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Prez nominated for probation
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86 posts in this topic

On 4/27/2018 at 6:11 PM, revat said:

because the buyer is not in the same position that he otherwise would have been had the seller performed the contract. 

For example:  If you own a restaurant, and you prepay for vegetables, the vendor shouldn't be able to show up two days after the veggies were supposed to be delivered and hand you your money back and say, "Sorry bro".  You might have had to pay more to buy veggies at Whole Foods instead.  The seller should not only refund your money, but the difference (if you can show evidence of it) between the original cost of the groceries and the cost of the groceries bought at Whole Foods, and potentially the wages paid to the worker who had to go shopping (and gas, etc), and if quantifiable any business lost.  Its not often pushed for here on the boards, but in most cases that is how contracts are understood (unless remedies are otherwise stated).  Whether its worth enforcing is another issue.

 

I think customarily here on the boards, usually if the person gets refund, usually we don't go probation because we're getting into technical legal remedies.  And in this case, I would tend to agree with that as well, unless the buyer can show they've actually paid for a more expensive copy, though I can see why they wouldn't (buy a more expensive one), without any assurance that they'd get paid by the original seller.  But in this case, I think behavior the behavior of the seller hits enough factors to be grounds for the Hall of Shame.

1.  Multiple Occasions - Two buyers have had complaints about non-completion.

2.  Dishonesty - Repeatedly not providing requested information about shipping info, to the point where dishonesty has to be assumed.

3.  Bad/lack of Communication - The second complainant was simply ignored after posting a good faith purchase in a public thread.

4.  Knowledge of the existence of the Probation List - The seller even threatened using it, knowing that there was this mechanism of PL/HOS is in existence, making his violation of the contract even more egregious.

5.  Other ridiculous/aggressive/disturbing actions - The notion of even charging $50/hr to find shipping information or respond to messages is ludicrous and unconscionable.  Asking for repayment after a refund has occurred? WTF?  Suggesting that the buyer go to the USPS for more info when ZERO shipping info was provided?

 

I would opine that there is simply no value to having a person like this selling/buying on the boards at all.  I vote no on PL, yes on HOS.  If the buyer goes over and above to make all of this right in BOTH cases he can try and make a case to be removed from the HOS.

 

 

Side note:  While we're talking HOS, we should probably throw ComicXposure on the HOS, even though they're not a member of the boards.  They've just ripped off sooooo many boardies.  I don't think it hurts the boards at all but could save a few folks from getting ripped off.

+1 on ComicXposure

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On 4/29/2018 at 10:25 AM, crassus said:

One question, in your narrative of events you write "Between March 16, 2018, and March 22, 2018, Prez and I went back and forth regarding issues related to shipping." Can you explain what the back and forth over shipping was about exactly? 

I can understand why bluehorseshoe was going back and forth about shipping. Having bought from Prez before I too did a double take when he gave me a shipping quote. Before this order for all previous orders, Prez only charged me like $7 for a USPS priority mail flat rate envelope. When he  quoted $15 for the 8 comics I bought I stated that a medium flat rate box was like $13.65 so why $15? Prez said that the $15 covered the trip for him to travel across the border from Canada to ship the box in the U.S. and also for the 4% Paypal fee that is charged to Canadian sellers. I paid the $15 but Prez later decided to put the comics in a flat rate envelope and refunded me $6 for a total of $9 for shipping. He put that info in the Paypal partial refund email instead of a pm. I'm sure he knew I didn't like the shipping cost even though I didn't go on about it. I wasn't going to go back and forth with him so I decided to pay and not deal with him any further after that sales thread. The partial refund was commendable but asking for Paypal fees in pm was what I didn't care for.

PrezCGCboardconvo.thumb.PNG.606dddc45f1ba207ca8b981e86940d7f.PNG

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8 hours ago, kairos70 said:

I can understand why bluehorseshoe was going back and forth about shipping. Having bought from Prez before I too did a double take when he gave me a shipping quote. Before this order for all previous orders, Prez only charged me like $7 for a USPS priority mail flat rate envelope. When he  quoted $15 for the 8 comics I bought I stated that a medium flat rate box was like $13.65 so why $15? Prez said that the $15 covered the trip for him to travel across the border from Canada to ship the box in the U.S. and also for the 4% Paypal fee that is charged to Canadian sellers. I paid the $15 but Prez later decided to put the comics in a flat rate envelope and refunded me $6 for a total of $9 for shipping. He put that info in the Paypal partial refund email instead of a pm. I'm sure he knew I didn't like the shipping cost even though I didn't go on about it. I wasn't going to go back and forth with him so I decided to pay and not deal with him any further after that sales thread. The partial refund was commendable but asking for Paypal fees in pm was what I didn't care for.

