Question on Ohio pedigree book

[rube11]

Wasn't the Avengers 4 from the Ohio copy a VF/NM book? I seem to remember that somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Rube

[greggy]

[Larryw7]

Does anyone know the history of the Ohio pedigree? It seems more obscure than some of the others.

[DKB]

Does anyone know the history of the Ohio pedigree? It seems more obscure than some of the others.

 

Here's what I posted in the "Can pedigrees be faked?" thread.

 

I can speak somewhat to the Ohio question specifically cause I asked CGC prior to buying some what I would need to verify pedigree. I don't really intend on getting the books slabbed, but I figured if it was good for CGC it was good for me.

 

I believe you have to be able to track the books back to one of the two original dealers somehow. I had certs made for the stuff I bought. However, I grabbed some Ohios from Metro and, as Metro is not one of the two original dealers, I didn't think to ask if the Metro label is sufficient. If it is, the problem you describe would be there.

 

Golden age Ohios (and many Silver and early Bronze too) have a very faint crease down the center of the book due to the method they were stored. It rarely breaks color. I believe the were folded slightly in half and kept in newspaper bags.

 

The scribblings on the books vary real widely. Grease pencil, pen, marker, regular pencil. The grease pencil was the method of choice for the Silver age and beyond books. One constant is that the same implement was used for the same batch of books. You'd expect books that came out the same month to have the exact same looking date. A Daredevil 2 sold on eBay recently (to Josh/Comiclink) and the date matched exactly the date written on the ASM 14.

 

I would imagine, of all the pedigrees, the Ohios would be one of the harder ones to fake. You have the mylar, the Ohio bend (which in some cases I think might be expected), the markings, and the provenance. Whereas anyone could take a Boston book from Metro and swap something else into the mylar.

 

 

The collection itself, as I understand it, was originally found by a dealer (who I do not know) who either a) didn't have the desire or b) didn't have the means to properly handle selling off the collection. Another dealer (who I got this info from) was contacted and the collection was sold off piecemeal to that dealer 2nd hand. The OO wasn't interested in anyone knowing who s/he was.

 

That dealer has sold them himself, slowly. The books were somewhat slow to market because they were not introduced into his show stock until similar books from his stock were purchased. A NM Ohio ASM 20 for instance wouldn't be added to his show stock until the rest of the dealer's NM ASM 20s were sold.

 

There is no master list. Its a huge collection spanning 35ish years worth of books so it would be one hell of a list. There's a good chance some of the books are still with either the owner or the first dealer, because a very notable chunk never surfaced.

 

Hope that helps a little =)

[namisgr]

Sounds about right, DKB. The "second" dealer who sells Ohio books is Nelson Dodds. He can often be seen at shows, still with some Ohio books in his short boxes. I don't recall any certificate of authenticity, but the Ohio ped origin is noted on the mylar sleeve.

[rube11]

Ok, then could it be possible that there are multiple copies? A dealer has one advertised as an Ohio copy but from what I can see its not slabbed.

 

Steve

[Larryw7]

Does anyone know the history of the Ohio pedigree? It seems more obscure than some of the others.

 

Here's what I posted in the "Can pedigrees be faked?" thread.

 

I can speak somewhat to the Ohio question specifically cause I asked CGC prior to buying some what I would need to verify pedigree. I don't really intend on getting the books slabbed, but I figured if it was good for CGC it was good for me.

 

I believe you have to be able to track the books back to one of the two original dealers somehow. I had certs made for the stuff I bought. However, I grabbed some Ohios from Metro and, as Metro is not one of the two original dealers, I didn't think to ask if the Metro label is sufficient. If it is, the problem you describe would be there.

 

Golden age Ohios (and many Silver and early Bronze too) have a very faint crease down the center of the book due to the method they were stored. It rarely breaks color. I believe the were folded slightly in half and kept in newspaper bags.

 

The scribblings on the books vary real widely. Grease pencil, pen, marker, regular pencil. The grease pencil was the method of choice for the Silver age and beyond books. One constant is that the same implement was used for the same batch of books. You'd expect books that came out the same month to have the exact same looking date. A Daredevil 2 sold on eBay recently (to Josh/Comiclink) and the date matched exactly the date written on the ASM 14.

