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MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20)
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3,079 posts in this topic

On 11/30/2021 at 11:29 AM, drotto said:

And again with the Asian community has embraced Shang-Chi.  They have not.   It was not shown in China, and was not a hit in Japan or Korea. They did not show a dramatic demographic shift in who viewed the film.  You do not see 1000's of Asia children wearing Shang-Chi shirts.  With Blank Panther you saw a massive African American turn out for the film where they were far over represented as a pupulation demographic group seeing the movie. As well as BP viewer demographics being very different from typical MCU films. The numbers prove the black community showed up to see the movie. Outside the MCU look at Encanto.  That movie was embraced by the Latino community.  How do we know? 53% of the viewership this past weekend was Latino!! Those number do not exist for Shang-Chi. 

One of my best friends is Asian-American and doesn't really care for Shang-Chi. Compelling characters and stories matter more to him than people who share some superficial characteristics.

His son loves the Rainbow Batman action figure, so my buddy is all about Gay Batman right now. lol

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On 11/30/2021 at 11:45 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

One of my best friends is Asian-American and doesn't really care for Shang-Chi. Compelling characters and stories matter more to him than people who share some superficial characteristics.

His son loves the Rainbow Batman action figure, so my buddy is all about Gay Batman right now. lol

I have a similar situation.  My friends that brought me into the collecting side of comics and going to cons are all Asian-American, a few are specifically Chinese-American.  They are high end collectors.  Their love of comics is for gold and silver age stuff.  They have never mentioned Shang-Chi, and show no interest. I went to NYCC this year, you would not know that Shang-Chi even existed, and that was about 1 month after the film came out.

 

I know this is all anecdotal from my experiences. But when BP came out people at cons were talking about it. BP costumes, shirts, and merchandise were everywhere. Shang-Chi was crickets.  He keeps saying the love will come, when we see more, when he is used more.  The fact is embraced characters have never needed buildup.

Edited by drotto
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On 11/30/2021 at 11:58 AM, drotto said:

I have a similar situation.  My friends that brought me into the collecting side of comics and going to cons are all Asian-American, a few are specifically Chinese-American.  They are high end collectors.  Their love of comics is for gold and silver age stuff.  They have never mentioned Shang-Chi, and show no interest. I went to NYCC this year, you would not know that Shang-Chi even existed, and that was about 1 month after the film came out.

 

I know this is all anecdotal from my experiences. But when BP came out people at cons were talking about it. BP costumes, shirts, and merchandise were everywhere. Shang-Chi was crickets.  He keeps saying the love will come, when we see more, when he is used more.  The fact is embraced characters have never needed buildup.

BP was introduced in Fantastic Four. He's kinda always been 'cool'. There's some uniqueness to his character and world.

Shang-Chi doesn't seem all that cool or unique, to me. (shrug)

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On 11/30/2021 at 12:07 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

BP was introduced in Fantastic Four. He's kinda always been 'cool'. There's some uniqueness to his character and world.

Shang-Chi doesn't seem all that cool or unique, to me. (shrug)

But again was embraced immediately, by the time the movie hit he was already super popular. 

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On 11/30/2021 at 11:58 AM, drotto said:
On 11/30/2021 at 11:45 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

One of my best friends is Asian-American and doesn't really care for Shang-Chi. Compelling characters and stories matter more to him than people who share some superficial characteristics.

His son loves the Rainbow Batman action figure, so my buddy is all about Gay Batman right now. lol

I have a similar situation.  My friends that brought me into the collecting side of comics and going to cons are all Asian-American, a few are specifically Chinese-American.  They are high end collectors.  Their love of comics is for gold and silver age stuff.  They have never mentioned Shang-Chi, and show no interest. I went to NYCC this year, you would not know that Shang-Chi even existed, and that was about 1 month after the film came out.

 

I know this is all anecdotal from my experiences. But when BP came out people at cons were talking about it. BP costumes, shirts, and merchandise were everywhere. Shang-Chi was crickets.  He keeps saying the love will come, when we see more, when he is used more.  The fact is embraced characters have never needed buildup.

Look, I realize that Shang-Chi didn't have the same impact with the Asian-American community as Black Panther did with the African-American community. For one thing, there really is no such thing as an Asian American community. Maybe a Chinese American community, or a Japanese American community or Filipino Americans, but these groups don't really commune together as a whole. I believe African-Americans are more hungry for social justice and representation than the many different groups that make up the Asian demographic in America.

