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Nominating GEEzusWalks
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260 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, newshane said:

The picture in question appears to be a whopping 160KB. 

That was a lot of room back in 1989. 

I remember my husband buying our 2nd computer with 2 huge Gigabits and telling me we would never need a bigger hard drive.  

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8 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I'm assuming, and we all know what that word entails, that he deleted the pictures BEFORE he realized he lost the book. If it happened the other way that of course is different.

Good point. The scant amount of information and short form explanation has left that open. 

We know when the pic was deleted from CGC. We don't know when the picture was taken (proof of life for the last time he saw the book or had it in hand) nor when deleted. 

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2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I was leaving all the details and particulars of the deal itself aside and just went right to something that, I think, is the cause of the doubts people are expressing towards the seller. 

They aren't unreasonable doubts to have, given the small amount of information we've been given thus far. That's all. 

Not saying that losing a book is impossible. Not saying that having a book stolen is impossible. It's the combination of the loss of the book, the timing of the discovery and the concurrent timing of the hard drive and thread deletion, along with explanations that are relatively scant and spread out, the lead folks to have reasonable doubts that the entire picture has been painted clearly. 

Prioritizing hard drive space over ripping the house apart to find something worth $500+ is questionable. I've lost things that are worth far less and it's sent me down a rabbit hole of digging through boxes and storage with little mind to food, water or anything else...much less hard drive maintenance. That the pics of the missing book were part of it the purge is just something worthy of the doubt it creates. 

So I know things happen. But there were actions taken, not out of the control of the seller, and subsequent to the sale/no sale/loss that raise a reasonable question as to how completely any of us know what occurred. 

and I agree with all of that...I'm just looking at it from another angle...

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6 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

It's the combination of the loss of the book, the timing of the discovery and the concurrent timing of the hard drive and thread deletion, along with explanations that are relatively scant and spread out, the lead folks to have reasonable doubts that the entire picture has been painted clearly. 

Prioritizing hard drive space over ripping the house apart to find something worth $500+ is questionable. I've lost things that are worth far less and it's sent me down a rabbit hole of digging through boxes and storage with little mind to food, water or anything else...much less hard drive maintenance. That the pics of the missing book were part of it the purge is just something worthy of the doubt it creates. 

 

Exactly. 

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19 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Just to change the subject;) 

Happy Father's Day 

FYI The serial number is known.  A fast acting boardie was able to snag a angled pic of the BC before it was deleted from the thread.  We want those images so we can look out to see if the book surfaces elsewhere.  We know
books can be cracked out.

IMO what the seller is doing now claiming lost/deleted pictures is even more egregious in my mind.  I've sold to him 2x as well with no issue but if you look at the timeline and scant responses\excuses(lost, refund, sorry, deleted pictures) I have serious issues with this fella's integrity.

Bottom line for me in following this from day 1, I don't believe him and still support him being on the list.

 

asm5.PNG.78e2b72906078d3e4c503b3e163ebcca.PNG

 

Edited by MustEatBrains
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Not wanting to stir coal in fire. But there is one thing I find something bothering me ... why would Mr.L started his sale thread with this specific book in question with the pictures in storage in the hard drive ... and not have the book in hand near to him at his computer? 

Wouldn’t it be a more logical thing is to have a book in hand first before you go ahead start a sale thread? That is how I process with my sales at home. Get the books I need on list (or in binder list) first, then bring them next to my computer and process them one by one with photos to list online. 

That thread here, when I read from beginning to here, I find it strange that the book in question is ... lost? That escape my logical why would he open the sale with photos he has in hard drive without checking to be sure he has the book first?

Even through Brock was refunded in full, there is still that fact in question. Neverless, I hope the book is found. 

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All of these things are possibilities,  but you can't put someone on the probation list, unless there is a way for them to get OFF the list. 

Normally, it's a refund. The refund was made.

So now it's pictures? Are people really going to scan everywhere for a raw copy of the book? Would the same profit be possible if the book was deslabbed? Slabbing costs money , it doesn't seem very practical?.

