Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBO Max (2021) 1 1

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

Also laughing at those insufficiently_thoughtful_persons destroying media they already purchased. Sure, do what you want but it would have been more effective to NOT buy the movie's home release in the first place 

It is quite crazy, as no matter what WB received the revenue already. So all they are doing is destroying their own property.

[Sauce Dog]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

other Snyder films being bloated

So, he did say something right in the video after all?  

Kidding and click-bait titles aside, the video talking about the many canisters and work print is factual - there was no final Snyder release cut, only his vision of that that would be and work up to that point, and the limitation for theatrical release is very real industry issue I hear about often (my wife works in that cinema space, and even dumping his full cut to a DCP only release isn't a smart move for a variety of factors)

I'm happy to see what comes from this - experimental releases are always a neat curiosity, but I do think due to the pressure and expectations from the fanbase (and not wanting to turn off the general public) the studio will opt to not use as much of the work print footage as they possibly could have (what effect this has on Snyder's original vision has yet to be seen). 

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

So, he did say something right in the video after all?  

Kidding and click-bait titles aside, the video talking about the many canisters and work print is factual - there was no final Snyder release cut, only his vision of that that would be and work up to that point, and the limitation for theatrical release is very real industry issue I hear about often (my wife works in that cinema space, and even dumping his full cut to a DCP only release isn't a smart move for a variety of factors)

I'm happy to see what comes from this - experimental releases are always a neat curiosity, but I do think due to the pressure and expectations from the fanbase (and not wanting to turn off the general public) the studio will opt to not use as much of the work print footage as they possibly could have (what effect this has on Snyder's original vision has yet to be seen). 

Actually, if you watch the Kevin Smith overview video that covered what WB cut out of the film, at one point a woman in the audience logically shares (like Dan Olson) she was part of a test screening that had Darkseid in it along with other content that was not in the Theatrical Cut. If all that content wasn't polished up enough to show it to a test audience, how did she see it?

What comes of this based on the reactions of the HBO Max audience will be interesting. Is WB open enough to continuing this forward, knowing they already have a new Batman (though it is more a Year One production)? Are some of the actors open to continuing the story? They seem super-supportive of Zack Snyder to the point they are coming out and posting vidoes and messages about their excitement. Time will tell.

[Sauce Dog]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

 If all that content wasn't polished up enough to show it to a test audience, how did she see it?

The Darkseid content might have been complete, but there is much other stuff Snyder has spoken about as never being completed (or even shot), such as the Martian Manhunter stuff. Just because someone saw some of the footage does not mean all other cut Snyder-stuff was complete, I have no problem believing his stuff was in a variety of stages of completion.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Sauce Dog

[Sauce Dog]

I hope the Snyder cut release is financially successful (not speaking about if it's going to be even good or not), as it may spur studios to re-think investing more big-money to complete other lost footage for alternate movie versions (Just thinking about the large amount of characters whose appearances were cut from Marvel films that could be digitally completed as a nice bonus!)

Edited May 22, 2020 by Sauce Dog

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, Sauce Dog said:

The Darkseid content might have been complete, but there is much other stuff Snyder has spoken about as never being completed (or even shot), such as the Martian Manhunter stuff. Just because someone saw some of the footage does not mean all other cut Snyder-stuff was complete, I have no problem believing his stuff was in a variety of stages.

Oh, I get it about there are definitely portions of the film that are going to require finalization or even reshoots that Snyder had planned but never achieved due to his departure.

But when you watch that video you posted, if you step back from taking a stance 'only Snyder supporters are right' Dan Olson tipped his hand he came to that discussion very much on the side of disliking what Snyder has achieved to date. Not as a very informed industry expert talking about the film process in-general. Even the comments about Snyder's films being bloated and incoherent detracted from the educational messaging.

There is a Snyder Cut. Does it require refinement? Why of course. But to imply 'IT DOESN'T EXIST' ignores all of the details. Including all the images Snyder has shared over the months.

[Bosco685]

Someone had an interesting point about Dan Olson's videos (I never saw his contributions until now, but see what he is doing).

Very good comment and very observant which Dan Olson's sycophantic fanbase can't see. Dan Olson has always been an insufferable hipster with horrendous taste and disgusting cynicism. He has been trying for years to come across as a scholar when in reality he is just using the guise of one (e.g. "Saying it calmly to sound logical") in order to push his insular tastes as fact. In reality, any expert in film can see that all Dan is doing is mentioning very rudimentary things in film but since his audience is completely ignorant of it they think he is a some master teacher so that helps him elevate what you correctly called toxic statements. For all of that effort of him creating that fake guise of an expert, Dan is quite immature. He wishes all fantasy based action films would be like Marvel Studio's horrible movies that go against their own source material by filling the movies with so many jokes they are on the verge of parody. That's why in this video he has an anti-Synder slant as reflected by his condescending tone throughout (e.g. referring to comments from Synder supporters as "conspiracy theories" and "wishful thinking", making sure to call the social media Synder communicates on, Vero, as "twitter but empty, claiming the Synder Cut isn't any better than the Joss Whedon Cut). This video was nothing more than Dan masking his childish contempt in a thin veil for movies like Synder's that dare to actually be accurate in tone to the original source material unlike Marvel Studio's with their own comics.