PrezCGCboardconvo.thumb.PNG.606dddc45f1ba207ca8b981e86940d7f.PNG

So the fact that he explained to you that he padded ths standard shipping fee by $1.35 to cover gas, his time, tolls and those darn paypal fees, is enough for you to no longer buy from him?   You realize when you ask for an explanation of a price difference and the seller says they bumped it up to cover"things" including even paypal costs ISN'T the same as increasing a price and asking a buyer to cover paypal fees, right?   

Edited by bababooey
typo
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1 hour ago, bababooey said:

So the fact that he explained to you that he padded ths standard shipping fee by $1.35 to cover gas, his time, tolls and those darn paypal fees, is enough for you to no longer buy from him?   You realize when you ask for an explanation of a price difference and the seller says they bumped it up to cover"things" including even paypal costs ISN'T the same as increasing a price and asking a buyer to cover paypal fees, right?   

Prez didn't mention he was from Canada in his sales thread. He had a different ID in the first sales thread I purchased from him. So did I before the board changed. I don't buy from outside the U.S especially in bulk because postage is cost prohibitive. The price difference I was referring to was $7 flat rate vs $15 not $13.65 vs. $15 so its an $8 difference. Asking for paypal fees is against the rules, you know that, whether they are pesky or not. Prez even clowned some other seller in their thread for asking for buyers to cover fees but he was doing the same thing just in pm.

Edited by kairos70
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10 hours ago, kairos70 said:

I can understand why bluehorseshoe was going back and forth about shipping. Having bought from Prez before I too did a double take when he gave me a shipping quote. Before this order for all previous orders, Prez only charged me like $7 for a USPS priority mail flat rate envelope. When he  quoted $15 for the 8 comics I bought I stated that a medium flat rate box was like $13.65 so why $15? Prez said that the $15 covered the trip for him to travel across the border from Canada to ship the box in the U.S. and also for the 4% Paypal fee that is charged to Canadian sellers. I paid the $15 but Prez later decided to put the comics in a flat rate envelope and refunded me $6 for a total of $9 for shipping. He put that info in the Paypal partial refund email instead of a pm. I'm sure he knew I didn't like the shipping cost even though I didn't go on about it. I wasn't going to go back and forth with him so I decided to pay and not deal with him any further after that sales thread. The partial refund was commendable but asking for Paypal fees in pm was what I didn't care for.

PrezCGCboardconvo.thumb.PNG.606dddc45f1ba207ca8b981e86940d7f.PNG

Am I the only one that thinks $15 is quite reasonable for shipping?

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11 minutes ago, entalmighty1 said:

Am I the only one that thinks $15 is quite reasonable for shipping?

Depending, of course, on the shipping method/service.  But yes in most cases for USPS Priority (with adequate insurance, signature confirmation - if not free for the level of insurance), I believe would be pretty on target.

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20 minutes ago, entalmighty1 said:

Am I the only one that thinks $15 is quite reasonable for shipping?

Ok Let me add this Up For all of this as it has been 48 Hours since I notified him and I would like this put to Bed.  

1.  In My Circumstance He Clearly is Disreputable, he refuses to Communicate AFTER he agreed to the Sale (or My Purchase of his said items) or on Multiple PMs.  Therefore not agreeing to the rules of the Boards

2.  In Bluehorshoe's (who loves Endicot Steele) case he just backed out of the contract and then tried to charge him Hollywood Lawyer like fees for his Time.. I am Sorry your majesty You don't get to aaume that anyone here gives a damn about your time.  I do not charge or Discount my food bill from a restaurant for driving to its location.  

3.  Now a Third Boardie Mr. Kairos has comes  forward with Unseen unmentioned and NON Disclosed addition fees.   

 

OK Small Rant here.  

Enough Of this debate on Didn't he return the money ? You weren't Charged so you didn't lose?  and "So what it wasn't a large fee" .  I Personally will obviously never  trust him again.  But Why should others be subject to his bad Character as well.  I expect quite a few Joiners soon as CGC becomes even more popular than ever with the new Youtube  Channels I see popping up.  Unboxing Videos are getting  Views like never before.  Comicbook men on AMC is now on Streaming Services and The Massive Response to BP and IW will only Increase the hobby enthusiasts.  As Veterans of this Group we should keep the Integrity of this group as our top priority, ( and then try to snipe hose awesome raws at a discount)    

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@prez's first problem was being vague on exactly what shipping amount was going to be charged to his buyers... $7 or $15. Leaving things open to interpretation is never the greatest thing to do.
Personally, If I paid $35 for a single magazine, or had a total of 8 comics,  and I wanted the shipment to arrive to me safely, given the option of $7 flat rate envelope or $15 box, I'd have chosen the box, because a reasonable person should understand that it is not only safer, but more expensive as well.
The only problem I would have had comes on the back end, meaning, if I paid for $15 worth of shipping and did not receive it.

