Incredible Hulk #181 - is it *that* red-hot? 17 17

[BabyAteMyDingo]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:09 PM, grendelbo said:

My copy, though mid-grade, has an identical defect - placement, length and severity. I wonder if it's an uncommon production flaw on some copies.  🤔

That is a good point. A likely production error. There is an example of that in Batman #234. A scrape on Batman's shoulder of varying severity. It starts as a white dot on many copies, then ends as a scrape shown here. There is ONE copy on EBay that shows Batman's shoulder complete without even the white dot! That is probably very rare as I have seen almost all copies have the white dot and varying degrees of the "scrape".

white color

Edited October 7, 2021 by BabyAteMyDingo

[lou_fine]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:27 PM, lou_fine said:

You do realize that the CGC 9.9 copy was graded way back in their first year of operations when grading standards were much more in line with traditional grading standards prior to CGC and hence most likely not yet been fine-tuned to line up with CCG's business model.  As others have already stated here, it is highly doubtful this CGC 9.9 graded copy would come back with the same grade if ever resubmitted with today's grading standards focused so much on fixable bends and pressable NCB's. 

 

On 10/5/2021 at 6:03 PM, MGsimba77 said:

Okay but is it really the case that standards were consistently more lenient in 99, 2000? I thought it was more on the side of erratic or if anything more strict. I don't know that we can definitively say everything was over graded in those years? Why is it that books in the original slabs are a selling point and not a drawback? 

It should be pointed out that nowhere in my post did I say that the standards were more lenient or softer back when CGC first started up in 2000.  What I am saying is that their undisclosed standards have shifted or shall we say "devolved" over the years, and in my own personal POV, not necessarily in a good way.  Clearly, their focus has shifted more towards money and tweaking their undisclosed grading standards to facilitate making money on the exact same book multiple times through various forms of resubmissions (i.e. CPR, resto removal, resto definition changes, new pedigrees and new labels, reholders, etc.) as opposed to be just being one and done.    

As copied from a post which I had made in another thread here on the GA boards earlier this morning:

On 10/9/2021 at 10:50 AM, lou_fine said:

Looks like you are clearly dating yourself here as I believe your definition of grading here is much more in line with what it was prior to CGC.  

Not that I disagree with it since I am also an old long time collector from the days of yore prior to CGC coming into place.  I actually prefer it much more so than having a grading company decide that near invisible tiny NCB ticks and bends that can only be seen by holding the book up at a certain angle to the light should be moved to the top of their grading defect hit chart, while clearly visible pressing defects such as impacted or indented staples and the likes are now pretty much treated like production defects and to be discounted or minimized for grading purposes.  Of course, we all know the reason for this and it only makes business sense not to have your undisclosed grading standards impede the insatiable hunger of your mother Corp.  

I remember sending in about a dozen GA books to be graded back when CGC first opened their doors as a sample test of their grading system and also just in time for the big Greg Manning Auction.  The books looked nice and clearly they were graded much more in line with the traditional grading standards that were already in place prior to CGC as they all came in between CGC 9.2 and CGC 9.6.  My bet is that if those exact same books were sent in today without any "maximizatioin of potential" being perfomed on them, and with Heritage arriving on the scene in 2002 and CGC's ever increasing focus on additional revenue generating defects, they would probably come back anywhere from grades ranging from CGC 8.0 through to CGC 9.2, if I am lucky.  Especially since the "pancaked look", even those with the CCS generated visible defects, appears to be new visual repsentation of what a HG book should look like in today's grading environment.     

BTW:  If given the choice, I would definitely prefer graded books with original labels over the ones with the more recent labels due to the simple fact that there was clearly a lot less manipulation of the books back then, whereas it's pretty much almost a necessaity for the submittor to at least do a pre-screen for pressing at a minumum in order to avoid their books getting hammered upon grading.    

[lou_fine]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:09 PM, grendelbo said:

On 10/5/2021 at 6:49 PM, Homeboy32 said:

not to mention the white line under the word "Canadian"

My copy, though mid-grade, has an identical defect - placement, length and severity. I wonder if it's an uncommonproduction flaw on some copies.  🤔

That's a definite production flaw as I noticed the exact same flaw in the exact same place, albeit it a tiny bit larger on my HG copy of Hulk 181. 

What's clearly more annoying though is the tiny crease which I noticed at the bottom right corner of the book upon closer inspection which I don't remember seeing before and one which is clearly NOT production related.  Although everything else looks good to go, it still kind of  me off now since I clearly must have over paid for the book at the time then.    