So this appears to be a pattern. And not a good one.

[Ken Aldred]

Unable to finish the film originally because of a personal tragedy, but terrific news now to learn that we'll finally be able to see his version at last.  A far too unfairly-maligned director.

Really looking forward to it.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[Bosco685]

Looks like we will be seeing The Atom.

 

[Bosco685]

So as you view some of the reporting videos that have come out on the situation, and sort through the noise (e.g. "I don't like Snyder, but...."), there are some interesting details blended in.

• WB Pictures's Chairman, Toby Emmerich, did not want to revisit the Snyder Cut after his previous decision to dismiss the WB/DC film direction
• Walter Hamada had also not wanted to revisit the Snyder Cut, naturally, because he had set a new standalone films direction
• November, 2019, AT&T executives saw the massive response to Disney+'s The Mandalorian and knew its pending streaming service needed its own candidate
• AT&T, as part of its effort to build out its WarnerMedia streaming platform HBO Max, mandated Emmerich approach Snyder about a Snyder Cut after recognizing the substantial fan support
• WB worked with The Hollywood Reporter to release an announcement piece that made all the WB and DC executives appear to be super-supportive of the Snyder Cut from the beginning
• We will be getting a 'Snyder Cut', but most probably this will be the four-hour assembly cut Snyder had created prior to finalized the film - most probably cut into episodes

• This will not be the original Snyder Cut assumed by many fans, though that is not a negative result
• It was assumed what it would be was Justice League Part 1 so the end product would be a cliffhanger without a follow-up
• What we will get is a completed movie instead over four hours
• In the end, this could be much better than originally envisioned by fans

[Sauce Dog]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Someone had an interesting point about Dan Olson's videos (I never saw his contributions until now, but see what he is doing).

Very good comment and very observant which Dan Olson's sycophantic fanbase can't see. Dan Olson has always been an insufferable hipster with horrendous taste and disgusting cynicism. He has been trying for years to come across as a scholar when in reality he is just using the guise of one (e.g. "Saying it calmly to sound logical") in order to push his insular tastes as fact. In reality, any expert in film can see that all Dan is doing is mentioning very rudimentary things in film but since his audience is completely ignorant of it they think he is a some master teacher so that helps him elevate what you correctly called toxic statements. For all of that effort of him creating that fake guise of an expert, Dan is quite immature. He wishes all fantasy based action films would be like Marvel Studio's horrible movies that go against their own source material by filling the movies with so many jokes they are on the verge of parody. That's why in this video he has an anti-Synder slant as reflected by his condescending tone throughout (e.g. referring to comments from Synder supporters as "conspiracy theories" and "wishful thinking", making sure to call the social media Synder communicates on, Vero, as "twitter but empty, claiming the Synder Cut isn't any better than the Joss Whedon Cut). This video was nothing more than Dan masking his childish contempt in a thin veil for movies like Synder's that dare to actually be accurate in tone to the original source material unlike Marvel Studio's with their own comics.

So this appears to be a pattern. And not a good one.

Not really seeing the need to go after his character, I'm not a follower of his but the general outline (separate from his opinions about quality) he presented of what shape the Snyder cut footage could be in was still fine (and the amount of money work estimated to put it together into something suitable for release). Him wishing all movies were like Marvel is just his opinion, and everyone has those - so it's easy to spot his bias, but that doesn't make everything he says about Snyder footage incorrect by default. I rather look at the arguments first and foremost, rather than the person saying them. He isn't a scholar nor a professional critic of course, but next to zero people making videos online are, at least with him he has a filmography and some experience behind him when talking about storytelling flow - so it is what it is.

