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MCU's Phase 5 rumors
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Started by Bosco685,

501 posts in this topic

@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 9/16/2022 at 6:49 AM, TupennyConan said:

I used to see Captain America shield tshirts everywhere. 

Those days are gone & won't be coming back for at least a generation, if ever.

I no longer see any MCU tshirts, certainly no Falcon, Captain Marvel, or Kate Bishop attire. 

Obviously you haven’t seen me rocking my Black Panther shirt wrapped in a Marvel official Hawkeye hoodie around town this week. As someone who notices that kind of stuff, I did see a Captain America logo shirt and an Avengers shirt walking around yesterday, though. No DC shirts, sorry to report. 
p.s. Was there there even a Falcon shirt or a Kate Bishop shirt available for general purchase? 

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@therealsilvermane

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On 9/16/2022 at 12:12 PM, drotto said:

I feel like they are trying to kill it.  Will leave it alone for about 5 years, then reboot based around the X-Men and recasting the originals.  This delay of X-Men to 2025 will not be the last.

Serious question: do you actually believe this? I mean, do you actually believe Marvel Studios is going to shelve Quantumania, GOTG Vol 3, The Marvels, Captain America New World Order, FF, Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars in order to just completely focus on an X-Men reboot for 2025?

Meanwhile, in actuality, James Gunn and co. are seriously shelving everything over at DC studios including Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman 3.

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:50 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Serious question: do you actually believe this? I mean, do you actually believe Marvel Studios is going to shelve Quantumania, GOTG Vol 3, The Marvels, Captain America New World Order, FF, Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars in order to just completely focus on an X-Men reboot for 2025?

Meanwhile, in actuality, James Gunn and co. are seriously shelving everything over at DC studios including Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman 3.

So your statement is: look how stupid it would be to do this. 

 

This company did it. 

 

 

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drotto

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On 12/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Serious question: do you actually believe this? I mean, do you actually believe Marvel Studios is going to shelve Quantumania, GOTG Vol 3, The Marvels, Captain America New World Order, FF, Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars in order to just completely focus on an X-Men reboot for 2025?

Meanwhile, in actuality, James Gunn and co. are seriously shelving everything over at DC studios including Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman 3.

And now the rumors have come out that Disney is re-evaluating phases 5 and 6, and are considering quality of quantity. We have seen many things shuffled around in the schedule, and nothing is set in stone until footage is shot.  Even then dates are moved and re-shots are done. So yes, Quantumania, GOTG, and the Marvels will come out, but everything else is up for retooling, story changes, delays, and even cancellations. If this is true that timeline from a few months ago is going to change. So do I think the Disney will stop making MCU projects till 2025, no, maybe they should, but no.  What I am saying, and the news that is now coming out points to, are changes are being made because people inside the company and investors are not happy with phase 4. So many of the projects will come out, but they are going to be changed.  I do think however, that many of the streaming shows could be shelved or cancelled.

 

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-changing-approach-mcu-phase-5-quality-over-quantity/

https://bgr.com/entertainment/mcu-phase-5-and-6-might-see-massive-changes-now-that-bob-iger-is-back-at-disney/

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-phase-5-6-slate-changes

https://www.avclub.com/mcu-phase-4-explanation-breakdown-analysis-1849783036

https://fandomwire.com/is-mcu-phase-4s-weak-performance-responsible-for-bob-chapeks-exit-former-disney-ceo-reportedly-instantly-fired-after-he-proposed-mass-layoffs-to-contain-low-profits/

 

Yes, Gunn is apparently blowing up the DCU.  The investors are not happy, WB is not happy, and the movies have been underperforming.  So maybe it needs to be blown up.  Yes, a few films I really enjoyed came out of the last few years like WW and Shazam (yes, I will defend that film), but they are apparently opting for a hard reboot.  So, it is logical to think that if viewer numbers, the box office, and the profitability of the MCU continues to fall, that changes may also come to the MCU. Disney needs to look at the trends and it looks like they may be making adjustments. Just saying all these things will come out exactly as announced several months ago is naïve. It shows a level of denial, because in your opinion the MCU is perfect and does not need to change at all. We can completely ignore the falling profits at the theaters, and ignore the viewership numbers on D+. That viewpoint will lead to the MCU dying.  If you want it to survive, what has worked and what has not needs to be evaluated.  Based on that, changes should be made.