Imo, I think prez could have defended his points pretty well early on in this thread. But leaving @Jaydee blowing in the wind certainly seems to have been his downfall.

 

Edited by DeadOne
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4 hours ago, bababooey said:

So the fact that he explained to you that he padded ths standard shipping fee by $1.35 to cover gas, his time, tolls and those darn paypal fees, is enough for you to no longer buy from him?   You realize when you ask for an explanation of a price difference and the seller says they bumped it up to cover"things" including even paypal costs ISN'T the same as increasing a price and asking a buyer to cover paypal fees, right?   

If I understand you correctly, the difference you are making is between public and posted invoice totals (which were calculated in advance to include the seller's overheads, in this case among other things paypal fees) and public and posted invoice totals which then in PM are increased further to put the burden of these fees on the buyer, is this correct?

If I understand this correctly I do see the point. When I price each item (in my case shipping is flat rate...so it never changes) I am looking at my total costs in determining what sale price makes it worth my while to sell. There is nothing that says paypal fees, as with any other "overhead" selling costs, cannot be built in to the sticker price of an item. I always assume that is the case for every seller or business. I assume, for example, that the sticker price at a given retail outlet has built into it what they are paying out to VISA or other card services, for example, along with their heating, insurance, labour...and so on...

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7 hours ago, kairos70 said:

Prez didn't mention he was from Canada in his sales thread. He had a different ID in the first sales thread I purchased from him. So did I before the board changed. I don't buy from outside the U.S especially in bulk because postage is cost prohibitive. The price difference I was referring to was $7 flat rate vs $15 not $13.65 vs. $15 so its an $8 difference. Asking for paypal fees is against the rules, you know that, whether they are pesky or not. Prez even clowned some other seller in their thread for asking for buyers to cover fees but he was doing the same thing just in pm.

Did he ask for Paypal fees in addition to amounts agreed to for the book and shipping OR when you asked why his shipping fee exceeded his costs he mentioned PP fees as one of his costs he has to account for ?? 

It's a pretty basic but critical distinction, I can't explain it better than crassus did in his second paragraph above.

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1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Did he ask for Paypal fees in addition to amounts agreed to for the book and shipping OR when you asked why his shipping fee exceeded his costs he mentioned PP fees as one of his costs he has to account for ?? 

It's a pretty basic but critical distinction, I can't explain it better than crassus did in his second paragraph above.

What is it about the board rule that a seller can't add paypal fees to the sale that you don't understand?  Crassus mentioned embedding it in the item price which is a better way for recouping costs than adding it when the seller calculates shipping. It's the fact that it's in addition to the price of the item that is the problem.

Edited by kairos70
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19 hours ago, kairos70 said:

When he  quoted $15 for the 8 comics I bought I stated that a medium flat rate box was like $13.65 so why $15? Prez said that the $15 covered the trip for him to travel across the border from Canada to ship the box in the U.S. and also for the 4% Paypal fee that is charged to Canadian sellers.

This is your statement.

Is this the 4% Paypal fee you are referring to?  I don't care about the actual figures but I'm using your $15.00 figure for reference.

Was it?

1.  item price + shipping (with this shipping upcharge covering paypal costs)

2. item price + shipping + paypal fees

I don't know what you think I'm misunderstanding here, I understand the rule but I am reading what you wrote and your sentence describes #1.

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7 minutes ago, bababooey said:

2. item price + shipping + paypal fees

2 is how the seller broke it down in the pm.  The seller fully acknowledged he was charging 4% for paypal fees because he is from Canada.

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1 minute ago, kairos70 said:

I am not nominating Prez because he completed his transaction with me. Jaydee has the best case against Prez because he didn't complete the sale. 

If I understand your point, you are simply mentioning that you had a non-ideal transaction with Prez before (though not egregiously), in relation to how Prez handles shipping costs when mailing to USA.  Which while it is not direct evidence of impropriety, does lend some credibility to the point raised by the OP, who also had international 'shipping price' issues with the Prez.  It makes it harder to say these non-ideal things are simply isolated incidents.

If were Canadian (or American) and lived near the border, I would definitely advertise that I could ship from either side of the border.  But then if I was a customer, I would assume that means I'd essentially get 'local' shipping costs if I made a purchase, and not get hit with extra 'service charges', unless they said up front what their shipping charges were.  But I guess that depends on what I'm getting for my $9 or $15 of shipping.  BTW it sounds like he pocketed more extra money by charging you $9 for a flat rate envelope than he would have charging you $15 for a flat rate box. 