Aside: As for him saying Vero is 'twitter but empty'....he's absolutely right. I've used Vero (requested by a client for my job unfortunatly) and it was awful to use and wasn't anything comparable to Twitter (Last time I used it a few years ago I recall it being around 4 or 5 million total accounts, compared to Twitter's 300+ million active users) so anyone using it isn't going to have anywhere close to the reach. Snyder only setup on the Vero app because it was his friend who was the billionaire that founded it, and having Snyder exclusive to the platform would help bring people to the paid social service - he was financially motivated to move, not because it was a superior service (he is now back on Twitter). So crapping on Vero is totally a correct thing to do in any industry that values exposure
 

Quote

• We will be getting a 'Snyder Cut', but most probably this will be the four-hour assembly cut Snyder had created prior to finalized the film - most probably cut into episodes

This is the interesting part, but I really feel it won't happen - but that's a good thing. If Snyder now the benefit of a longer run time and budget, at the cost of it being episodic in its release, I can see him revisiting and reimagining the entire flow of his story to better take advantage of that structure. This would also give all parties involved a free 'out' in case it isn't met with praise, they can just say this televised version is obviously not the original intended cut he was working towards initially under different theatrical constraints. I can see him wanting to create the best version of the story he had, and not limiting himself to just forcing an episode cut on a prior version.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Sauce Dog

[theCapraAegagrus]

8 hours ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

This is very cool ! I’ve enjoyed Snyder’s work as far back as D of the D , I felt that the Justice League film was incredibly rushed and very jumbled - but even being a Marvel fanatic - I’m looking forward to this quite a bit 

Enjoying both cinematic universes is The Way.

[Bosco685]

Martian Manhunter has spoken!

 

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Sauce Dog said:

Not really seeing the need to go after his character, I'm not a follower of his but the general outline (separate from his opinions about quality) he presented of what shape the Snyder cut footage could be in was still fine (and the amount of money work estimated to put it together into something suitable for release). Him wishing all movies were like Marvel is just his opinion, and everyone has those - so it's easy to spot his bias, but that doesn't make everything he says about Snyder footage incorrect by default. I rather look at the arguments first and foremost, rather than the person saying them. He isn't a scholar nor a professional critic of course, but next to zero people making videos online are, at least with him he has a filmography and some experience behind him when talking about storytelling flow - so it is what it is.

He clearly has an agenda when he inserts toxic comments versus sticking to an educational discussion. It degrades the finer points being made.

If you read many of the comments below his video, you notice quite a few folks call this out when it comes to non-MCU films. It is what it is when you allow your message to appear biased like that.

1 hour ago, Sauce Dog said:

Aside: As for him saying Vero is 'twitter but empty'....he's absolutely right. I've used Vero (requested by a client for my job unfortunatly) and it was awful to use and wasn't anything comparable to Twitter (Last time I used it a few years ago I recall it being around 4 or 5 million total accounts, compared to Twitter's 300+ million active users) so anyone using it isn't going to have anywhere close to the reach. Snyder only setup on the Vero app because it was his friend who was the billionaire that founded it, and having Snyder exclusive to the platform would help bring people to the paid social service - he was financially motivated to move, not because it was a superior service (he is now back on Twitter). So crapping on Vero is totally a correct thing to do in any industry that values exposure

 

More accounts doesn't equate to more effective.

How many times do we happen across stories where people create shill accounts on Twitter to help boost their own stories? And you see this even more frequently when a production comes out people are excited to see not do well for whatever reason, and accounts created that month all of a sudden have very toxic opinions they throw out these films. Like someone signed up right there and then just to share how much they disliked a film or TV show. You may not realize that goes on, until you actually frequent and track such productions and the posts associated with them.

But odd you wanted to go into great detail how Snyder set himself up on there due to a billionaire friend. How does that backstory matter? Maybe, Snyder picked up on the games being played on Twitter and wanted to choose a platform where that is less likely. Or is that too sensible?

1 hour ago, Sauce Dog said:

This is the interesting part, but I really feel it won't happen - but that's a good thing. If Snyder now the benefit of a longer run time and budget, at the cost of it being episodic in its release, I can see him revisiting and reimagining the entire flow of his story to better take advantage of that structure. This would also give all parties involved a free 'out' in case it isn't met with praise, they can just say this televised version is obviously not the original intended cut he was working towards initially under different theatrical constraints. I can see him wanting to create the best version of the story he had, and not limiting himself to just forcing an episode cut on a prior version.

He has $20M-$30M to work with. No matter what 'expert insider' you want to reference. To reimagine the the entire thing or a large portion of the film is not even feasible. And, it needs to be released in 2021 to support HBO Max's scheduling and forecasted market penetration plans.

[Sauce Dog]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

If you read many of the comments below his video

Rule #1 to staying sane on the Internet, don't read the youtube comments 

[Sauce Dog]

Either way, I can take or leave his videos (with a large grain of salt) just like the majority of channels being the opposite - very much pro-Snyder or anti-marvel (much like anti-disney etc..).

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

More accounts doesn't equate to more effective.

But odd you wanted to go into great detail how Snyder set himself up on there due to a billionaire friend. How does that backstory matter? Maybe, Snyder picked up on the games being played on Twitter and wanted to choose a platform where that is less likely. Or is that too sensible?