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theCapraAegagrus

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:56 AM, drotto said:

Yes, a few films I really enjoyed came out of the last few years like WW and Shazam (yes, I will defend that film), but they are apparently opting for a hard reboot.

Shouldn't have to. It's not bad. (shrug)

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drotto

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On 12/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Serious question: do you actually believe this? I mean, do you actually believe Marvel Studios is going to shelve Quantumania, GOTG Vol 3, The Marvels, Captain America New World Order, FF, Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars in order to just completely focus on an X-Men reboot for 2025?

Meanwhile, in actuality, James Gunn and co. are seriously shelving everything over at DC studios including Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman 3.

As further proof announced movies can change or be cancelled, look at Star Wars. The Dave and Dave trilogy, gone. The Johnson trilogy in permanent limbo. Jenkins Rouge Squadron announce with massive fanfare, dead. The proposed Star Wars story films, all gone.  Remember, Disney had announced there was going to be a Star Wars movie every year.

 

Do you actually believe the two films that were leaked in the last few months will happen?

 

Now, this may not be a fair example. It is however proof that even at Disney, much of which is announced never happens.  Yet the MCU will be permanently immune?

 

 

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@therealsilvermane

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On 12/8/2022 at 11:30 AM, drotto said:

As further proof announced movies can change or be cancelled, look at Star Wars. The Dave and Dave trilogy, gone. The Johnson trilogy in permanent limbo. Jenkins Rouge Squadron announce with massive fanfare, dead. The proposed Star Wars story films, all gone.  Remember, Disney had announced there was going to be a Star Wars movie every year.

 

Do you actually believe the two films that were leaked in the last few months will happen?

 

Now, this may not be a fair example. It is however proof that even at Disney, much of which is announced never happens.  Yet the MCU will be permanently immune?

 

 

If you mean Thunderbolts and Blade, yes, I believe those films will happen. As they're still in pre-production, the story approach may change, but that's just how Marvel Studios works anyway. They've confessed to making the story up as they go along (in varying degrees) since the first Iron Man movie. 

I do believe Marvel Studios felt pressure to put out as much content as it could for the sake of Disney+, and that they will start to slow that down going forward. I do believe even just holding back on one Disney+ series, say Moon Knight, would have made it feel less crowded. I do believe we may start seeing a little less cleverness from the MCU and a little more old-fashioned meat and potatoes action movie storytelling, key words, "a little less", because the MCU without at least a little humor just isn't the MCU.

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@therealsilvermane

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@drotto disclaimer: 

When I say "cleverness", I'm thinking of Phase Four projects like Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, experimental storytelling projects like Moon Knight and She-Hulk. 

With Eternals, Marvel basically green lit Chloe Zhao to make a hybrid art-house/MCU film. I loved Eternals, but I for sure can understand why a lot of fans and critics couldn't go along with it. In Moon Knight, the psychological "is it real or is it not" story mode may have been a little too much for general audiences to take. I admit Love & Thunder could have scaled back the comedy a little. Multiverse of Madness and She-Hulk are examples where maybe Marvel went a little too meta, maybe. In MoM, Marvel trolled fans by giving them characters they'd been clamoring to finally see only to kill them off brazenly like ten minutes later. In She-Hulk, maybe the series could have scaled back its trolling of a certain part of the fan base, even though they deserved it. Marvel might do well to not troll parts of its fan base in the future. Let the fans sort out the debate, just try to tell decent action stories. It was nice to know where Marvel Studios stood on that, though.

Again, I think, for the future, we may see less "cleverness" and maybe more straight forward storytelling (even though Phase Five and Six will be about the variance of time), until it's time to get clever, meta, experimental, or whatever, again. 

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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PopKulture

PopKulture

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On 12/13/2022 at 11:52 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

In She-Hulk, maybe the series could have scaled back its trolling of a certain part of the fan base, even though they deserved it. Marvel might do well to not troll parts of its fan base in the future.

I haven't seen the series. Can you recap this bit of trolling, just so I can feel partially up-to-date? :shiftyeyes:

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 12/14/2022 at 11:42 PM, PopKulture said:

I haven't seen the series. Can you recap this bit of trolling, just so I can feel partially up-to-date? :shiftyeyes:

Maybe it wasn't technically "trolling", but the She-Hulk series poked fun at the toxic masculinist fans who vent their anger online over leading female super-heroes. These types of fans were characters in the show and formed their own online She-Hulk hate group, the Intelligencia.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 12/15/2022 at 1:14 AM, kimik said:

The success of Phase 5 is simple - use it to introduce the FF and then at the end lead into the X-Men. It really is not difficult if DIS does not overthink it.........

