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In Praise of Single Pages
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Started by GreatCaesarsGhost,

230 posts in this topic

GreatCaesarsGhost

GreatCaesarsGhost

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Ok, it’s official. The price of a page is thru the roof on certain books.
 

There have been a lot of Bat 1 pages showing up on the market lately, and the prices have jumped.  Since there are are 2 Joker stories, there’s a total of 14 Joker pages to every Bat 1.  Up until the last few months, most of the Joker pages could be had for less than a thousand bucks. Now all of a sudden they are bringing $3k-$5k.

there are some who speculate that the price of a page will encourage people to cut up their Bat 1s and sell the pages individually. To them I say “have you seen the prices Bat 1s are now bringing?”      $240k for a 2.0!!!

with only 130 copies on the census, demand for a full book will not motivate sellers to piece their books out.

But how about AF 15? Not the same story. There’s 2265 Universal copies and another 918 restored copies. Since most restoration is on the cover, that’s 3000 AF 15s that could be a source for pages!  Compare that to the 130 Bat 1s on the census. 
 

and now the AF 15 pages have started to hit ludicrous highs. There’s currently 2 or 3 Page 1s offered on the Bay with $10k BINs. And a page 2 just hammered for $5k in an old fashioned auction on the Bay. 
 

time will tell, but the financial motivation to piece out an AF 15 might become a thing. With so many possible sources for pages (over 3000!), I don’t think it makes sense for these pages to continue to bring big money, but who knows

 

2c

Edited by GreatCaesarsGhost
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Sauce Dog

Sauce Dog

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I love and understand the desire for pages from mega rare expensive key books. My best friend has always wanted the 1st Destroyer, but even decades ago it was impossible to find (and when he did it was outside his budget). 

I was finally able to hunt down pages from it and he's going to be the happy owner of the very first page. It scratches the itch of having the book (and the CGC label which he likes) and displays very well since it has Stan Lees name on the cover and features great Destroyer art.

240806863_541352083858251_8497307929107725511_n.thumb.jpg.cf0a3ccc00476ac2a04d84ee9681d9a7.jpg

Full post on my IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTIzXkMMxsB/


 

Edited by Sauce Dog
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Sauce Dog

Sauce Dog

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For me personally I was elated when a found someone selling the Doctor Fate story pages from More Fun #61, my favourite Golden Age issue of his (in which he throws an entire alien planet in a sun, as he figures its faster to kill em all rather than spend the time disarming the alien race). This was a story I LOVED to admire in the original print, as all the reprints of the story I own (even from the expensive DC archive HC) do not replicate the print colors & printing process correctly (and are all printed on bright bone white pages - no!!!!!). 

I had a raw reading copy (as well as a graded one) but due to its condition and page quality it started to become very risky to even open it up to admire these story pages - so I had it graded for its own protection. Once I saw these listed on ebay I jumped on them and hope to have them framed for display and easy viewing.

s-l1600-5.thumb.jpg.eade2d296c53c1a14afe58ffa97d7079.jpg

Edited by Sauce Dog
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BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

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On 1/4/2022 at 5:02 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Ok, it’s official. The price of a page is thru the roof on certain books.
 

There have been a lot of Bat 1 pages showing up on the market lately, and the prices have jumped.  Since there are are 2 Joker stories, there’s a total of 14 Joker pages to every Bat 1.  Up until the last few months, most of the Joker pages could be had for less than a thousand bucks. Now all of a sudden they are bringing $3k-$5k.

there are some who speculate that the price of a page will encourage people to cut up their Bat 1s and sell the pages individually. To them I say “have you seen the prices Bat 1s are now bringing?”      $240k for a 2.0!!!

with only 130 copies on the census, demand for a full book will not motivate sellers to piece their books out.

But how about AF 15? Not the same story. There’s 2265 Universal copies and another 918 restored copies. Since most restoration is on the cover, that’s 3000 AF 15s that could be a source for pages!  Compare that to the 130 Bat 1s on the census. 
 

and now the AF 15 pages have started to hit ludicrous highs. There’s currently 2 or 3 Page 1s offered on the Bay with $10k BINs. And a page 2 just hammered for $5k in an old fashioned auction on the Bay. 
 

time will tell, but the financial motivation to piece out an AF 15 might become a thing. With so many possible sources for pages (over 3000!), I don’t think it makes sense for these pages to continue to bring big money, but who knows

 

2c

I always thought these had value but thought the market should be or would be contained to pages which had already become loose due to wear or because back in the day kids clipped the pages because they didn't want the backup pages.  That was common enough pre-collecting that you'd see key stories appear fairly often.  What I would not have predicted would be slabbing policies that punish the found clipped pages that were destroyed by well-meaning fans by misidentifying them as "restored" while ignoring (and effectively rewarding) the deliberate destruction of coverless pages so they can be slabbed individually.    

