Submitting Mags to CGC 3 3

[seanfingh]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Having had time to reflect, there's a lot in my earlier post above that is unfair, I think. I should - and do, I hope - know better. 

There are problems in the model, but it is both pointless and unkind to sling unfounded mud about as I did earlier. I should do less of it, I think.

There are a number of really salient points in that post.  This is such a complex issue.  Honestly, the only reason I am not banging my own shoe is that I haven't submitted in years.  Open exchange of ideas is what will keep this powder keg smouldering instead of exploding, Until it eventually gets so bad that the market actually changes to address the problem.  Then CGC really may have to pivot quickly.

[Axe Elf]

I dunno, I'm fairly new to all this, and grading doesn't seem like such an arcane skill that a little on-the-job training couldn't produce a reasonably skilled grader with a couple weeks of practice.  If you have five reasonably skilled graders look at a book and three of them say it's a 6.5 and one says 6.0 and one says 7.0, it's probably a 6.5.  If one says it's a 2.5 and two say it's a 5.0 and two say it's a 7.5, then you pass it along to three of the more experienced graders and try to find consensus among them.  I wouldn't think you'd need to have your most experienced graders looking at every single book, though, just the ones that have difficult issues to sort out.  The vast majority of "triage" and grading the ones with few or straightforward defects seems like it could be done by initiates with some, if not thorough, training.

Just in the "Buddy Can You Spare a Grade" thread, most of the amateurs here tend to agree, within a half-grade of each other most of the time.  I learned grading standards about a month ago, and most of the time I tend to agree with grading assessments in that forum as well.  If we can do it, CGC can do it!  It's not like you should have to study with the Dalai Lama for decades to tell a 3.0 from a 7.0.

[oakman29]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:24 AM, Axe Elf said:

I dunno, I'm fairly new to all this, and grading doesn't seem like such an arcane skill that a little on-the-job training couldn't produce a reasonably skilled grader with a couple weeks of practice.  If you have five reasonably skilled graders look at a book and three of them say it's a 6.5 and one says 6.0 and one says 7.0, it's probably a 6.5.  If one says it's a 2.5 and two say it's a 5.0 and two say it's a 7.5, then you pass it along to three of the more experienced graders and try to find consensus among them.  I wouldn't think you'd need to have your most experienced graders looking at every single book, though, just the ones that have difficult issues to sort out.  The vast majority of "triage" and grading the ones with few or straightforward defects seems like it could be done by initiates with some, if not thorough, training.

Just in the "Buddy Can You Spare a Grade" thread, most of the amateurs here tend to agree, within a half-grade of each other most of the time.  I learned grading standards about a month ago, and most of the time I tend to agree with grading assessments in that forum as well.  If we can do it, CGC can do it!  It's not like you should have to study with the Dalai Lama for decades to tell a 3.0 from a 7.0.

I agree . A bit of on the job training could do it.👍

 

[darkstar]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:31 AM, This is Who We Are said:

At one point didn't a card grading company put a hold on submissions?  As a business I imagine that's the last thing you want to do, but seems like they will otherwise run this train off the rails.  If I understand correctly, you pay for Economy, it means someone able/willing to pay more, essentially gets to cut in line, thus pushing your TAT back...I guess they only have so many graders, but a parallel process seems in order (one for fast track, the other for Economy and they shouldn't intersect).  But as stated above, a 2 year wait is ludicrous and unsustainable IMHO and that is if even if one of the "corners" (quality) was there.  Wonder if people will eventually pick up there ball and go pay a visit to the other competitor(s)....in this case, I didn't but ask me in six months, a year or a year and a half if I'm happy I submitted my books to CGC?

PSA and BGS both halted grading and raised their prices to absurd levels. Too much new money moving into sports and trading cards and slabbing brand new garbage, really no different than CGC with comics, every book gets retailer and convention variants and the market is flooded with trash, because people will buy it. But then you have a ton of 9.8 rejects that still get graded and they never sell.

Edited March 2, 2022 by darkstar

[seanfingh]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:37 PM, oakman29 said:

I agree . A bit of on the job training could do it.👍

 

Hilarious.  Grading comics that are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, to scrupulously high standards, with the world waiting to pounce on every slight under or over grade, defects blown up to 10x their size - on this very site, and all it takes is "a bit of on the job training."

indeed.  Good thing your thumb is up there - at least your head won't fit.

[Randall Dowling]

On 3/2/2022 at 3:27 PM, seanfingh said:

Hilarious.  Grading comics that are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, to scrupulously high standards, with the world waiting to pounce on every slight under or over grade, defects blown up to 10x their size - on this very site, and all it takes is "a bit of on the job training."

indeed.  Good thing your thumb is up there - at least your head won't fit.

Respectfully, I think this is unfair.  When I managed a comic book store in the early 90s, I trained a few people how to grade.  It's not like being a doctor.  It's not rocket science.  There are nuances and it takes a little time.

But I can assure you, it takes far less time than it takes to teach someone how to use complex 3D modeling software.  Or how to put a building together.

I don't think you're giving people enough credit.  

[oakman29]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:27 PM, seanfingh said:

Hilarious.  Grading comics that are worth thousands and thousands of dollars, to scrupulously high standards, with the world waiting to pounce on every slight under or over grade, defects blown up to 10x their size - on this very site, and all it takes is "a bit of on the job training."

indeed.  Good thing your thumb is up there - at least your head won't fit.

 

That's quite funny! However it's got to start somewhere and somebody's got to learn how to grade I'm sure that any one of us could be a grader at cgc, where did we learn it?