 

 

Gregory, I'm way over organized, which if probably why I still delete pictures, lol...

I start every sales thread with a word document that I write, sometimes more than a month in advance. I put every book I plan to sell in a specific box that I keep on my desk until the sale, then I put sticky notes on each book that I sell during the thread and put each of those books in a pile with that person's name on it. I write the buyer's name on every sale in the thread and I go back and match them to each pile after the sale.

 Then I write a spreadsheet with a list from each sale, so I understand...but there have been times when things have happened and a book will wind up in the wrong place. Usually it's my husband's fault;) he will walk in to tell me jokes while I'm putting things in piles;) 

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9 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

All of these things are possibilities,  but you can't put someone on the probation list, unless there is a way for them to get OFF the list. 

Normally, it's a refund. The refund was made.

So now it's pictures? Are people really going to scan everywhere for a raw copy of the book? Would the same profit be possible if the book was deslabbed? Slabbing costs money , it doesn't seem very practical?.

 

 

Gregory, I'm way over organized, which if probably why I still delete pictures, lol...

I start every sales thread with a word document that I write, sometimes more than a month in advance. I put every book I plan to sell in a specific box that I keep on my desk until the sale, then I put sticky notes on each book that I sell during the thread and put each of those books in a pile with that person's name on it. I write the buyer's name on every sale in the thread and I go back and match them to each pile after the sale.

 Then I write a spreadsheet with a list from each sale, so I understand...but there have been times when things have happened and a book will wind up in the wrong place. Usually it's my husband's fault;) he will walk in to tell me jokes while I'm putting things in piles;) 

Well, now sans the pictures, true, he's conveniently found a way to continue the debate.  He waits until he is added to the list, before commenting on deleting pictures?  He's been on the boards following all this.  There's simple questions that could still be answered, when were pics taken, when was the last time he physically saw the book, and where?  Was it lost in his house?  How does that happen?  I just don't like the the precedent that if someone has seller's remorse for underpricing a book they can just give a refund, make up all sorts of excuses and go on thier merry way. 

I know some people here would in fact, if pics existing be on the lookout for the book in question.

Edited by MustEatBrains
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Amazing how some people want to bend over backwards do defend this guy. And really, who cares at all how many positive transactions you had with him. I'm sure that makes the person who was screwed feel much better. 

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1 hour ago, skypinkblu said:

All of these things are possibilities,  but you can't put someone on the probation list, unless there is a way for them to get OFF the list. 

Normally, it's a refund. The refund was made.

So now it's pictures? Are people really going to scan everywhere for a raw copy of the book? Would the same profit be possible if the book was deslabbed? Slabbing costs money , it doesn't seem very practical?.

It is certainly good to discuss what this means as a precedent, if indeed this is setting a precedent, than it should be debated by the community whether we are doing more harm than good in this instance.

It should also be considered whether the precedent, if it is one, is not maybe in fact a good one, so if you have posted pics and solicited a sale for a book you have lost, and will therefore have to issue a refund and disappoint a buyer, that you don't attempt to systematically delete all evidence of the book. For if having realized you have lost a book, you then decide instead to systematically erase all evidence of the book, you run the risk that a buyer may get you put on the PL. 

Erasing posts and pictures generally makes a lot of people uncomfortable in the context of the sales forums. When done in the context of happy customers and honest sellers its a relatively minor thing, but in the context of a failed transaction in suspicious circumstances, it undermines confidence that the seller's actions are in good faith. 

Again, I'm not claiming a strong conviction about this as a precedent, it may indeed be problematic, but it is not clear that necessarily for all circumstances that the issuing of a refund is the end of the line, if there is a reasonable suspicion of wrong doing, and as importantly if the remedy sought is reasonable. 

