HOLY [embarrasing lack of self control]..ADVENTURE COMICS 72 CGC 9.8 ALREADY @ $37500

[markseifert]

I don't care whether this book has been pressed or is a simple resubmit, but CGC should NOT allow previously graded books to be submitted for new grades on a different day. IMHO, this denigrates their credibility, which will only hurt the market and its business as time goes by. There is no legitimate excuse for a MH book, which is clearly tracked, to receive two different grades. CGC should stand by its initial grade.

 

Respectfully, and setting the issue of pressing aside for the moment, I disagree.

 

I think you have to put the mechanics of the process before any considerations as to what the consequences of the process may be (change in grade may result in change in market value). In my opinion, if you agree that a panel of good, experienced graders could assign different grades to a given book on different days, then I think you have to let that process play out as it may.

 

The purpose of the process should be to assign the most accurate grade possible. There's nothing to say that the second grade is not the more accurate grade. Under a system in which the original grade is the last word on the subject... in a way that subverts the process, because it sort of implies that there are marketplace concerns that are more important than attempting to assign the most accurate grade possible.

 

I don't play in the deep end of the pool, so it's possible I might feel differently if I saw books I was in the market for changing values dramatically with resubmits. Perhaps a compromise would be for them to keep a record of the previous grade on resubmits along with the graders notes.

[esquirecomics]

I am not suggesting that a lack of faith in CGC prompted Parrino to dump his books, but I do think given the books he purchased that the issue of multiples was a factor. And CGC's existence created those multiples.

[Foolkiller]

can't argue with that at all mark.

[joe_collector]

Big money investors earned their big money by being smart. They'll do their research just like wall street investors do.

 

Exactly how do you "be smart" in the current CGC market, and buy slabs to turn a "big money" profit?

 

I don't see a lot of ways to make big money buying CGC books retail, but there are some more dubious methods of making cash in the current CGC climate:

 

1) Set up a online consignment website and sell other people's CGC books for a cut of the action.If the seller loses his shirt, who cares, you still made your 10-15%.

 

2) Buy hard to find CGC books, and then resell those at a steep mark-up to your "clientele", and hope you can hook more lazy suckers to buy in at ever-higher prices. Ponzi Scheme City.

 

3) Get a ready supply of HG raw and continue to submit and sell.

 

But buying CGC on Heritage, EBay or other sources, and then attempt to make "big money" later on? Highly doubtful, and it's far easier to ream the suckers for 'services rendered" than actually buying and selling slabs at retail.

[tth2]

Something definitely happened with that staple. It's right on the spine in the 9.6, but there's some cover showing between the staple and the spine in the 9.8 scan.

 

Also look at the fartest edge of the tear on the ULC on the 9.6 and compare it with the 9.8....i'd say a 2 mm or so difference.

 

Actually I would like to know what sane person would re-submit this book as it was & expect to get back the same grade. Huge risk...something I would'nt have done.

Heritage often recommends to its consignors to do a shotgun resub of the consigned books to CGC, in hopes that the resub roulette will produce enough upgrades to more than compensate for the resub fees. From what I've heard, there is little scrutiny as to which ones are likely upgrade candidates, it's just a "submit them all, let CGC sort it out" philosophy, although they will identify blatantly overgraded books and NOT resub those.

 

So this thread doesn't degenerate into a pressing conspiracy thread, I want to note that according to my various sources, there was NO pressing of these books done between CGC's receipt of the books and the resub. Also, to maintain fairness towards CGC, only a very very small number of books came back with a higher grade, so it's not like this resub process is a surefire money-maker for the consignor after subtracting for resub and shipping costs.

 

I have to question resubbing a book like the 9.6 Adventure, though. As several people in this thread have pointed out, for a GA book like this, that is likely the finest copy in existence by far, regardless of whether it's a 9.6 or 9.8, the upside of getting a 9.8 is negligible, in my opinion. I don't think high-end GA collectors will pay up for the .2 difference. It's a completely different market from the high-end SA and BA market, where the .2 matters a lot in the race for the top of the census.

[nearmint]

Exactly how do you "be smart" in the current CGC market, and buy slabs to turn a "big money" profit?

 

I wasn't suggesting that you can buy slabs and turn a big money profit. My point was that a high-dollar investor is going to do his homework and learn about CGC's inconsistency, learn about pressing, learn about all factors that affect the market, before they sink a lot of dough into comics.

 

Parrino thought he could control the market. I think when he came to the conclusion that it wasn't working out that way, he decided to bail.

[nearmint]

I have to question resubbing a book like the 9.6 Adventure, though. As several people in this thread have pointed out, for a GA book like this, that is likely the finest copy in existence by far, regardless of whether it's a 9.6 or 9.8, the upside of getting a 9.8 is negligible, in my opinion. I don't think high-end GA collectors will pay up for the .2 difference. It's a completely different market from the high-end SA and BA market, where the .2 matters a lot in the race for the top of the census.

 

Absolutely correct.

[joe_collector]

Parrino thought he could control the market. I think when he came to the conclusion that it wasn't working out that way, he decided to bail.

 

I think JP bailed because he came to the realization that there is very little money to be made buying and selling CGC slabs. In fact, it's far easier to lose money, especially on Heritage.

[adamstrange]

Heritage is pushing people big time from other hobbies to spend money on comics.