It’s not that simple. The Fantastic Four, by their very nature, create cinematic challenges that two separate movie franchise attempts could not overcome. How do you make Thing not look silly? How do you make a woman you can’t see visually interesting? Reed can stretch. Who cares? It’s not that simple. Besides, the FF are scheduled for Phase Six and that’s not changing. Obviously the key to success for Phase Five is to have Quantumania, GOTGV3, The Marvels, and Captain America New World Order be awesome movies and for Secret Invasion to be a great Disney+ series. It’s that simple.

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davidpg

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On 12/15/2022 at 10:42 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

 Obviously the key to success for Phase Five is to have Quantumania, GOTGV3, The Marvels, and Captain America New World Order be awesome movies and for Secret Invasion to be a great Disney+ series. It’s that simple.

Well the key to success of phase 4 was all the shows and movies....that's not something that worked out.  I'm a huge MCU fan, and I have very little hope for the upcoming phase.  As well, I disagree with what you've pointed out regarding the FF...made under the style of the first phase of all MCU films, they could make it work very well.  Dunno where they'll be at that point though.

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drotto

drotto

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On 12/15/2022 at 10:42 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

It’s not that simple. The Fantastic Four, by their very nature, create cinematic challenges that two separate movie franchise attempts could not overcome. How do you make Thing not look silly? How do you make a woman you can’t see visually interesting? Reed can stretch. Who cares? It’s not that simple. Besides, the FF are scheduled for Phase Six and that’s not changing. Obviously the key to success for Phase Five is to have Quantumania, GOTGV3, The Marvels, and Captain America New World Order be awesome movies and for Secret Invasion to be a great Disney+ series. It’s that simple.

Sorry, only GOTG3 is the only movie that is close to a sure thing. I think it will do well. But it is done and Gunn is gone. Quantumania is from a series that best showing was around $650 million even with the big tie in, so we can expect maybe $550 from that film. The Marvels is banking on the most divisive character in the MCU, a character from a D+ series with disappointing viewer numbers, and another character that was a B lister in another D+ show. So maybe a $650 million film? The next Captian America is the wildcard to me.  Sam as Captian America is less popular than Evan's version.  The D+ show was viewed as a disappointment by many.  So my gut says another $750 outing on that one.

 

So we have 4 films with likely $200 million plus budgets, and with another $150 to $200 million per film for marketing, and it will be a tough climb to be profitable. But where it your driving central theme still again?  Phase 4 was criticized for not linking together, and that problem still seems to be here. There are no  billion dollars films here, and the MCU fan base is shrinking.

 

As for Secrete Wars on D+, this is not going to save the MCU.  D+ has been a failure for Star Wars, and that franchise is slowly dying.  The D+ series have looked cheap, and the last few have underperformed by viewing metrics.   Plus the idea of world changing events based on streaming series, when streaming services are struggling is shaky.

 

The MCU is slowly failing, unless big changes are made.

Edited by drotto
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drotto

drotto

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https://collider.com/echo-series-delayed-2023-hawkeye-spinoff/

 

Echo now officially delayed till end of 2023 or possible even later.  Sure, everything is just peachy in the MCU.  A delay this long likely means reshoots, and re-writes.  Couple this with rumors that investors are not happy with phase 4, and it is suggestive that something is up in the broader sense.

 

Would not be surprised if this is just the start of things getting moved around.  Since this show was also slated for a few months from now, and changes here will have a ripple effect on at least the other D+ projects.

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MAR1979

MAR1979

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On 12/8/2022 at 7:42 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Obviously you haven’t seen me rocking my Black Panther shirt wrapped in a Marvel official Hawkeye hoodie around town this week. As someone who notices that kind of stuff, I did see a Captain America logo shirt and an Avengers shirt walking around yesterday, though. No DC shirts, sorry to report. 
p.s. Was there there even a Falcon shirt or a Kate Bishop shirt available for general purchase? 

One of my dogs wears a Cap collar (with a Batman Shirt) the other a Panther collar. 

Edited by MAR1979
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