That's right experience. 

 

[oakman29]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:53 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Respectfully, I think this is unfair.  When I managed a comic book store in the early 90s, I trained a few people how to grade.  It's not like being a doctor.  It's not rocket science.  There are nuances and it takes a little time.

But I can assure you, it takes far less time than it takes to teach someone how to use complex 3D modeling software.  Or how to put a building together.

I don't think you're giving people enough credit.  

It's a skill , just like any other. I'm sure ther was a very good Attorney who helped Seanfingh become the awesome lawyer he is now when he was but a paralegal first starting out in the world of law.

Is it so ridiculous Sean to hire and train graders?

 

[oakman29]

I dont submit comics so I really have no skin in the game, but of course their current business model is clearly working to full capacity.

[The Lions Den]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:01 PM, oakman29 said:

 

That's quite funny! However it's got to start somewhere and somebody's got to learn how to grade I'm sure that any one of us could be a grader at cgc, where did we learn it?

That's right experience. 

 

To be honest, I've found that roughly 25% of the applicants for a given job end up being good solid employees that stay for a long period of time. CGC's overall success rate may be slightly higher than that, but good solid graders don't grow on trees. And I can't tell you how many folks in the comic industry I've heard say they'd never work for CGC because they have more freedom working on their own. Experience is the best teacher; I just don't see that many folks these days that are willing to take the time to learn...  

[greggy]

Yeah, I got some damage holders here but I've been lucky due to my low numbers due to my number of submissions.

[batmiesta]

Beauty's Greg  Bit of a ball ache about the damage though.

Edited March 3, 2022 by batmiesta

[seanfingh]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:55 PM, oakman29 said:

It's a skill , just like any other. I'm sure ther was a very good Attorney who helped Seanfingh become the awesome lawyer he is now when he was but a paralegal first starting out in the world of law.

Is it so ridiculous Sean to hire and train graders?

 

Not at all. But that is not "a bit of on the job training." It would need to be intensive, and if the people did not grow up with comics, they would need to learn all of the things that many of us learned over years of handling comics.  It takes thousands of hours to become a true expert at something.  I do agree that maybe the pre-graders don't need to be absolute experts, but the finishers do.

Words are important - as they convey the true meaning of what you are trying to say.  Advocating for hiring and training graders (and presumably acknowledging that it would be an arduous task) is one thing, advocating for "a bit of on the job training" is something entirely different. 

 

[troydivision1]

Two weeks ago, after some back and forth with CGC reps, I found out two books from my recent modern slow boat were going to be processed as magazines because they did not fit into the prefabricated modern inner wells.
(there is a copy of these two books posted on these boards in a modern holder with in-house sealed inner well)
This decision was made without any communication to me.

The kick in the teeth is that this decision was made during encapsulation and since they had to shift over to magazines, according to the CS rep...the countdown clock is beginning again at 255 days.
After already having been there 84 business days...
AND I could not choose to expedite the process.
(again, no communication was given to me before they made their decision)

That's something that needs to be figured the flip out.

[wombat]

On 3/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

One thing they could do, is to stop touting for new business. Do you get those e-news emails from CGC? They're so full of everything that is great about CGC - all the wonderful things they are doing, in and around the hobby. Here is an extract from the latest one:

Imagine learning that CGC chose to grade invisible comics before yours that have been waiting months and months for. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:56 PM, wombat said:

Imagine learning that CGC chose to grade invisible comics before yours that have been waiting months and months for. 

 

I can't see that happening.

[wombat]

On 3/3/2022 at 1:28 PM, Troy Division said:

Two weeks ago, after some back and forth with CGC reps, I found out two books from my recent modern slow boat were going to be processed as magazines because they did not fit into the prefabricated modern inner wells.
(there is a copy of these two books posted on these boards in a modern holder with in-house sealed inner well)
This decision was made without any communication to me.

The kick in the teeth is that this decision was made during encapsulation and since they had to shift over to magazines, according to the CS rep...the countdown clock is beginning again at 255 days.
After already having been there 84 business days...
AND I could not choose to expedite the process.
(again, no communication was given to me before they made their decision)

That's something that needs to be figured the flip out.

CGC does not care. At all. That seems pretty clear. 

[OtherEric]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:57 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I can't see that happening.

I see what you did there…

[wombat]

On 3/3/2022 at 1:58 PM, OtherEric said:

On 3/3/2022 at 1:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I can't see that happening.

I see what you did there…

I just like this GIF

[joeypost]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:00 PM, The Lions Den said:

It's tough to see your way out of the jungle when you're in the middle of it...     

Absolutely. Even small timers like myself are being "crushed" by the sheer volume of comics coming in to process. Granted, I am a one-man band and don't have the resources CGC has at their disposal, but no matter how many more presses I buy, no matter how many hours in the day I work, I cannot keep up with the demand. If I do "X" number of books on Monday but get "X + 20" in that same day, I worked hard and went backwards. I am sure it is the same with them. 

Only difference is I keep things honest by not having a fast-track service or offering "special" opportunities like private signings, so first in/first out. Even though I am known more for my involvement in comic books, I do have a master's degree in business administration and have worked for fortune 100 companies. Even those companies, at some point in their growth cycle, bring in outside exerts to review their processes and help them adapt to the new growth and demands on them as a business. While certain members of CGC's management team may be very knowledgeable comic people, the real question that needs to be asked is if they are good businesspeople or truly qualified for their position. Time has a way of pointing these things out.