part of the buyer moves all responsibility for this squarely onto his lap.

What should have happened is that, upon receipt, the book should have been fully examined, and the damage addressed, so that Mxwll could, if necessary and warranted, file a USPS claim. If that had happened, it should be an open and shut case, with no rancor on either side.

That didn't happen, and any USPS investigator worth his or her salt, knowing this situation, would say "sorry, you acknowledged your satisfaction with the item upon receipt. Claim denied."

But I do very much agree that neither party has risen to the level of the Probation list, much less the HOS.

Deep breaths all around, and a renewed sense of decorum and professionalism, are what's necessary now.

Edited June 26, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

PS. I've spoken about this before, and I know it seems much less collegial, but it really is confusing for a lot of people when first names, rather than usernames, are used, if they're different.

For example...I had no idea who Randall was...I figured out that it was ChiSoxFan, and I'm no dumb bunny...I think.

I know it can seem a little less friendly, but it's a lot more confusing the other way, especially for casual readers.

[fmaz]

2 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

I've dealt with and have always liked each of you. This whole episode makes me sad. Randall is correct, there is no way to determine who was right.

Anyone can make a mistake, either of you could have missed something. I've done that, all of us have done that, because no one is perfect. I once creased the back of an old book while putting it in the bag and board. I never noticed it. The buyer told me and refused my offer of a refund. We still talk all the time. Stuff happens.

I'm going to make a suggestion.

Send the book to CGC and have it slabbed, and sell it. Split the difference after the sale. Who knows, the book could even go for the same amount? If  you want to have it pressed, have it done at CGC. I am not saying they would be my top choice, but it's in one place and less likely to get lost somewhere traveling, or have more damage.

Sell it somewhere neutral like Comiclink at an auction.

Then just walk away and think how lucky you were that this was a comic accident and not a car accident where someone was injured.

Neither of you belong on any kind of list, both nice guys who believe they are right. I can't imagine anything deliberate was done anywhere, chalk it up as a twist of fate and move on.

I'm not sure how everyone just blew past Sha's reasoned, calm suggestion.

I do have a law degree (but I'm everyone's FAVORITE kind of lawyer... the non-practicing kind)... and I can tell you that in a case with a dispute over damage to personal property? There are no winners, just losers.
Ever have two friends go through a messy divorce? Two neighbors disputing a property line? etc? The both spend tens of thousands of dollars fighinting each other in court... when if they'd just split all that and walked away in the begnining it would be in their pockets, not the lawyers.

Here, there was clearly something that happend to this book.  There aren't that many possibilities

1. It happened after the scans, but before it was shipped.
2. It happened while it was in the process of being shipped
3. It happend after it was received.

But let's face it, it's pretty MINOR damage, so ... I'm sorry both of you... if #1 or #3 happened, you have to accept the POSSIBILITY that it happened on your watch, and you didn't notice.  Because otherwise it HAD to be #2.

Regardless, though, I don't think either of you, boardies with good reputations, would have taken action to cover up some mistake you made and put the blame on the OTHER person.  NO ONE HERE thinks that of either of you.  So listen to Sha.  This book is cursed... sell it, split the money, and walk away. 

Seller got angry (it happens) and lost his temper.  Buyer reacted to being attacked and attacked back (that happens too).  Nothing that two great reputations won't wash right away.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

PS. I've spoken about this before, and I know it seems much less collegial, but it really is confusing for a lot of people when first names, rather than usernames, are used, if they're different.

For example...I had no idea who Randall was...I figured out that it was ChiSoxFan, and I'm no dumb bunny...I think.

I know it can seem a little less friendly, but it's a lot more confusing the other way, especially for casual readers.

I think everyone here refers to me by first name because I've probably bought something from everyone on here at one time or another.  

(Which actually includes you as well, though it was an eBay transaction and not a sale here -- FWIW, no shameless plug intended for you, but the transaction went as smoothly as I would have expected it to -- 100% perfect all around.  ).

I agree that it's better to use board names, especially in anything of an "official" capacity such as situations like this, to avoid confusion.  I have trouble remembering names sometimes myself, and even though I've come to know a lot of people by real names here over time, I sometimes have to look back through old PM's to make sure I don't refer to someone by the wrong name.   

And to add in, skypinkblu's (Sharon) suggestion seems to be one that would be worthwhile looking into.  

Edited June 26, 2017 by ChiSoxFan

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, fmaz said:

I do have a law degree (but I'm everyone's FAVORITE kind of lawyer... the non-practicing kind)... and I can tell you that in a case with a dispute over damage to personal property? There are no winners, just losers.
Ever have two friends go through a messy divorce? Two neighbors disputing a property line? etc? The both spend tens of thousands of dollars fighinting each other in court... when if they'd just split all that and walked away in the begnining it would be in their pockets, not the lawyers.

Here, there was clearly something that happend to this book.  There aren't that many possibilities

1. It happened after the scans, but before it was shipped.
2. It happened while it was in the process of being shipped
3. It happend after it was received.