I get the argument Sha, that "but for the Grace of.." etc any of us could be losing a book, yes absolutely, and we could have a brain cramp and erase all evidence of the book, its theoretically possible, and yes, if the seller really did lose the book, and really did absent mindedly and innocently delete all pictures of the book, than he is on the PL until Brock wants to let him off, or he hears an explanation that is credible, or he is otherwise satisfied. But it is the seller's mishandling of this whole thing that has brought it to this point, and it does work both ways, since on any given day any of us could be in Brock's position too. 

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1 hour ago, wombat said:

Amazing how some people want to bend over backwards do defend this guy. And really, who cares at all how many positive transactions you had with him. I'm sure that makes the person who was screwed feel much better. 

You shouldn't be so hard on them Eric, its a two way street, admittedly it doesn't look like the seller cares as much as other Boardies, which seems odd, but character references are fair enough, and while it doesn't prove anything about the matter at hand, there needs to be other perspectives for the sake of balance, and yes, that said, it would look better if the seller himself put as much effort into representing his own case...or in dealing with it properly in the first instance.... 2c

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23 minutes ago, crassus said:

It is certainly good to discuss what this means as a precedent, if indeed this is setting a precedent, than it should be debated by the community whether we are doing more harm than good in this instance.

It should also be considered whether the precedent, if it is one, is not maybe in fact a good one, so if you have posted pics and solicited a sale for a book you have lost, and will therefore have to issue a refund and disappoint a buyer, that you don't attempt to systematically delete all evidence of the book. For if having realized you have lost a book, you then decide instead to systematically erase all evidence of the book, you run the risk that a buyer may get you put on the PL. 

Erasing posts and pictures generally makes a lot of people uncomfortable in the context of the sales forums. When done in the context of happy customers and honest sellers its a relatively minor thing, but in the context of a failed transaction in suspicious circumstances, it undermines confidence that the seller's actions are in good faith. 

Again, I'm not claiming a strong conviction about this as a precedent, it may indeed be problematic, but it is not clear that necessarily for all circumstances that the issuing of a refund is the end of the line, if there is a reasonable suspicion of wrong doing, and as importantly if the remedy sought is reasonable. 

I get the argument Sha, that "but for the Grace of.." etc any of us could be losing a book, yes absolutely, and we could have a brain cramp and erase all evidence of the book, its theoretically possible, and yes, if the seller really did lose the book, and really did absent mindedly and innocently delete all pictures of the book, than he is on the PL until Brock wants to let him off, or he hears an explanation that is credible, or he is otherwise satisfied. But it is the seller's mishandling of this whole thing that has brought it to this point, and it does work both ways, since on any given day any of us could be in Brock's position too. 

This 100%.

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17 minutes ago, crassus said:

You shouldn't be so hard on them Eric, its a two way street, admittedly it doesn't look like the seller cares as much as other Boardies, which seems odd, but character references are fair enough, and while it doesn't prove anything about the matter at hand, there needs to be other perspectives for the sake of balance, and yes, that said, it would look better if the seller himself put as much effort into representing his own case...or in dealing with it properly in the first instance.... 2c

You are probably right. I think the absolute bare minimum effort on the part of the seller is just really annoying me. 

 

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44 minutes ago, crassus said:

It is certainly good to discuss what this means as a precedent,

What it means is that now all anyone has to do to void a deal is say, "I'm sorry. Book is lost." 

Not good. 

How was the book lost anyway? Did it leave his house at any point? If not, it's still there SOMEWHERE, right? 

If he really wants his name removed from the PL, I bet he could find it. 

ONE five hundred dollar book was lost...but the rest remain? 

Who in the world loses five hundred dollars???? And the 160KB pic was conveniently deleted to save hard drive space? lol 

I'm just not buying it at all. :sorry:

Edited by newshane
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3 minutes ago, wombat said:

You are probably right. I think the absolute bare minimum effort on the part of the seller is just really annoying me. 

 

I'm sure there are more than a few in the HOS and/or PL that previously had positive feedback and good character witnesses before landing themselves there.  IMO you're only as good/trustworthy as how you handled your last deal.

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7 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

He waits until he is added to the list, before commenting on deleting pictures?  He's been on the boards following all this.

