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Why is CGC so confused about 1st Aliens?
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85 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

 

Who told you? That might be the culprit behind the whole thing! :idea:

 

Every sale ad and price guide that I can recall. I'm not sure where it originated, but that has been the story for as long as the book has been on the radar, as far as I know.

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18 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

Yeah, this one....

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...but my guess is it's the same series, they just called it Aliens 2 to avoid confusion with the first mini. Seems like Earth War was the next one that came out and that was in 1990.

 No, here are the 2 issues from the series I'm referring to, both from 1989 per GCD

BTW To clarify, I meant "Aliens" ... 2-issue mini series, not "Aliens 2" ... mini series.  GCD also says these are "collected editions".   Maybe it's a reprinting of the first 6 issue series in 3-issue chunks?  MH says it is a trade paperback, so that's likely the case.

 

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6 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

I appreciate that you've tried to connect the dots, but it just doesn't seem like a straightforward explanation to me. You're presenting a scenario where there's some inexplicable jumble in the collective comic consciousness that happened between issues 2 and 3 which caused people to think DHP 24 came before issue 1? ??? I guess I'm just not seeing the bridge in logic that covers that gap. Admittedly, neither one of us were collecting these issues at the time they were released. I got in on the original series at the tail-end of publication (5 and 6, I think) and I remember Aliens 1 and DHP 24 taunting me with their already-lofty price tags, so 24 was already a big book before the series had wrapped. Each issue also had a level of scarcity adding to the luster and I guess at some point logic took a vacation and when it got back DHP 24 came first (shrug)

I agree that DHP being an anthology almost definitely plays into the confusion -- and maybe it's as simple as that. I had assumed it was a try-out issue for the property that was ultimately a springboard for the mini. I'm guessing that's what most people figured as well. I just don't understand how dealers and collectors, heck, even the publisher, that were around from the beginning weren't pointing out that the stand-alone in 24 came out well after the first issue of the mini. As far as the much later AvP first appearance in DHP 36 muddying the waters....eh, it's unlikely to have mattered as the misconception was already alive and actively influencing the hobby well before this issue came out.

I think I'm just a little frustrated that I've been living under the incorrect notion that this was the first Aliens appearance for so long and I'm just hoping for a more plausible explanation. I'm at least glad to see there were plenty of others that were under the same false impression. I hold the book in the same regard as you, Rocky. I still have each of my original copies that have survived two major collection purges and I don't think I'll ever not have a fondness for DHP 24 even though it's been discredited as the first Aliens' appearance.

Who told you? That might be the culprit behind the whole thing! :idea:

 It's interesting that the Overstreet Monthly I have from 1991 doesn't note the 1st appearance of Aliens or Predator in either series. I feel like that way of thinking, to a degree, wasn't really engrained in the hobby back then since "we all knew" their first appearances were in the movies, but this way of thinking really got challenged hard when BA 12 started to take off. Now we've seen that fervor over the original Star Wars issues with the "first appearance" of Boba, Han, etc. Yes, I get that it's ironic pointing this out in a "first appearance of Aliens" thread, but it still seems a bit weak to me that a movie property's first appearance in a comic could be worth so much.

Edit: Ah, I realize you may have been asking when was the notation transferred from DHP to Aliens 1, not "when did they acknowledge the first Aliens appearance", so that part of my post is probably irrelevant.

The reason I make the claim that I do is simply because there was no internet, and the series was so late (issue #1 has a MAY, 1988 cover date...#3 has a JANUARY, 1989 cover date), that the "collective consciousness" had simply forgotten about the release order of those three issues. 

Not everyone, obviously, but those who compiled such information...such as Overstreet's Jon Warren...could certainly have made that mistake. 

The fact of the matter is, DHP #24 wasn't supposed to come out in between issues #2 and #3, and by the time the series was "hot"...round about summer of 1989, and ESPECIALLY by 1990...everyone just forgot what order they came out.

DHP #24 doesn't help. It "reads" like a preview. 

I don't have an unslabbed copy handy at the moment, so tell me what it says at the end of the story...the editorial blurb...I seem to recall something that's poking my memory...

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20 minutes ago, Warlord said:

 No, here are the 2 issues from the series I'm referring to, both from 1989 per GCD

BTW To clarify, I meant "Aliens" ... 2-issue mini series, not "Aliens 2" ... mini series.  GCD also says these are "collected editions".   Maybe it's a reprinting of the first 6 issue series in 3-issue chunks?  MH says it is a trade paperback, so that's likely the case.

 

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The first one is a TPB collection of the first Aliens mini...the B&W 6 issue 1988-1989 series...the second should be a TPB collection of the 4 issue 1989 series...the color issues. 

By the way... Book Two for sure, and probably Book One as well, were published in 1990. Note Denis Beauvais' siganture with a "90" date on the cover of Book Two.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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By the way....

I have no current way of demonstrating this, BUT...for Dark Horse, dates were often just "suggestions", much like Image later on.

