MCU's SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME (2021?) 7 7

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:40 PM, fmaz said:

I could write for an hour on this movie and how much I loved it.  

I started to write about how bothered I am that the few criticisms I read about this movie focused on how it was too overfilled with “fan service”… a term that got so overused during Infinity War/Endgame and is tired and incredibly misused here.  It means using content for content’s sake only… a form a pandering… and here, all these multiverse appearances are done so well, so smartly… resolving previously storylines, advancing into new ones, etc… that it’s far from “fan service.”

That being said, what I keep coming back to is the one moment that blew me away, and caught me unexpected.

Still not ready to go into spoilers for folks so

  Hide contents

May’s death and the whole “With Great Power there must be Great Responsibility” moment.  I mean… stunning. Because we saw Uncle Ben’s luggage in the 2nd movie, and because we never saw the Spider bite, we probably all just ASSUMED the origin was what we thought it was… and that Peter had already had this moment with Uncle Ben. Normally I pick up on things in movies well ahead of the time when they are telegraphed by tiny things, but here when in Feast Peter said sending the villains back “wasn’t my responsibility” I didn’t catch it… They really earned that moment and it ended up so much more emotional than in any of the other iterations of Spider-Man, IMHO… because while we all loved Uncle Ben from the comics, here we got to love this version of May from three movies.  It was brilliantly done. 

 

Well said. Other than what I highlighted, though that is just a difference of opinion.

Spoiler

Peter obviously being spiteful leading to Uncle Ben's death is extremely emotional as the guilt that follows this drives Peter's to be better. And this being referenced in No Way Home brought back all of those emotions.

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

[fmaz]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:40 AM, Bosco685 said:

Well said. Other than what I highlighted, though that is just a difference of opinion.

  Reveal hidden contents

Peter obviously being spiteful leading to Uncle Ben's death is extremely emotional as the guilt that follows this drives Peter's drive to be better. And this being referenced in No Way Home brought back all of those emotions.

 

Thanks. And of course opinions can vary on that… heck, MY opinion could change on it. It’s certainly an immediacy bias at the very least. I think we’ll all be able to really tell how we feel about it when it settles into our collective movie watcher’s memories, you know? 

[Straw-Man]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:24 AM, Bosco685 said:

The crazy thing is you are so fixated on convincing yourself and everyone until Marvel Studios came along its characters were nothing and now they changed the world, you disregard all the movie legacy that helped establish general audiences appreciating what they experienced later on. Blade, X-Men, Raimi's Spider-Man broke down barriers which then later on the MCU could stand on such shoulders to carry the torch forward.

That's why Spider-Man: No Way Home is such a wonderful celebration of all that came before in some form. By bringing together all these characters like it did (STILL AVOIDING SPOILERS), it honors the legacy films that made Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios what they are.

well said, sir.

[drotto]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:57 AM, Bosco685 said:

Daily reminder.  Shang-Chi saved the movie theaters. 

 

Back in reality.  This movie belongs 75% to Sony, and only 25% Dinsey.  It is a Sony film that is licensed to be part of the MCU. Sony is the most profitable movie company of 2021.

Edited December 19, 2021 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:31 AM, drotto said:

Daily reminder.  Shang-Chi saved the movie theaters. 

 

Back in reality.  This movie belongs 75% to Sony, and only 25% Dinsey.  It is a Sony film that is licensed to be part of the MCU. Sony is the most profitable movie company of 2021.

 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

Now that is NUTS!

[Bosco685]

 

[drotto]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:15 AM, Bosco685 said:

OOOOO, I forgot.  The MCU does not need any of the older characters.  It no longer needs Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, etc.  They can all be easily replaced with new and mantle passed characters instead of the ones that the MCU was built on.  The MCU will do just as well without them.

Edited December 19, 2021 by drotto

[WeR138]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:27 AM, drotto said:

OOOOO, I forgot.  The MCU does not need any of the older characters.  It no longer needs Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, etc.  They can all be easily replaced with new and mantle passed characters instead of the ones that the MCU was built on.  The MCU will do just as well without them.

"You serious, Clark?"

[fmaz]

Another thought I forgot to mention.  For all our concern that the Disney + shows wouldn’t be able to move storylines forward for fear movie goers would be left behind?

I think in this situation we are truly seeing the influence of Disney. Who is confident enough in its brand and reach that they know people will be seeing or seeking out its content. The moment 

Spoiler

Wanda referenced Westview in the MOM teaser

All I could think of was Disney telling fans  the Uma joke from Pulp Fiction:

"Three tomatoes are walkin' down the street.
Papa Tomato, Mama Tomato and Baby Tomato.
Baby Tomato starts lagging behind, and Papa Tomato gets really angry.
Goes back and squishes him and says: "Ketchup."
😂

Sooo looking forward to Hawkeye finale this week! 

[drotto]

In all honesty, this movie could have two major impacts on how Disney and the MCU move forward from this point.