That is very true that the number of accounts doesn't equate a better experience, but in the case of a SOCIAL platform trying to fight against Facebook it 100% does (also bot problems exist across both networks, not just twitter - however on twitter it's easier to figure out. ). I'm sure a few people like it (most likely for the exclusive content from celebrities like Snyder), but overall it was a failure. If Snyder picked up on 'games' being played on Twitter then he clearly was fine with them, because he returned to the platform soon after the launch of Vero and uses it heavily to this day (he is going to go where he can be best promoted or paid. that's the sensible thing). This Vero stuff doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it was just was odd that one of the things your quoted comment wanted to drag Dan for was simply daring to call Vero what it was, 'empty twitter' ( so as you say " it degrades the finer points being made.")
 

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

He has $20M-$30M to work with. No matter what 'expert insider' you want to reference. To reimagine the the entire thing or a large portion of the film is not even feasible. And, it needs to be released in 2021 to support HBO Max's scheduling and forecasted market penetration plans.

I should clarify, when I say 're-imagine' I mean the structure and story flow, not totally brand new footage or new subplots. A good example is if you compare many Japanese OVAs to their theatrical releases, it's clear just how different the same story / pacing / tone can be when going from theatrical to episodic (or vice versa. Macross Plus is a good example of this - showing my age now). So basically, I just mean saying that we're just getting the 'assembly cut' is most certainly the wrong way to discuss this upcoming release unless Snyder explicitly says 'hey, I just used that version with extra finishing'  I think he will take this opportunity to deliver something better than what he left on before.

[Bosco685]

12 hours ago, Sauce Dog said:

Either way, I can take or leave his videos (with a large grain of salt) just like the majority of channels being the opposite - very much pro-Snyder or anti-marvel (much like anti-disney etc..).

Most channels are pro-Snyder, Anti-Disney/Marvel? Not sure what video channels you may have happened across. 

Quote

That is very true that the number of accounts doesn't equate a better experience, but in the case of a SOCIAL platform trying to fight against Facebook it 100% does (also bot problems exist across both networks, not just twitter - however on twitter it's easier to figure out. ). I'm sure a few people like it (most likely for the exclusive content from celebrities like Snyder), but overall it was a failure. If Snyder picked up on 'games' being played on Twitter then he clearly was fine with them, because he returned to the platform soon after the launch of Vero and uses it heavily to this day (he is going to go where he can be best promoted or paid. that's the sensible thing). This Vero stuff doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it was just was odd that one of the things your quoted comment wanted to drag Dan for was simply daring to call Vero what it was, 'empty twitter' ( so as you say " it degrades the finer points being made.")

Zack Snyder (@ZackSnyder):

• Joined Twitter: November 2008
• 2020 Posts: 15 total
• 2019 Posts: 15 total
• Total Twitter Followers: 741.3K with all that limited posting

I think you may be assuming due to the extensive responses he receives to anything he posts that Zack Snyder is a big Twitter poster. That's not the case. But hey, I was dragging Dan for his 'empty Twitter' comment. Meanwhile, due to Snyder being on VERO he has - checks notes - 323.98K followers. Including me (green check mark).

Like the legendary Yogi Berra is credited as stating, "That place is so busy nobody goes there anymore". 

I'm going to assume from your posts you are not a fan of Zack Snyder, nor research on anything to do with him. Just leaning into those videos that may detract from his work, and possibly his character. 

Quote

I should clarify, when I say 're-imagine' I mean the structure and story flow, not totally brand new footage or new subplots. A good example is if you compare many Japanese OVAs to their theatrical releases, it's clear just how different the same story / pacing / tone can be when going from theatrical to episodic (or vice versa. Macross Plus is a good example of this - showing my age now). So basically, I just mean saying that we're just getting the 'assembly cut' is most certainly the wrong way to discuss this upcoming release unless Snyder explicitly says 'hey, I just used that version with extra finishing'  I think he will take this opportunity to deliver something better than what he left on before.

I think many of us would be totally okay with this, and it is quite acceptable too. Snyder has had a long time to reflect on Justice League and what he intended. So thinking back on some of the story flow and where he meant to take this could lead to fantastic self-reflection what he meant to achieve versus what he filmed. What an amazing opportunity to make a production stronger. This is very rare where a studio opens up such doors. Let's remember why - the massive fan demand for #ReleaseTheSnyderCut. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

12 hours ago, Sauce Dog said:

Rule #1 to staying sane on the Internet, don't read the youtube comments 

Rule #2: But when you do, have fun with it.  

Rule #18: Limber Up

[Bosco685]

AT&T's Twitter account is owning this news.

 

[Bosco685]