 

I would imagine, of all the pedigrees, the Ohios would be one of the harder ones to fake. You have the mylar, the Ohio bend (which in some cases I think might be expected), the markings, and the provenance. Whereas anyone could take a Boston book from Metro and swap something else into the mylar.

 

 

The collection itself, as I understand it, was originally found by a dealer (who I do not know) who either a) didn't have the desire or b) didn't have the means to properly handle selling off the collection. Another dealer (who I got this info from) was contacted and the collection was sold off piecemeal to that dealer 2nd hand. The OO wasn't interested in anyone knowing who s/he was.

 

That dealer has sold them himself, slowly. The books were somewhat slow to market because they were not introduced into his show stock until similar books from his stock were purchased. A NM Ohio ASM 20 for instance wouldn't be added to his show stock until the rest of the dealer's NM ASM 20s were sold.

 

There is no master list. Its a huge collection spanning 35ish years worth of books so it would be one hell of a list. There's a good chance some of the books are still with either the owner or the first dealer, because a very notable chunk never surfaced.

 

Hope that helps a little =)

 

 

Thanks!

[DKB]

If you are talking about Harley's Ohio Avengers #4, its more likely the slabbed one up top is faked than his.

 

Harley and Nelson are good friends, Harley got a bunch of Ohios from Nelson, straight from the source. Harley has had enough of them that I think when I asked CGC who I should expect to be buying purported Ohios from, Harley was the first name that came up. Kinda sucks actually, cause there have been a few Harley has had that I've wanted, but not at Harley's prices.

 

The one up top doesn't look terribly Ohio-ish to me. I don't see a date. There may be one on the back, but in the 100 or so Ohios Silver Age that I've seen there's almost always (98% of the time) a date and its always on the front. I have a few that don't have dates, and none that have dates on the back.

 

Also, the cover is way white. Too white, unless it was a PC or Curator we were lookin at =p

 

See if you can get Harley to score you a scan.

[Red Hook]

Thus the problem with keeping information about the origin and source of pedigrees from the public. Leaves huge amounts of room for speculation.

[rube11]

DKB,

 

Yup, Harley has one advertised. I asked for a scan so we will see. I am skeptical about buying anything not slabbed from Harley however since his prices are based on CGC books BUT usually he sells them "raw".

 

Thanks for the info!!

[drice6900]

DKB,

 

Yup, Harley has one advertised. I asked for a scan so we will see. I am skeptical about buying anything not slabbed from Harley however since his prices are based on CGC books BUT usually he sells them "raw".

 

Thanks for the info!!

 

On the plus side, Harley's grading is usually spot on and he is easy to deal with on returns, etc.

 

Very good dealer, but the prices are hard to swallow for many collectors.

[Silver Surfer]

If you are talking about Harley's Ohio Avengers #4, its more likely the slabbed one up top is faked than his.

 

Harley and Nelson are good friends, Harley got a bunch of Ohios from Nelson, straight from the source. Harley has had enough of them that I think when I asked CGC who I should expect to be buying purported Ohios from, Harley was the first name that came up. Kinda sucks actually, cause there have been a few Harley has had that I've wanted, but not at Harley's prices.

 

The one up top doesn't look terribly Ohio-ish to me. I don't see a date. There may be one on the back, but in the 100 or so Ohios Silver Age that I've seen there's almost always (98% of the time) a date and its always on the front. I have a few that don't have dates, and none that have dates on the back.

 

Also, the cover is way white. Too white, unless it was a PC or Curator we were lookin at =p

 

See if you can get Harley to score you a scan.

 

Is it posible there was two copies in the Ohio collection. Afterall this was such a landmark book back in the day.

[DKB]

Trusting the grade is one thing, trusting the provenance is another. =) If you get a scan, and it has a date, try real hard to find scans of books from around the same time and see if it matches up. Avengers is a 3/64 book. I have a 5/64 Ohio bought on March 5th, but thats the closest I can get.