[MGsimba77]

Man these Ebay auctions are absolutely brutal if you're on the selling side! YIKES 😱 🥶! Anyone out there hunting for a bargain?...throw in a bid on Ebay. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by MGsimba77

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 5/25/2022 at 12:37 PM, MGsimba77 said:

Man these Ebay auctions are absolutely brutal if you're on the selling side! YIKES 😱 🥶! Anyone out there hunting for a bargain?...throw in a bid on Ebay. 

Link?

[MGsimba77]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:14 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Link?

More of a general observation but had this one in mind. There's no way that copy should be anywhere under 30k at the least. Even including the tax hit it's still low.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:34 PM, MGsimba77 said:

More of a general observation but had this one in mind. There's no way that copy should be anywhere under 30k at the least. Even including the tax hit it's still low.

I’d be concerned that the book has impacted the walls of the inner well and suffered some minor SCS along the top and bottom edges. Maybe an illusion, but it looks a little suspect....

 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:34 PM, MGsimba77 said:

More of a general observation but had this one in mind. There's no way that copy should be anywhere under 30k at the least. Even including the tax hit it's still low.

Thanks.  That is a low price ... I guess Wolverine is a little bit off the radar for now, but I'm sure the day will come soon when everyone will go nuts again.

I'm in the market for #180 in 9.6 WP so I hope it tanks until I get a copy!  

[Dick Pontoon]

Seller's feedback is nothing to write home about (1036 negs, 551 neutral), that may figured into the hammer price, too. Think they're a board member, too.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Dick Pontoon

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:55 PM, Pontoon said:

Seller's feedback is nothing to write home about (1036 negs, 551 neutral), that may figured into the hammer price, too. Think they're a board member, too.

What little I know about that seller is that they deal mostly in cards not comics, and that they have a very long and mixed history.

[thehumantorch]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:55 PM, Pontoon said:

Seller's feedback is nothing to write home about (1036 negs, 551 neutral), that may figured into the hammer price, too. Think they're a board member, too.

Agreed, I'm pretty sure that's a boardie and I believe we've had discussions about him before.  

[F For Fake]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:55 PM, Pontoon said:

Seller's feedback is nothing to write home about (1036 negs, 551 neutral), that may figured into the hammer price, too. Think they're a board member, too.

Yes, the feedback would be an absolute STOP sign for me, much less a red light. That would surely give anyone spending serious money pause.

[bpc3qh]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:40 PM, thehumantorch said:

Agreed, I'm pretty sure that's a boardie and I believe we've had discussions about him before.  

Probstein is on the boards? I know him from cards, primarily, so that's news to me.

[MGsimba77]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:16 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I’d be concerned that the book has impacted the walls of the inner well and suffered some minor SCS along the top and bottom edges. Maybe an illusion, but it looks a little suspect....

 

Always with the eagle eyes 😂. I'd speculate more to do with the feedback and the tendency of Ebay being a lousy auction platform for high dollar books. We see that type of micro slab issue quite often. I don't know If I'd call it terribly uncommon.

[joeypost]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:09 PM, grendelbo said:

My copy, though mid-grade, has an identical defect - placement, length and severity. I wonder if it's an uncommon production flaw on some copies.  🤔

Vertical speckling. Many copies have this issue. Happened during production. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:44 PM, MGsimba77 said:

Always with the eagle eyes 😂. I'd speculate more to do with the feedback and the tendency of Ebay being a lousy auction platform for high dollar books. We see that type of micro slab issue quite often. I don't know If I'd call it terribly uncommon.

I don’t press books, so any post-slabbing dent is permanent.  I have a inspect pics/scans very closely to make sure no SCS has occurred. 

[alexgross.com]

last sale of a 9.0 on gpa is $12,750, which beats the 12 mo average, and the 2021 average. it's not a record high, but i think it suggests this book continues to do just fine. everyone seems to understand by now that 2022 prices are down some from the 2021 insanity, thanks to economic uncertainty, global war, and massive inflation. if things stabilize on these fronts, i expect this book in all grades to resume it's upward trajectory in most grades. 

[Gotham Kid]

@lou_fine

yesterday on comiclink

[lou_fine]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:33 AM, Gotham Kid said:

@lou_fine

yesterday on comiclink

Looks like I still win by a tad as I'll see your Hulk 181 for $75K and raised you a Marvel Super-Heroes 18 for $76K from last week:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dmarvel%2Bsuper%2Bheroes%2B18%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item_1707644&id=1707644&itemType=0

Seriously though, remember when it wasn't really that long ago when we were all shocked as Hulk 181 finally smashed its way through that $40K ceiling threshold that it kept bumping up against and finally soared all the way right through to something like $59K on CL.    

[Gotham Kid]

I remember not too long ago when 181s were selling for 6 figures