Actually, that's probably my fault. I wrote to him last night ( I was out of town all week, so was not on the computer much so I really just skimmed a few things while I was gone) and I asked him if he could find the pictures. He answered me almost immediately (and it's not like we correspond, I have not pmed with him in more than a year, maybe 2). What he posted last night is what he told me in his response to my pm and I suggested he post that in the thread so others could see his explanation.

I also suggested that he continue to look for the book and make Brock the offer to sell it to him should it show up. 

I personally really dislike it when sellers delete pictures and prices, so I am not at all saying I agree with anyone doing that.  Unlike many others, the fact that he refunded immediately seems like a positive point to me, deleting the pictures, no so much.

  However, I just don't see how we can proceed in this instance, putting someone on the probation list without them having the ability to get off seems like a dangerous precedent to me.

I do think   that we might want to  think about asking for a rule change that states pictures and prices should not be deleted from threads for at least 90 days (or something like that).

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I also just wrote to Mr. L and asked him the following questions.

Where do you think the book is lost? Is it lost in your house or was it stolen? Was it sold prior to the sale on the boards?

Did anyone contact you saying the price was too low?

Are you continuing to search the house for the book and if so, why not tell Brock that it was just temporarily missing and wait a few days before refunding?"

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21 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Actually, that's probably my fault. I wrote to him last night ( I was out of town all week, so was not on the computer much so I really just skimmed a few things while I was gone) and I asked him if he could find the pictures. He answered me almost immediately (and it's not like we correspond, I have not pmed with him in more than a year, maybe 2). What he posted last night is what he told me in his response to my pm and I suggested he post that in the thread so others could see his explanation.

I also suggested that he continue to look for the book and make Brock the offer to sell it to him should it show up. 

I personally really dislike it when sellers delete pictures and prices, so I am not at all saying I agree with anyone doing that.  Unlike many others, the fact that he refunded immediately seems like a positive point to me, deleting the pictures, no so much.

  However, I just don't see how we can proceed in this instance, putting someone on the probation list without them having the ability to get off seems like a dangerous precedent to me.

I do think   that we might want to  think about asking for a rule change that states pictures and prices should not be deleted from threads for at least 90 days (or something like that).

You’re at fault for nothing.  It should not have taken your PM to him to offer up that info.  Instead when he was asked to produce those photos and answer additional questions that request was ignored, repeatedly.  I can’t believe he has not been following all this closely since it unfolded.

I think those other questions we’ve asked previously and those you posed in your next post are relevant and some answers to those might shed more light on the situation.

Im not in for a lynching but this whole thing stinks to high heaven.  Ultimately I think the masses will take their cues on how the buyer would want to proceed in any possibly way he can be removed.  Love how you always try to see the best in everyone though.  I hope he is truthful and doesn’t disappoint as you’re going out on a limb for him.

 

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31 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Actually, that's probably my fault. I wrote to him last night ( I was out of town all week, so was not on the computer much so I really just skimmed a few things while I was gone) and I asked him if he could find the pictures. He answered me almost immediately (and it's not like we correspond, I have not pmed with him in more than a year, maybe 2). What he posted last night is what he told me in his response to my pm and I suggested he post that in the thread so others could see his explanation.

I also suggested that he continue to look for the book and make Brock the offer to sell it to him should it show up. 

I personally really dislike it when sellers delete pictures and prices, so I am not at all saying I agree with anyone doing that.  Unlike many others, the fact that he refunded immediately seems like a positive point to me, deleting the pictures, no so much.

  However, I just don't see how we can proceed in this instance, putting someone on the probation list without them having the ability to get off seems like a dangerous precedent to me.

I do think   that we might want to  think about asking for a rule change that states pictures and prices should not be deleted from threads for at least 90 days (or something like that).

The OP actual mentioned in this thread when he contacted him and asked him to post pictures. He for the pictures to be posted well before. So I don't think it's your fault for the delay, as you were at least the second person to ask for the pics. 

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