For my part, I've seen love for the Shang-Chi character from some Asian-American associates of mine who are thrilled to have an Asian hero in the MCU. And yes, I have some who could care less. But it doesn't really matter if my Asian-American friend loved Shang-Chi or your Asian-American friend hated it at the moment. My point is that it's not all about the immediate profit when it comes to a franchise property like a MCU movie. I know it's important, but it's also about laying the foundations for the future.

Captain America, Thor, and Doctor Strange didn't necessarily become fan favorites with their first movies. Cap didn't become a favorite until Winter Soldier. If someone did a study of Captain America sales before and after Winter Soldier, I bet they'd find quite a difference. Chris Hemsworth was about to quit Marvel after Thor 2 but Ragnarok resurrected the character for him and for the fans. I'd say Dr Strange truly shined for the first time in Avengers Infinity War. For Marvel Studios, the character itself is actually more important in the long run than one movie. Of course, that does have to pay off in the long run with an interesting use of the character in subsequent appearances the way Marvel has done with Captain America, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, etc. Let's see what Marvel does with Shang-Chi in the future.

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On 11/30/2021 at 6:12 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Look, I realize that Shang-Chi didn't have the same impact with the Asian-American community as Black Panther did with the African-American community. For one thing, there really is no such thing as an Asian American community. Maybe a Chinese American community, or a Japanese American community or Filipino Americans, but these groups don't really commune together as a whole. I believe African-Americans are more hungry for social justice and representation than the many different groups that make up the Asian demographic in America.

For my part, I've seen love for the Shang-Chi character from some Asian-American associates of mine who are thrilled to have an Asian hero in the MCU. And yes, I have some who could care less. But it doesn't really matter if my Asian-American friend loved Shang-Chi or your Asian-American friend hated it at the moment. My point is that it's not all about the immediate profit when it comes to a franchise property like a MCU movie. I know it's important, but it's also about laying the foundations for the future.

Captain America, Thor, and Doctor Strange didn't necessarily become fan favorites with their first movies. Cap didn't become a favorite until Winter Soldier. If someone did a study of Captain America sales before and after Winter Soldier, I bet they'd find quite a difference. Chris Hemsworth was about to quit Marvel after Thor 2 but Ragnarok resurrected the character for him and for the fans. I'd say Dr Strange truly shined for the first time in Avengers Infinity War. For Marvel Studios, the character itself is actually more important in the long run than one movie. Of course, that does have to pay off in the long run with an interesting use of the character in subsequent appearances the way Marvel has done with Captain America, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, etc. Let's see what Marvel does with Shang-Chi in the future.

But Shang-Chi saved movie theaters, and all people of Asian descent rallied around the character. This is what you have been saying for weeks. Now it is some people of Asian decent seem to love him, and Asian groups are more complex because they are not a uniform group (hint, no ethnic group is as unified as media tries to present them). Way to move the bar again. I am not denying that many of these characters took some time to gain momentum. It was you that made statements otherwise. 

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:00 PM, drotto said:

But Shang-Chi saved movie theaters, and all people of Asian descent rallied around the character. This is what you have been saying for weeks. Now it is some people of Asian decent seem to love him, and Asian groups are more complex because they are not a uniform group (hint, no ethnic group is as unified as media tries to present them). Way to move the bar again. I am not denying that many of these characters took some time to gain momentum. It was you that made statements otherwise. 

That was so the other day. These are the new 'say anything' talking points.

:juggle:

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:00 PM, drotto said:

But Shang-Chi saved movie theaters, and all people of Asian descent rallied around the character. This is what you have been saying for weeks. Now it is some people of Asian decent seem to love him, and Asian groups are more complex because they are not a uniform group (hint, no ethnic group is as unified as media tries to present them). Way to move the bar again. I am not denying that many of these characters took some time to gain momentum. It was you that made statements otherwise. 

My above statement about MCU characters being more important as IPO investments for the future really has nothing to do with my previous statement about Shang Chi saving the U.S. movie theater industry.

