Buzzetta Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, herc2000 said: Latest is, Professor X and Magneto are to be POC! Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me, my friends, who are black say it's a terrible idea and can't understand why they just don't create new characters if they want this. Sounds bad for X-Men already, maybe, maybe FOX should have sold to SONY :-( The very creation of the X-Men were that they were a metaphor for people of color. https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Definitely another actor that transformed himself physically to further enhance their portrayal. But it is wild how far Hugh Jackman took his body to stand out as Logan/Wolverine. Even reaching out to Dwayne Johnson for dieting advice. There is nothing more I would like to see than Hugh Jackman return to the role of Wolverine. He embraced and championed the role like few do. However, I fear that at his age, like he says himself that he can no longer snap into the shape it takes for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Buzzetta said: The very creation of the X-Men were that they were a metaphor for people of color. https://www.history.com/news/stan-lee-x-men-civil-rights-inspiration I've never seen good evidence that Stan actually had Malcolm X and Martin Luther King in mind at the start of the X-Men in 1963, but he definitely thought of it later. Either way it mostly fits, but not perfectly. Magneto was a mutant supremacist for decades and still is in some versions of the character, but Malcolm X discarded black supremacy in the year leading up to him leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964. I have no doubt he modeled it on one race or religion being subjugated by another, but if he really had Malcolm and King in mind then why not make Magneto or Xavier black? Racism in his readers is one legitimate concern he may have had, but he's never addressed it that I've seen, and I've never seen him specifically claim that he did model the characters after Malcolm and King leading up to the first issue in 1963. Mostly I've heard him point out in retrospect that they parallel those two guys well, but that may have been a happy accident. Edited September 16, 2019 by fantastic_four Buzzetta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Does anyone know when Magneto's background of being in the holocaust was first scripted? It's not in X-Men #1. Edited September 16, 2019 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: Does anyone know when Magneto's background of being in the holocaust was first scripted? It's not in X-Men #1. The earliest mention of it I can find is from X-Men #150 in 1981 by Chris Claremont on the page below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: The earliest mention of it I can find is from X-Men #150 in 1981 by Chris Claremont on the page below. Yes, that's the first time. Vulture: How Magneto Became Jewish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Buzzetta said: There is nothing more I would like to see than Hugh Jackman return to the role of Wolverine. He embraced and championed the role like few do. However, I fear that at his age, like he says himself that he can no longer snap into the shape it takes for the role. I agree. But he is still keeping himself going even as of June 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Buzzetta said: There is nothing more I would like to see than Hugh Jackman return to the role of Wolverine. He embraced and championed the role like few do. However, I fear that at his age, like he says himself that he can no longer snap into the shape it takes for the role. Are you referring to him being cut or something about his on-screen agility? He should be able to keep lifting weights indefinitely. Sylvester Stallone is still buff at 73, and Jackman is still only 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I don't have a strong opinion on whether any character should be of a certain race, unless it its A) intrinsic to the backstory or era the story takes place in, or B) somehow intrinsic to the core of the character's abilities or powers (like a cultural talisman/artifact/etc.) With that being said, I don't think there's really a need to be too precious about our stories, which have now been written, re-written, re-imagined, retconned, copied, made into movies, cartoons, anime'd, toys, pillows, food, every damn thing. I DO get the idea of not having change SIMPLY for the sake of being PC or pandering, but I would argue that a good and thoughtful -script and GOOD ACTING/DIRECTING/EDITING are way more important, and aren't really negatively impacted, unless it's to pile on an already bad movie. MCU Captain America woke up in the 2000's instead of the 60's, that has a million times bigger impact on the story/origin than if Johnny Storm or Nick Fury is black. Also I agree that the newest FF movie sucked, and actually I thought that they should have made Michael B Jordan into the Mr. Fantastic, and Miles Teller into Doom. But the adopted brother/sister thing was a non-factor in the overall suckiness. *Note I'm not ambivalent to all race changes. How in the eff was either Crabbe or Goyle (one of Draco's goons, I always get them mixed up) suddenly black in the last Harry Potter movie after being white in the 1st six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: 1 hour ago, Buzzetta said: There is nothing more I would like to see than Hugh Jackman return to the role of Wolverine. He embraced and championed the role like few do. However, I fear that at his age, like he says himself that he can no longer snap into the shape it takes for the role. Are you referring to him being cut or something about his on-screen agility? He should be able to keep lifting weights indefinitely. Sylvester Stallone is still buff at 73, and Jackman is still only 50. I'd very much be in favor of a ridiculous Marvel Team-Up movie set in the far future, Marvel Team-Up: Featuring Old Man Logan and Old Man Deadpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krismusic Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, revat said: I'd very much be in favor of a ridiculous Marvel Team-Up movie set in the far future, Marvel Team-Up: Featuring Old Man Logan and Old Man Deadpool that would be a cool movie I would probably go see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenosmilus Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 hours ago, fantastic_four said: How do you write Magneto into being a Native American? I'm sure there's a way, but