 

1. Yes, Disney has already been toying with the multiverse.  It is here in full force now.  This will let them canonize all of the Fox Marvel stuff, without necessarily having to use or build on those realities.  This opens the door to recasting major roles, and removing certain storylines and ideas from MCU canon. It also allows then to skip origin movies when certain characters are introduced.

2. I think it accelerates Disney bringing the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into the MCU.  I know there are carefully planned plots that guide the MCU, but they can not ignore the box office numbers for NWH.  It re-enforces that fans want to see more of their old favorites.  Those two franchises are just too important (and cost Disney way too much) to keep on the sidelines for 4 or 5 more years.

[Bosco685]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:04 PM, drotto said:

In all honesty, this movie could have two major impacts on how Disney and the MCU move forward from this point.

 

1. Yes, Disney has already been toying with the multiverse.  It is here in full force now.  This will let them canonize all of the Fox Marvel stuff, without necessarily having to use or build on those realities.  This opens the door to recasting major roles, and removing certain storylines and ideas from MCU canon. It also allows then to skip origin movies when certain characters are introduced.

2. I think it accelerates Disney bringing the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into the MCU.  I know there are carefully planned plots that guide the MCU, but they can not ignore the box office numbers for NWH.  It re-enforces that fans want to see more of their old favorites.  Those two franchises are just too important (and cost Disney way too much) to keep on the sidelines for 4 or 5 more years.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:31 AM, drotto said:

Daily reminder.  Shang-Chi saved the movie theaters. 

Intended sarcasm noted. However...

FACT: The week prior to Shang-Chi and the Ten Ring's release, all the talk in news outlets, social media, and even here in the CGC forum was how the U.S. movie theater industry was in a death spiral, that the pandemic proved that people prefer their movies streamed over going out to the movies, that the pandemic only hastened the inevitable...that we'd all soon be watching movies on our iPads and iPhones instead of buying movie tickets. All the talk was that the supposed early savior, Black Widow, only made things worse for the U.S. movie theater industry due to its huge Disney+ Premium Access numbers that backed up the talk that U.S. movie theaters were dying. A week prior to Shang Chi's release, the U.S. movie industry, as far as many were concerned, was an industry in hospice care and only waiting to die a slow and painful death.

That all changed the Monday after Shang-Chi when this lowly little superhero movie with very low box office expectations shattered those box office expectations and received glowing reviews from critics and audiences. The Monday after Shang-Chi's opening weekend, all talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being dead to the world...died. Shang Chi continued to have strong weekends at U.S. movie theaters throughout the month of September when very few movies with strong box office potential were releasing. As the IMAX CEO himself said on Twitter, amid all the chatter that nobody wants to go to the movies anymore, Shang-Chi proved that if you make a good movie and only give people the option to see it in a movie theater, then people will show up.

Since Shang-Chi's opening weekend and up to No Way Home's debut, there has been zero talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being a dead industry. Shang-Chi created the domino effect of goodwill and moviegoing behavior that has lifted the U.S. movie theater industry. 

As much money as No Way Home is going to make and how many people it's bringing into the theaters, there was no talk last week that the U.S. movie theater industry was a dying industry. The reason why there was no longer all that talk was because of the critical and domestic box office performance of Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.

[drotto]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:21 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Intended sarcasm noted. However...

FACT: The week prior to Shang-Chi and the Ten Ring's release, all the talk in news outlets, social media, and even here in the CGC forum was how the U.S. movie theater industry was in a death spiral, that the pandemic proved that people prefer their movies streamed over going out to the movies, that the pandemic only hastened the inevitable...that we'd all soon be watching movies on our iPads and iPhones instead of buying movie tickets. All the talk was that the supposed early savior, Black Widow, only made things worse for the U.S. movie theater industry due to its huge Disney+ Premium Access numbers that backed up the talk that U.S. movie theaters were dying. A week prior to Shang Chi's release, the U.S. movie industry, as far as many were concerned, was an industry in hospice care and only waiting to die a slow and painful death.

That all changed the Monday after Shang-Chi when this lowly little superhero movie with very low box office expectations shattered those box office expectations and received glowing reviews from critics and audiences. The Monday after Shang-Chi's opening weekend, all talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being dead to the world...died. Shang Chi continued to have strong weekends at U.S. movie theaters throughout the month of September when very few movies with strong box office potential were releasing. As the IMAX CEO himself said on Twitter, amid all the chatter that nobody wants to go to the movies anymore, Shang-Chi proved that if you make a good movie and only give people the option to see it in a movie theater, then people will show up.

Since Shang-Chi's opening weekend and up to No Way Home's debut, there has been zero talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being a dead industry. Shang-Chi created the domino effect of goodwill and moviegoing behavior that has lifted the U.S. movie theater industry. 

As much money as No Way Home is going to make and how many people it's bringing into the theaters, there was no talk last week that the U.S. movie theater industry was a dying industry. The reason why there was no longer all that talk was because of the critical and domestic box office performance of Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.