Unlike Marvel, DC, Archie, et al, that kept strict and rigorous shipping deadlines, Dark Horse shipped when the book was printed, and that was that.

I realize...fully...that having a May, 1988 "publication" date means the book was probably shipped around that time, and DHP kept to a fairly decent schedule, so November wouldn't possibly cover the gap...but it may have been a lot, LOT closer in terms of release than their "publication" dates suggest.

Only a shipping manifest from the era will tell the truth. It could be that Aliens #1 was not even released until July of 1988...OR LATER...while DHP, with a November publication date, could have actually been published, like normal, in August. 

The big clue....the biggest...is the "Jan, 1989" publication date...a full eight MONTHS after #1....for issue #3. Aliens was REALLLLLLLLY late, which is why they ditched Nelson for the art for the second series. Its lateness was mentioned in the trade publications of the day.

Probable...? Not at all. Possible...?

The shipping manifests will tell all...........

 

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6 hours ago, valiantman said:

If you collect comics and love Star Wars, there probably should be a distinction in your collection for "first comic appearance of" major Star Wars characters... even if they were "after the movies" (only weeks after, in some cases). It has been 40+ years and several of those characters have had comic-only stories outside of the movies, their own series, etc.  We still have a bit of a "problem" with magazine-sized first appearances that pre-date the "comic-sized" appearances, since Star Wars #42 has Boba Fett months later than Marvel Super Special #16... which was probably a month after a paperback-novel-sized Empire Strikes Back illustrated book.  First appearance of Star-Lord seems to have corrected a portion of the problem, but generally a magazine-sized bias remains.

I think part of the Boba Fett disconnect is that Star Wars # 42 is his first cover appearance as well.

But yeah -- I'm a Star Wars fan and it never occurred to me that say...# 2 is the first appearance of Han Solo, or that the first Yoda (and Boba Fett) is the ESB paperback (which was one of the few Star Wars comic-related items I actually owned back in the day).

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4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The reason I make the claim that I do is simply because there was no internet, and the series was so late (issue #1 has a MAY, 1988 cover date...#3 has a JANUARY, 1989 cover date), that the "collective consciousness" had simply forgotten about the release order of those three issues. 

Not everyone, obviously, but those who compiled such information...such as Overstreet's Jon Warren...could certainly have made that mistake. 

The fact of the matter is, DHP #24 wasn't supposed to come out in between issues #2 and #3, and by the time the series was "hot"...round about summer of 1989, and ESPECIALLY by 1990...everyone just forgot what order they came out.

DHP #24 doesn't help. It "reads" like a preview. 

I don't have an unslabbed copy handy at the moment, so tell me what it says at the end of the story...the editorial blurb...I seem to recall something that's poking my memory...

It says "Released two months before Aliens #1" :whatthe:

Not really, just says, "Find out more about the Aliens in Aliens from Dark Horse Comics". 

By the way....

I have no current way of demonstrating this, BUT...for Dark Horse, dates were often just "suggestions", much like Image later on.

Unlike Marvel, DC, Archie, et al, that kept strict and rigorous shipping deadlines, Dark Horse shipped when the book was printed, and that was that.

I realize...fully...that having a May, 1988 "publication" date means the book was probably shipped around that time, and DHP kept to a fairly decent schedule, so November wouldn't possibly cover the gap...but it may have been a lot, LOT closer in terms of release than their "publication" dates suggest.

Only a shipping manifest from the era will tell the truth. It could be that Aliens #1 was not even released until July of 1988...OR LATER...while DHP, with a November publication date, could have actually been published, like normal, in August. 

The big clue....the biggest...is the "Jan, 1989" publication date...a full eight MONTHS after #1....for issue #3. Aliens was REALLLLLLLLY late, which is why they ditched Nelson for the art for the second series. Its lateness was mentioned in the trade publications of the day.

Probable...? Not at all. Possible...?

The shipping manifests will tell all...........

 

That bit about the mini-series' delay makes a lot of sense. DHP being their flagship title, you would expect it to run on a tight, predictable schedule, so the gap between the two issues likely was closer than the publication dates would make us think. It would be interesting to run the question by Nelson or Verheiden to see if they have any recollection of that.

 

Edited by Martin Sinescu
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2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Also, while we're (sort of) on the topic, anyone know why DHP # 36 was released with two covers?

Just seemed sort of random.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Just part of the hype surrounding it, "get cover A or cover B", from what I remember. No special distribution or exclusivity.

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2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Also, while we're (sort of) on the topic, anyone know why DHP # 36 was released with two covers?

Just seemed sort of random.

So the hype to the "big event of the summer" actually started with DHP34. Issue 36 was the last part in that 3 part story that lead to Aliens/Predator #1 the following month. Surprisingly, there was no mention of two covers by either Dark Horse or Chuck the month DHP36 was released. Matter of fact I am not even sure how did they know which issue to send out to those who ordered with no such mention. 