he'd be quite different since they weren't wiped out specifically because of who they were but because of the land they occupied. Seems like apples and oranges in translating Magneto's origins into societal bigotry against mutants. How about basic genocide of the race and extinction of numerous tribes, rape of their native land and given crappy land for their reservations. I think writers could figure out an angle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenosmilus Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, revat said: I DO get the idea of not having change SIMPLY for the sake of being PC or pandering, but I would argue that a good and thoughtful --script and GOOD ACTING/DIRECTING/EDITING are way more important, and aren't really negatively impacted, unless it's to pile on an already bad movie. I agree, it annoys me to no end that they change the race or sex just to be PC. I didn't think twice about SLJ as Nick Fury because he is such a bad and Marvel didn't do it to be political or thought they had to (at least I don't think they did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Gatsby77 said: It worked for Nick Fury (and Heimdall). Or...did you prefer David Hasselhoff in the role? Jackson is terrible as Nick Fury. Elba does rock as Heimdall. 🤘 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 hours ago, fantastic_four said: I've never seen good evidence that Stan actually had Malcolm X and Martin Luther King in mind at the start of the X-Men in 1963, but he definitely thought of it later. Either way it mostly fits, but not perfectly. Magneto was a mutant supremacist for decades and still is in some versions of the character, but Malcolm X discarded black supremacy in the year leading up to him leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964. I have no doubt he modeled it on one race or religion being subjugated by another, but if he really had Malcolm and King in mind then why not make Magneto or Xavier black? Racism in his readers is one legitimate concern he may have had, but he's never addressed it that I've seen, and I've never seen him specifically claim that he did model the characters after Malcolm and King leading up to the first issue in 1963. Mostly I've heard him point out in retrospect that they parallel those two guys well, but that may have been a happy accident. I have thought about this and the best answer I can come up with is the following. By 1963 how many superheroes in mainstream comics were people of color? According to my quick google research, the first is Black Panther in 1966. I don't think society was just "there" yet. I then looked up the Star Trek kiss from 1968 and according to Nichelle Nichols, NBC was nervous about airing an interracial kiss on their network worrying about the response from the Deep South. It was a different time and a time period that was already wound too tight. Marvel was a fledgling company trying to make a return to comics as the dawn of the Marvel Silver age was only a couple of years old... Who knows if their execs wanted to risk it at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, fantastic_four said: Are you referring to him being cut or something about his on-screen agility? He should be able to keep lifting weights indefinitely. Sylvester Stallone is still buff at 73, and Jackman is still only 50. 6 hours ago, Bosco685 said: I agree. But he is still keeping himself going even as of June 2019. His dedication to his workout regime is impressive. Maybe it's more of an Andrew Luck thing and he was tired of the recuperation process after finishing one of these films. The older you get the more your aches and pains and recuperation time reminds you how old you are no matter what shape you are in. Edited September 17, 2019 by Buzzetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, fantastic_four said: The earliest mention of it I can find is from X-Men #150 in 1981 by Chris Claremont on the page below. I can see a logical reasoning for making Magneto a black man or someone other than Jewish. If The X-Men were to use the genocide angle for shaping who Magneto is, the Holocaust was simply too long ago for it to have affected a modern day Magneto. Even the Civil Rights Struggles of the mid-20th century were probably too long ago. The most recent genocidal events in real history I can think of are the ethnic cleansing that took place in Serbia under Slobodan Milosevic and the Rwandan Genocide, both which took place in the 1990's. Gatsby77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herc2000 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I think you should just create new characters then, not try to change the history of the original characters. Do you think in China, Africa or any other country they'd change the heroes from their fictional creations to try to please anyone? Imagine the uproar if old Asian or African gods, heroes, were changed and appeared as a white man, would not be allowed, tolerated and would not happen period. I'm sorry, but I like the comics to be true to original creators (the people who made them and decided their appearance) and if it was old white men creating mostly white men characters, then so be it. Although I thought marvel had quite a few characters of color anyhow, but if they want more, then create some off their own backs and not the hard work from others who are no longer with us. Get's on my nerves modern people trying to change others creations in the vision they think it should be now, GO AND CREATE YOUR OWN and do what you like with them! As for Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, he was black in the ultimate universe, and Heimdell, yeah makes sense for an ancient norse god to be black doesn't it ;-) Also talks of Wolverine to be POC as well now, lets have a POC as Batman and Joker, see if that's okay with some of you ;-) Antpark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 We already have "Black Superman" in the Fast & Furious franchise. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, herc2000 said: I think you should just create new characters then, not try to change the history of the original characters. I'm unclear then--you've got an idea for making Magneto a Holocaust survivor without him being elderly in the modern MCU, or are you saying we have to retire Magneto just because Chris Claremont had the idea of making him a Holocaust survivor almost two decades after his original creation and there's no way to ret-con that? Gatsby77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...