 

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9 hours ago, Jaydee said:

Ok Let me add this Up For all of this as it has been 48 Hours since I notified him and I would like this put to Bed.  

1.  In My Circumstance He Clearly is Disreputable, he refuses to Communicate AFTER he agreed to the Sale (or My Purchase of his said items) or on Multiple PMs.  Therefore not agreeing to the rules of the Boards

2.  In Bluehorshoe's (who loves Endicot Steele) case he just backed out of the contract and then tried to charge him Hollywood Lawyer like fees for his Time.. I am Sorry your majesty You don't get to aaume that anyone here gives a damn about your time.  I do not charge or Discount my food bill from a restaurant for driving to its location.  

3.  Now a Third Boardie Mr. Kairos has comes  forward with Unseen unmentioned and NON Disclosed addition fees.   

 

OK Small Rant here.  

Enough Of this debate on Didn't he return the money ? You weren't Charged so you didn't lose?  and "So what it wasn't a large fee" .  I Personally will obviously never  trust him again.  But Why should others be subject to his bad Character as well.  I expect quite a few Joiners soon as CGC becomes even more popular than ever with the new Youtube  Channels I see popping up.  Unboxing Videos are getting  Views like never before.  Comicbook men on AMC is now on Streaming Services and The Massive Response to BP and IW will only Increase the hobby enthusiasts.  As Veterans of this Group we should keep the Integrity of this group as our top priority, ( and then try to snipe hose awesome raws at a discount)    

^^

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On 4/30/2018 at 4:12 PM, 1Cool said:

I believe in the past all a board member needed to do was refund the purchase price to make the buyer "whole".  Unless you can prove he is trying to sell the book elsewhere it has to be assumed the book was shipped and lost.

Issue is no longer ripe. Or its moot, your choice.

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1 minute ago, revat said:

If I understand your point, you are simply mentioning that you had a non-ideal transaction with Prez before (though not egregiously), in relation to how Prez handles shipping costs when mailing to USA.  Which while it is not direct evidence of impropriety, does lend some credibility to the point raised by the OP, who also had international 'shipping price' issues with the Prez.  It makes it harder to say these non-ideal things are simply isolated incidents.

If were Canadian (or American) and lived near the border, I would definitely advertise that I could ship from either side of the border.  But then if I was a customer, I would assume that means I'd essentially get 'local' shipping costs if I made a purchase, and not get hit with extra 'service charges', unless they said up front what their shipping charges were.  But I guess that depends on what I'm getting for my $9 or $15 of shipping.  BTW it sounds like he pocketed more extra money by charging you $9 for a flat rate envelope than he would have charging you $15 for a flat rate box. 

 

True, I could relate to why bluehorseshoe was taken aback with a $15 shipping charge for 1 magazine. It seemed to me Prez was padding his prices with a high shipping charge. Where I differ from bluehorseshoe is that I didn't argue with Prez about the shipping cost and what Prez said was paypal fees and the cost of driving across the border . The next pm Prez received from me only contained my email address so that he could send me an invoice. When I received the paypal invoice email that's when he changed the $15 box to a flat rate envelope at the price of $9. Prez said the comics fit safely in the envelope. I received the comics safe and sound and so that was it. On April 20 Jaydee sent a pm asking if I received an invoice from Prez to which I replied yes. He had not received one,

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1 hour ago, kairos70 said:

True, I could relate to why bluehorseshoe was taken aback with a $15 shipping charge for 1 magazine. It seemed to me Prez was padding his prices with a high shipping charge. Where I differ from bluehorseshoe is that I didn't argue with Prez about the shipping cost and what Prez said was paypal fees and the cost of driving across the border . The next pm Prez received from me only contained my email address so that he could send me an invoice. When I received the paypal invoice email that's when he changed the $15 box to a flat rate envelope at the price of $9. Prez said the comics fit safely in the envelope. I received the comics safe and sound and so that was it. On April 20 Jaydee sent a pm asking if I received an invoice from Prez to which I replied yes. He had not received one,

OK, I'd like to see a screenshot of the invoice or specific PM if you dont mind.

It's odd that the OP never mentioned a paypal surcharge yet you seem to keep going back to square one with your explanation.  Yes, I realize you aren't nominating him, I'm back to thinking you aren't comprehending the difference between him explaining it as something he bundled into the item and/or shipping prices you agreed to OR surcharging you an additional amount for the fees.  Thanks.

:popcorn:

Edited by bababooey
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