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7 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

From Mile High Feature catalog (march 1989). The first time DHP24 was mentioned. Prior to that (MHF Dec 1988) Aliens 1 was a $14 book with no mention of DHP24

 

Interesting! I just dug out my Comics Values Monthly (June '89 cover date) and it doesn't even have DHP 24 broken out yet. It lists Aliens 1-4 at that point with #1 at $12 (just the second printing on #1, though, which makes me think it is earlier than your Chucklist). I had issues 2,3 and 4 highlighted, which means I didn't have them yet (and I'm actually not sure if I ever got the whole series), but I had #1 since it isn't highlighted.  Not sure If I had 24 by then, but it does seem that it flew under the radar for most of the series' run. 

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3 minutes ago, Martin Sinescu said:

Interesting! I just dug out my Comics Values Monthly (June '89 cover date) and it doesn't even have DHP 24 broken out yet. It lists Aliens 1-4 at that point with #1 at $12 (just the second printing on #1, though, which makes me think it is earlier than your Chucklist). I had issues 2,3 and 4 highlighted, which means I didn't have them yet (and I'm actually not sure if I ever got the whole series), but I had #1 since it isn't highlighted.  Not sure If I had 24 by then, but it does seem that it flew under the radar for most of the series' run. 

Also I just edited my post regarding he description of DHP 24 as "origins" of Aliens. Interesting

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21 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

So the hype to the "big event of the summer" actually started with DHP34. Issue 36 was the last part in that 3 part story that lead to Aliens/Predator #1 the following month. Surprisingly, there was no mention of two covers by either Dark Horse or Chuck the month DHP36 was released. Matter of fact I am not even sure how did they know which issue to send out to those who ordered with no such mention. 

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Yeah - I remember that.

DHP # 34 had an Aliens cover; # 35 had a Predator cover; they met/fought in # 36 -- and then all three were reprinted in AVP # 0, right?

I also recall that _everyone_ bought AVP # 1 -- it was the # 1 highest printed book the month of release, which was crazy at the time for a non-Marvel/DC book.

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If I remember correctly, AVP #1 was the highest printed "independent" book in history, until Youngblood #1.

How they determine "independent" is anyone's guess, but at that point, it was anything that wasn't Marvel or DC.

AVP was ALSO very late.

AVP #0 reprints the stories in DHP #34-36. 

All four (34, 35, 36 x 2) are rather difficult to find in 9.8.

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6 hours ago, Jimbo749 said:

Lots of great information here guys, thanks for sharing the knowledge. All I need now is a copy of Predator #1 and DHP #24 to go along with the rest of my Aliens/Predator collection and I'll be all set.

It really is a great set, those late 80s/early 90s Aliens/Predator/Terminator books. Lots of cool stuff being produced at the time by Dark Horse.

I look at the quintessential collection being:

Rust #8 (Terminator preview)

Terminator #1-17 (Now)

Terminator: Burning Earth #1-5 (Now)

Terminator #1-4 (DH)

Predator #1-4 

Aliens #1-6, #1-4

Aliens Earth War #1-4

AVP #0-4

Dark Horse Presents #24, 34-36, 42, 43

 

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1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It really is a great set, those late 80s/early 90s Aliens/Predator/Terminator books. Lots of cool stuff being produced at the time by Dark Horse.

I look at the quintessential collection being:

Rust #8 (Terminator preview)

Terminator #1-17 (Now)

Terminator: Burning Earth #1-5 (Now)

Terminator #1-4 (DH)

Predator #1-4 

Aliens #1-6, #1-4

Aliens Earth War #1-4

AVP #0-4

Dark Horse Presents #24, 34-36, 42, 43

 

Great list, I like the way you think. Still pulling together the 17 issue Terminator (Now) series. Just picked up the Aliens Earth War set a month ago out of dollar bins. I think this was some earlier Sam Kieth work on the interiors.

 

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In my opinion Aliens was the first book to adapt a movie/TV show into quality comics.

Sure, there were many many many other adaptations prior to that (Marvel Super Special Magazines come to mind as QUALITY adaptations), but in most cases (Star Wars, Star Trek etc) these were commercial runs that had dollar signs in mind first. Instead, Aliens was a quality series delivered by talented individuals that started a new trend. It couldnt have happened without Mark Verheiden and Mark A. Nelson. It wouldnt have happened without Dark Horse. 

If it was Marvel/DC who licensed it first, they wouldve attached a much more campy look to it which would probably make it a book you and I wouldnt discuss in years to come. Sure, Dark Horse quickly realized that this is something they can capitalize on, but instead of turning it to a cheesecake factory they hired great talent to expand on its original success. First it was Aliens, then it was Predator, Terminator, then came Now and Innovation and in a few short years the indie market was flooded with Sci-Fi/Horror movie & TV adaptations. You could even say that IDW, Boom and the likes are a continuation of that trend, only with a much different market and readership.

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