 

[drotto]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:21 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Intended sarcasm noted. However...

FACT: The week prior to Shang-Chi and the Ten Ring's release, all the talk in news outlets, social media, and even here in the CGC forum was how the U.S. movie theater industry was in a death spiral, that the pandemic proved that people prefer their movies streamed over going out to the movies, that the pandemic only hastened the inevitable...that we'd all soon be watching movies on our iPads and iPhones instead of buying movie tickets. All the talk was that the supposed early savior, Black Widow, only made things worse for the U.S. movie theater industry due to its huge Disney+ Premium Access numbers that backed up the talk that U.S. movie theaters were dying. A week prior to Shang Chi's release, the U.S. movie industry, as far as many were concerned, was an industry in hospice care and only waiting to die a slow and painful death.

That all changed the Monday after Shang-Chi when this lowly little superhero movie with very low box office expectations shattered those box office expectations and received glowing reviews from critics and audiences. The Monday after Shang-Chi's opening weekend, all talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being dead to the world...died. Shang Chi continued to have strong weekends at U.S. movie theaters throughout the month of September when very few movies with strong box office potential were releasing. As the IMAX CEO himself said on Twitter, amid all the chatter that nobody wants to go to the movies anymore, Shang-Chi proved that if you make a good movie and only give people the option to see it in a movie theater, then people will show up.

Since Shang-Chi's opening weekend and up to No Way Home's debut, there has been zero talk of the U.S. movie theater industry being a dead industry. Shang-Chi created the domino effect of goodwill and moviegoing behavior that has lifted the U.S. movie theater industry. 

As much money as No Way Home is going to make and how many people it's bringing into the theaters, there was no talk last week that the U.S. movie theater industry was a dying industry. The reason why there was no longer all that talk was because of the critical and domestic box office performance of Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.

Shang-Chi made $432 total Box Office (yes you must include all territories).  It arguably made money, and yes has a tentative green light for a sequel. 

 

NWH has made $580 plus million in 3 days, and has literally given the pandemic a giant middle finger.  It is setting legitimate box office records, and not some lower the bar because of the pandemic backflips to make it look better stuff.  It proves that give the people a movie they really want to see and they will come in droves, regardless of what is happening in the world. Maybe, it just proves that all of the movies released so far this year just did not excite the general public, despite what you or I may have thought of them.  This movie not only proves theaters can survive, it proves we can still have block busters, and the block buster is what has been keeping theaters alive for the last 10 years at least.

 

Give the people what they want, give the people just a good fun movie, give them an excuse to escape the world for two hours, and they will come. It may not be what you want, but it is clear people are loving what they have been given. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:04 PM, drotto said:

In all honesty, this movie could have two major impacts on how Disney and the MCU move forward from this point.

 

1. Yes, Disney has already been toying with the multiverse.  It is here in full force now.  This will let them canonize all of the Fox Marvel stuff, without necessarily having to use or build on those realities.  This opens the door to recasting major roles, and removing certain storylines and ideas from MCU canon. It also allows then to skip origin movies when certain characters are introduced.

2. I think it accelerates Disney bringing the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into the MCU.  I know there are carefully planned plots that guide the MCU, but they can not ignore the box office numbers for NWH.  It re-enforces that fans want to see more of their old favorites.  Those two franchises are just too important (and cost Disney way too much) to keep on the sidelines for 4 or 5 more years.

The Multiverse was toyed with in Dr Strange, Avengers Endgame, and WandaVision. It was in full effect in Loki. Skipping origin stories for previous successful Marvel characters in TV or film was what Marvel Studios already did with its Spider-Man debut in Homecoming and Hulk. 

I think it was the success of Into the Spiderverse that proved to Sony and Disney that they could pull off a live action version of it.

As far as canonizing the Fox Marvel stuff, Disney has removed the Fox Fantastic Four films from Disney+. Those movies were not good and those character versions were not beloved the way the Sony Spider-Dudes were. It's not the same.

As for the X-Men, there were only a handful of FoX-Men with real staying power to include Logan, either version of Charles X, either version of Magneto, and Evan Peters' Quicksilver. Marvel Studios already toyed with the last guy in WandaVision to great effect with the fans. We might see something with the other guys but the rest are maybe best left forgotten. 

Fantastic Four is already in the pipeline. I don't think No Way Home's success will have any effect on its release date. The Fantastic Four still remains a property that has yet to truly prove it can succeed in a live action format and I don't think Marvel Studios is in any more rush to push it out than it is now.

I think X-Men or Mutants or whatever they'll call it, is still many many years away from its MCU debut.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:48 PM, drotto said:

Shang-Chi made $432 total Box Office (yes you must include all territories).  It arguably made money, and yes has a tentative green light for a sequel. 

However much money any movie made or would have made in China Brazil or Nigeria or how many people in those countries went to their theaters has zero effect on the U.S. movie theater industry.