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First Appearance: Batman who laughs???
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126 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, CKinTO said:

This was posted on previous threads awhile ago (I think the Moderns Heating Up thread), but just in case people hadn't seen it, CBI had an article back in December discussing the potential books for 1st app. Whatever your opinion on CBI, just posting for reference :whistle:

https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/12/06/the-batman-who-laughs/

Print run and value are (should be) completely irrelevant when it comes to determining the 1st appearance because they have zero impact on the story.  That's all that should matter: the art, the words, and the story.

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The Metal #2 looks like more of a cameo appearance...It should get some cred, but TT12 is a full appearance where he is actually interacting in the story, plus being on the cover is a biggie. Those who are clamoring for Metal #2 to be the official CGC first appearance have likely invested in Metal #2, which is still a legitimate book...just not as much as TT12. I had a TT12, which I sold. So I have no horse in this race.

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33 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

The two books came out the same day. He just said that's the reading order.

Isn't the reading order apart of the story? 

 

If one simply chooses to read TT12 before DNM2 that doesnt change the fact the reading order for the story is DNM2 comes before TT12 making his appearance in that issue his first appearance prior to what happens in the story of TT12. 

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1 hour ago, SpeedforceKJ said:

Isn't the reading order apart of the story? 

 

If one simply chooses to read TT12 before DNM2 that doesnt change the fact the reading order for the story is DNM2 comes before TT12 making his appearance in that issue his first appearance prior to what happens in the story of TT12. 

When it was released is what matters. Think of ret-con's, wouldn't those be first in reading order appearance of a character?

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Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation?

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4 hours ago, CKinTO said:

Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation?

And they get it wrong a lot more than they should.

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16 hours ago, CKinTO said:

Not to mention the fact that just because Snyder said DNM2 was first in reading order, that's not exactly the same as him saying DNM2 is the 1st appearance of BWL. Bottom line, we need CGC to take a view! I'm a little surprised at their answer of why they haven't yet - CGC takes a view all the time on which is 1st app vs not, without confirmation?

Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second).

Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL).

We shall C ... GC.

Edited by Tec-Tac-Toe
First full appearance - DNM2
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6 hours ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second).

Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL).

We shall C ... GC.

Exact same scenario as the black suit Spidey. Market decided on Secret Wars.

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7 hours ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

Well, since DNM2 is first in reading order it can be argued that it is the first appearance of BWL compared to TT12 if one were, for example, to compare them to fraternal twins (and I will because of the characters involved and the two comic books), there is always an older/first born twin (first appearance twin, if you will; perhaps by a second).

Thus, although DNM2 and TT12 were released on the same day, as posted here by others, DNM2, again, arguably, has the first appearance of BWL and TT12 has the first full appearance, as it is termed (Edit: although I believe some here argue that DNM2 is the first full appearance of the BWL).

We shall C ... GC.

Yep, I hear you - your clarification on "1st full appearance" is what I was getting at, eg. just because DNM2 is first in reading order, it still might be thought of as a "cameo" and that TT12 is first full appearance. Was just noting that those are somewhat 2 different (though related) points, and just because Snyder said DNM2 is first, doesn't necessarily mean it's the true 1st app, as some others had been implying

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1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

Exact same scenario as the black suit Spidey. Market decided on Secret Wars.

No, the market decided on ASM #252 over MTU #141, even though they both came out on exactly the same day (I have a specific memory of this when I went to buy them at my local comic shop, and recall having that exact discussion. The Shop was limiting how many copies of ASM 252 you could buy, but not #MTU 141). Secret Wars 8, however, would "come first in the reading order."

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Just curious, but has the market REALLY decided that TT 12 is the 1st app of BMWL? Or, is this simply a supply and demand thing? Meaning, because there was a much lower print run on TT 12, its value is higher than DNM 2, and it just gained momentum as the "1st" appearance simply due to relative value?

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4 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Just curious, but has the market REALLY decided that TT 12 is the 1st app of BMWL? Or, is this simply a supply and demand thing? Meaning, because there was a much lower print run on TT 12, its value is higher than DNM 2, and it just gained momentum as the "1st" appearance simply due to relative value?

Yes agree... unfortunately the 2 are kind of intermingled, as the value for TT12 went up, people started indicating "1st app BWL" more frequently to get more views...

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12 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

No, the market decided on ASM #252 over MTU #141, even though they both came out on exactly the same day (I have a specific memory of this when I went to buy them at my local comic shop, and recall having that exact discussion. The Shop was limiting how many copies of ASM 252 you could buy, but not #MTU 141). Secret Wars 8, however, would "come first in the reading order."

Ah, had my issues mixed up. At any rate, you see the similarity. Not surprising that ASM was chosen over MTU though.

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