But let's face it, it's pretty MINOR damage, so ... I'm sorry both of you... if #1 or #3 happened, you have to accept the POSSIBILITY that it happened on your watch, and you didn't notice.  Because otherwise it HAD to be #2.

Regardless, though, I don't think either of you, boardies with good reputations, would have taken action to cover up some mistake you made and put the blame on the OTHER person.  NO ONE HERE thinks that of either of you.  So listen to Sha.  This book is cursed... sell it, split the money, and walk away. 

Seller got angry (it happens) and lost his temper.  Buyer reacted to being attacked and attacked back (that happens too).  Nothing that two great reputations won't wash right away.

 

Didn't blow past whatever it was that was said. Disagreed with it.

Buyer, by not doing his due diligence, forfeited the right to "split the damages"...if he ever had such a right. Not only did he express satisfaction with the book, he admits to knowing there was a potential problem with the book upon receipt and STILL expressed satisfaction, in writing.

Thus ends the seller's obligation.

It would be one thing if the buyer showed ANY sort of contrition or humility about the situation...but he has not, and returned tit for tat. In that case, any good will he may have enjoyed is gone.

By the way...even if there was a "split the money" scenario, the buyer would only be entitled to half the difference in value, if any, between the undamaged book and the damaged book, not half the value of the entire book (unless he wasn't refunded the original amount paid, of course.)

Edited June 26, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

41 minutes ago, ChiSoxFan said:

 

(Which actually includes you as well, though it was an eBay transaction and not a sale here -- FWIW, no shameless plug intended for you, but the transaction went as smoothly as I would have expected it to -- 100% perfect all around.  ).

 

Really...? Cool. I had no idea.  Glad it went well. Do I have to look for a "Randall" to figure out which book it was?

[ChiSoxFan]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Really...? Cool. I had no idea.  Glad it went well. Do I have to look for a "Randall" to figure out which book it was?

  My user id on eBay is cubsrus99 (The irony right, considering my board name here?   FWIW, I grew up in Northwest Indiana, started out as a White Sox Fan, but started watching the Cubs when Harry Caray moved over from old local station Channel 44 to start doing Cubs games on WGN when the Sox moved their telecasts to cable -- a big mistake at the time, since it kept a large number of Sox fans from watching their team and pushed them with Harry to the Northsiders.  I consider myself to be a fan of both, though my allegiance to the Sox comes first if they ever meet).

I picked up a high grade (NM+) Year One set from you over a year ago.  Priced great, shipped immediately, packaged great.  Couldn't have been happier with everything.  I rarely buy on eBay (and haven't sold anything on there since 2000, I think?  It's been forever), but I have made a couple of purchases over the last two years, a couple of which have been with board members I trusted from transactions on here. 

[maidenmate91]

49 minutes ago, ChiSoxFan said:

I think everyone here refers to me by first name because I've probably bought something from everyone on here at one time or another.  

(Which actually includes you as well, though it was an eBay transaction and not a sale here -- FWIW, no shameless plug intended for you, but the transaction went as smoothly as I would have expected it to -- 100% perfect all around.  ).

I agree that it's better to use board names, especially in anything of an "official" capacity such as situations like this, to avoid confusion.  I have trouble remembering names sometimes myself, and even though I've come to know a lot of people by real names here over time, I sometimes have to look back through old PM's to make sure I don't refer to someone by the wrong name.   

And to add in, skypinkblu's (Sharon) suggestion seems to be one that would be worthwhile looking into.  

Randall is the model example of how all boardies should be. As for this situation, it's never too late for diplomacy, pride is a vile thing to swallow. In this case it may be an inevitability for both parties, and there is no shame in this.

[vaillant]

1 hour ago, fmaz said:

I'm not sure how everyone just blew past Sha's reasoned, calm suggestion.

I do have a law degree (but I'm everyone's FAVORITE kind of lawyer... the non-practicing kind)... and I can tell you that in a case with a dispute over damage to personal property? There are no winners, just losers.
Ever have two friends go through a messy divorce? Two neighbors disputing a property line? etc? The both spend tens of thousands of dollars fighinting each other in court... when if they'd just split all that and walked away in the begnining it would be in their pockets, not the lawyers.

Here, there was clearly something that happend to this book.  There aren't that many possibilities

1. It happened after the scans, but before it was shipped.
2. It happened while it was in the process of being shipped
3. It happend after it was received.

But let's face it, it's pretty MINOR damage, so ... I'm sorry both of you... if #1 or #3 happened, you have to accept the POSSIBILITY that it happened on your watch, and you didn't notice.  Because otherwise it HAD to be #2.

Regardless, though, I don't think either of you, boardies with good reputations, would have taken action to cover up some mistake you made and put the blame on the OTHER person.  NO ONE HERE thinks that of either of you.  So listen to Sha.  This book is cursed... sell it, split the money, and walk away. 

Seller got angry (it happens) and lost his temper.  Buyer reacted to being attacked and attacked back (that happens too).  Nothing that two great reputations won't wash right away.