About that whole Shang Chi movie theater affair, I realize "save" is a strong word and that there are a lot of other factors involved and I do tend to generalize and hyperbolize as I don't have the time to go into detail, but I absolutely stand by that statement. And to bring that up again, I again wasn't just talking about the opening box office which was still huge, but it was about proving points about the viability of the movie theater at a point in time when movie theaters were very much in doubt due to the pandemic and the success of streaming during the pandemic. It was also about creating a domino effect of behavior amongst not only moviegoers but also the studios themselves. As the IMAX CEO tweeted after its opening weekend, Shang Chi's record Labor Day box office showed us that if you make a good movie and only show it in movie theaters, then people will come. The movie's unexpected Labor Day weekend success almost immediately resulted in movie studios moving up some theater exclusive movies release dates or studios publicly committing to a theater exclusive run. The media ran multiple articles singing the praises of Shang Chi and movie theater bosses also tweeted praise of the movie. Goodwill returned to the movie theater experience and all talk of the demise of U.S. movie theaters and streaming being the new succeeding model for movie releases died.

If Shang Chi was an "experiment" as Bob Chapek said, then that experiment succeeded with flying colors and fireworks. Though BO numbers are still down relative to what they were two years ago, the box office has only gotten stronger in successive weekends and really hasn't looked back since.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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On 11/30/2021 at 5:41 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

My above statement about MCU characters being more important as IPO investments for the future really has nothing to do with my previous statement about Shang Chi saving the U.S. movie theater industry.

About that whole Shang Chi movie theater affair, I realize "save" is a strong word and that there are a lot of other factors involved and I do tend to generalize and hyperbolize as I don't have the time to go into detail, but I absolutely stand by that statement. And to bring that up again, I again wasn't just talking about the opening box office which was still huge, but it was about proving points about the viability of the movie theater at a point in time when movie theaters were very much in doubt due to the pandemic and the success of streaming during the pandemic. It was also about creating a domino effect of behavior amongst not only moviegoers but also the studios themselves. As the IMAX CEO tweeted after its opening weekend, Shang Chi's record Labor Day box office showed us that if you make a good movie and only show it in movie theaters, then people will come. The movie's unexpected Labor Day weekend success almost immediately resulted in movie studios moving up some theater exclusive movies release dates or studios publicly committing to a theater exclusive run. The media ran multiple articles singing the praises of Shang Chi and movie theater bosses also tweeted praise of the movie. Goodwill returned to the movie theater experience and all talk of the demise of U.S. movie theaters and streaming being the new succeeding model for movie releases died.

If Shang Chi was an "experiment" as Bob Chapek said, then that experiment succeeded with flying colors and fireworks. Though BO numbers are still down relative to what they were two years ago, the box office has only gotten stronger in successive weekends and really hasn't looked back since.

October down 20% vs 2019, November down 45% vs 2019 #mathishard

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On 12/1/2021 at 11:27 AM, paperheart said:

and when S-M blows by in a handful of days it will be because S-C paved the way :ohnoez:

And Sony will count all their money, and give Disney their 25% share( I found the reported number). Spider-Man is a Sony film, I can not stress that enough.

Edited by drotto
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On 12/1/2021 at 11:39 AM, drotto said:

And Sony will count all their money, and give Disney their 25% share( I found the reported number). Spider-Man is a Sony film, I can not stress that enough.

And just so that nobody gets confused, to be more precise, Spider-Man: No Way Home is a Marvel Studios film with Pascal Pictures and Columbia Pictures as co-producers and distributed by Sony Pictures. Disney has financed 25% of the film and will receive 25% of the film's profits. It's a true hybrid movie.

More importantly, though, Disney gets all profits from the movie's merchandising and the character in general and pretty much everything else including using Spider-Man in a perhaps more meaningful future Avengers film (when I say meaningful, I mean how much it affects the MCU overall more. The Spider-Man movies so far have had little effect on the greater MCU) Back to my secondary point, though, the individual movie's net profits from the box office means much more to Sony than they do to Disney.

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On 12/1/2021 at 10:43 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

And just so that nobody gets confused, to be more precise, Spider-Man: No Way Home is a Marvel Studios film with Pascal Pictures and Columbia Pictures as co-producers and distributed by Sony Pictures. Disney has financed 25% of the film and will receive 25% of the film's profits. It's a true hybrid movie.

More importantly, though, Disney gets all profits from the movie's merchandising and the character in general and pretty much everything else including using Spider-Man in a perhaps more meaningful future Avengers film (when I say meaningful, I mean how much it affects the MCU overall more. The Spider-Man movies so far have had little effect on the greater MCU) Back to my secondary point, though, the individual movie's net profits from the box office means much more to Sony than they do to Disney.

Yep Sony will make total bank on this film.
And this is the last film they have a deal with Marvel for so unless they do up another deal Spidey will be in Sony's new universe and no longer in the MCU.

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