 

They are? Can you offer any examples of "pushing" besides the most basic marketing practice of providing catalogs to any and all?

 

I've been around them a bit and I just don't get the sense of this happening.

[nearmint]

Parrino thought he could control the market. I think when he came to the conclusion that it wasn't working out that way, he decided to bail.

 

I think JP bailed because he came to the realization that there is very little money to be made buying and selling CGC slabs. In fact, it's far easier to lose money, especially on Heritage.

 

I don't think our two ideas are mutually exclusive. Your post makes sense to me.

[esquirecomics]

Heritage is pushing people big time from other hobbies to spend money on comics.

 

They are? Can you offer any examples of "pushing" besides the most basic marketing practice of providing catalogs to any and all?

 

I've been around them a bit and I just don't get the sense of this happening.

 

I am not insuating "pushing" is a negative. If you prefer substitute "advocating", "recommending" or "promoting". Heritage has a vast network of auctions and customers, and it should not be a shock that those involved with Heritage would suggest to other hobbyists that they might want to look at investing in comics. I do it all the time. Except I don't have that many customers/clients who have millions of dollars like Heritage does!

[esquirecomics]

Parrino thought he could control the market. I think when he came to the conclusion that it wasn't working out that way, he decided to bail.

 

I think JP bailed because he came to the realization that there is very little money to be made buying and selling CGC slabs. In fact, it's far easier to lose money, especially on Heritage.

 

I don't think our two ideas are mutually exclusive. Your post makes sense to me.

 

I would disagree. There is definitely money to be made out there by buying and selling CGC slabs. I do it. PGCMint does it. ComicLink does it. Now, I don't engage in the practice for my livelihood, but others do and they seem to be doing ok. I'm doing fine.

 

Parrino just needed to wait a little longer. He paid 2005 prices for 2003 books. The one thing I can say about the fantastic books that he has (had), is that ultimately the value will catch up to most any price you pay (so long as it is not an absurd multiple). If you can wait 3-5 years on a HG purchase, you'll make money.

[joe_collector]

I would disagree. There is definitely money to be made out there by buying and selling CGC slabs. I do it. PGCMint does it. ComicLink does it.

 

Are we talking about the same thing here? Go and read my earlier post, where I state that online consignment sites and "sucker clientele" can be a lucrative method of taking part in the CGC market, but we're talking about Joe Blow buying CGC slabs at retail, and then selling them to make "big money" profits.

 

I do not think we are on the same page here.

[shrunkenhead]

I would disagree. There is definitely money to be made out there by buying and selling CGC slabs. I do it. PGCMint does it. ComicLink does it.

 

Are we talking about the same thing here? Go and read my earlier post, where I state that online consignment sites and "sucker clientele" can be a lucrative method of taking part in the CGC market, but we're talking about Joe Blow buying CGC slabs at retail, and then selling them to make "big money" profits.

 

I do not think we are on the same page here.

 

 

Are you saying that anyone who buys a book from Mark is a sucker? That's pretty offensive.

[joe_collector]

Are you saying that anyone who buys a book from Mark is a sucker? That's pretty offensive.

 

Here's my original post:

 

1) Set up a online consignment website and sell other people's CGC books for a cut of the action.If the seller loses his shirt, who cares, you still made your 10-15%.

 

2) Buy hard to find CGC books, and then resell those at a steep mark-up to your "clientele", and hope you can hook more lazy suckers to buy in at ever-higher prices. Ponzi Scheme City.

 

Is he playing #1 or #2?

[shrunkenhead]

2) Buy hard to find CGC books, and then resell those at a steep mark-up to your "clientele", and hope you can hook more lazy suckers to buy in at ever-higher prices. Ponzi Scheme City.

 

 

I fail to see how "#2" is a ponzi. You're only talking about the nature of reselling a good, which is basically how anyone in retail in this country makes their living. You buy something cheap, you sell it for more. You might as well poo-poo the capitalist enterprise. In fact, I'd find that argument more believable than your attack on #2, which seems just to be a misdirected tirade.

 

And what kind of business does Mark run? Well, maybe you should look into that yourself before casting aspersions...

[esquirecomics]

I think JP bailed because he came to the realization that there is very little money to be made buying and selling CGC slabs. In fact, it's far easier to lose money, especially on Heritage.

 

JC, I was referring to this statement you wrote above, not your other posts.

[esquirecomics]

Are you saying that anyone who buys a book from Mark is a sucker? That's pretty offensive.

 

Here's my original post:

 

1) Set up a online consignment website and sell other people's CGC books for a cut of the action.If the seller loses his shirt, who cares, you still made your 10-15%.

 

2) Buy hard to find CGC books, and then resell those at a steep mark-up to your "clientele", and hope you can hook more lazy suckers to buy in at ever-higher prices. Ponzi Scheme City.

 

Is he playing #1 or #2?

 

I don't see how I fit into either category.

[joe_collector]

I fail to see how "#2" is a ponzi. You're only talking about the nature of reselling a good, which is basically how anyone in retail in this country makes their living. You buy something cheap, you sell it for more.

 

Did I strike a nerve? If so, I apologize, but the scenario I illustrated is NOT even close to how standard retail works.

[joe_collector]

I don't see how I fit into either category.

 

Exactly.