 

Hey, I did not blow past Sha's post, I fully endorsed it!

@RockMyAmadeus I understand your point, and I partially agree, but it can happen to procrastinate a detailed examination, even for a costly book.
I agree that it would have been a lot of good if David kept calm, but I understand the initial feeling, after the accusations and implied malice. Some people have a tough time in changing their mood, even if they are writing and they have time to do so. That’s why I criticize both but at the same time see the respective reasons. A good motive not to buy costly books in nice grade!

And I just can’t avoid calling @ChiSoxFan with his name. He let me have a Fantastic Four #67 that he already took (way before it became "hot") and thanks to his gesture of kindness I was able to acquire subsequently various copies of the book and find one which fully satisfied me. Being one of my favorite books, I was so grateful that I will always "remember Randall"!

 

[vaillant]

18 minutes ago, maidenmate91 said:

Randall is the model example of how all boardies should be. As for this situation, it's never too late for diplomacy, pride is a vile thing to swallow. In this case it may be an inevitability for both parties, and there is no shame in this.

Plus, diplomacy is not a simple "posture": Pope John XXIII (Angelo Roncalli) showed at which moral heights the role can be performed – as a virtue.
Briefly detailed also in his delightfully drawn biography by Joe Sinnott (on Treasure Chest).

[Jaxxon]

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I disagree entirely that Mxwll should be responsible for ANY of the cost of this situation.

Sorry to stick my big nose in this but didn't he agree to a return? If so I thnk skypinkblue's solution is the best one.

[Paddy_McShillihan]

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

In other words...you saw what might be damage when you first opened the package...didn't inspect it carefully at that time...expressed your satisfaction with the book...then, 6-7 days later, you decide to look at it more closely and THEN you had a problem with it...?

For a $1500 book .... I'm not messing around with Kudos and going over book with fine tooth comb ... If I buy a $200 book I'm examining  closely and  checking for colour touch ... so the 6-7 days is kinda fishy 

if this was an ASM 261 VF+ or some spoon then who gives a rats a$&!?

but it's not 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Paddy_McShillihan

[Bomber-Bob]

5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

PS. I've spoken about this before, and I know it seems much less collegial, but it really is confusing for a lot of people when first names, rather than usernames, are used, if they're different.

For example...I had no idea who Randall was...I figured out that it was ChiSoxFan, and I'm no dumb bunny...I think.

I know it can seem a little less friendly, but it's a lot more confusing the other way, especially for casual readers.

I agree with this. It is confusing.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Bomber-Bob

[Bird]

5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

PS. I've spoken about this before, and I know it seems much less collegial, but it really is confusing for a lot of people when first names, rather than usernames, are used, if they're different.

For example...I had no idea who Randall was...I figured out that it was ChiSoxFan, and I'm no dumb bunny...I think.

I know it can seem a little less friendly, but it's a lot more confusing the other way, especially for casual readers.

I always refer to people by their board names; I feel it is respectful to call them the name that they have chosen to be known as. And it is faaaar less confusing. When people call me by my given name I almost always say "who is this Sean character?"

I also want to point out that I am enjoying your presence here far more now that you do not constantly engage mr hype his variants for their low print run guy. )At least it seems that way to moe.) Yes it is worth doing once in a while and yes every comic is someone's first but it is much more pleasant reading your posts lately.

[Logan510]

9 minutes ago, Bird said:

I always refer to people by their board names; I feel it is respectful to call them the name that they have chosen to be known as. And it is faaaar less confusing. When people call me by my given name I almost always say "who is this Sean character?"

I also want to point out that I am enjoying your presence here far more now that you do not constantly engage mr hype his variants for their low print run guy. )At least it seems that way to moe.) Yes it is worth doing once in a while and yes every comic is someone's first but it is much more pleasant reading your posts lately.

Who's moe?

[Bird]

Just now, Logan510 said:

Who's moe?

This guy.  I don't know his board name, sorry! 

[Logan510]

1 minute ago, Bird said:

This guy.  I don't know his board name, sorry! 

I just find it all so terribly confusing

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 hours ago, ChiSoxFan said:

  My user id on eBay is cubsrus99 (The irony right, considering my board name here?   FWIW, I grew up in Northwest Indiana, started out as a White Sox Fan, but started watching the Cubs when Harry Caray moved over from old local station Channel 44 to start doing Cubs games on WGN when the Sox moved their telecasts to cable -- a big mistake at the time, since it kept a large number of Sox fans from watching their team and pushed them with Harry to the Northsiders.  I consider myself to be a fan of both, though my allegiance to the Sox comes first if they ever meet).

I picked up a high grade (NM+) Year One set from you over a year ago.  Priced great, shipped immediately, packaged great.  Couldn't have been happier with everything.  I rarely buy on eBay (and haven't sold anything on there since 2000, I think?  It's been forever), but I have made a couple of purchases over the last two years, a couple of which have been with board members I trusted from transactions on here. 

Cool! I remember that set. I love those books. I won't tell you how many copies I have.  (it's more than a short box)