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GreatCaesarsGhost

GreatCaesarsGhost

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On 1/5/2022 at 1:50 PM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:

I always thought these had value but thought the market should be or would be contained to pages which had already become loose due to wear or because back in the day kids clipped the pages because they didn't want the backup pages.  That was common enough pre-collecting that you'd see key stories appear fairly often.  What I would not have predicted would be slabbing policies that punish the found clipped pages that were destroyed by well-meaning fans by misidentifying them as "restored" while ignoring (and effectively rewarding) the deliberate destruction of coverless pages so they can be slabbed individually.    

Right.
 

yes, I think there should be an allowance for kids honoring their books in the fashion you suggest. But I guess CGC has made a business decision to steer away from trying to determine motive, and instead adopt a bright line approach that any trimming on the top or bottom or outside edge(away from spine) gets a plod no matter what. But by CGC looking the other way when the spine side of the page is cut, shenanigans ensue. 

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LDarkseid1

LDarkseid1

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On 1/4/2022 at 5:02 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Ok, it’s official. The price of a page is thru the roof on certain books.
 

There have been a lot of Bat 1 pages showing up on the market lately, and the prices have jumped.  Since there are are 2 Joker stories, there’s a total of 14 Joker pages to every Bat 1.  Up until the last few months, most of the Joker pages could be had for less than a thousand bucks. Now all of a sudden they are bringing $3k-$5k.

there are some who speculate that the price of a page will encourage people to cut up their Bat 1s and sell the pages individually. To them I say “have you seen the prices Bat 1s are now bringing?”      $240k for a 2.0!!!

with only 130 copies on the census, demand for a full book will not motivate sellers to piece their books out.

But how about AF 15? Not the same story. There’s 2265 Universal copies and another 918 restored copies. Since most restoration is on the cover, that’s 3000 AF 15s that could be a source for pages!  Compare that to the 130 Bat 1s on the census. 
 

and now the AF 15 pages have started to hit ludicrous highs. There’s currently 2 or 3 Page 1s offered on the Bay with $10k BINs. And a page 2 just hammered for $5k in an old fashioned auction on the Bay. 
 

time will tell, but the financial motivation to piece out an AF 15 might become a thing. With so many possible sources for pages (over 3000!), I don’t think it makes sense for these pages to continue to bring big money, but who knows

 

2c

I owned a Batman 1 qualified CGC .5 once, sold it several years ago in a Clink auction and it sold for shi* lol. Kicking myself big time now! Would easily just part that one away page by page if I still owned it. Can't imagine what would the front cover by itself would sell for now lol.

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BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

Posted
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On 1/5/2022 at 12:38 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Right.
 

yes, I think there should be an allowance for kids honoring their books in the fashion you suggest. But I guess CGC has made a business decision to steer away from trying to determine motive, and instead adopt a bright line approach that any trimming on the top or bottom or outside edge(away from spine) gets a plod no matter what. But by CGC looking the other way when the spine side of the page is cut, shenanigans ensue. 

I can't get in their heads any better than you, and maybe not even as well as you.  But I heard many times that the purpose of the PLOD was to determine the motive behind defects in order to punish those who had sought to deceive (and by extension any books they altered accordingly) in order to disincentivize people doing it any more, so that fewer books would be "desecrated" in the future.  Cut to a few years later when there's a hobbywide scandal involving o/w high grade books that were deliberately trimmed and got slabbed with as unaltered.     That was such a shock to some that it generated a deep feeling of "never again!" outrage and the idea that any trimming should get, as you say, "a PLOD no matter what".  But that, unfortunately, reinforces perceptions that the point of the PLOD is to punish disapproved behavior more than it is to identify something which is not easily determined just by looking at the book.   

So in the case of kiddie-trimmed books it doesn't really sidestep any determination of motive as much as it inaccurately ascribes a motivation which wasn't there, and at the same time it inaccurately implies the item has been improved.    Not the intent, I am sure, but unquestionably the result.

   

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Crowzilla

Crowzilla

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Posted
On 1/4/2022 at 8:02 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

There have been a lot of Bat 1 pages showing up on the market lately, and the prices have jumped.  Since there are are 2 Joker stories, there’s a total of 14 Joker pages to every Bat 1.  Up until the last few months, most of the Joker pages could be had for less than a thousand bucks. Now all of a sudden they are bringing $3k-$5k.

there are some who speculate that the price of a page will encourage people to cut up their Bat 1s and sell the pages individually. To them I say “have you seen the prices Bat 1s are now bringing?”      $240k for a 2.0!!!

with only 130 copies on the census, demand for a full book will not motivate sellers to piece their books out.

2c

You are looking at the wrong census numbers. You need to focus on the 141 restored copies. Most restoration is done to the cover of the books, and what little might be done to a page can easily be pulled off when you are separating pages. Some people keep insisting that low-grade restored Bat 1s are $50K or less, and that is where I think the motivation is to pull them apart and piece them out.

Really, a complete restored Bat 1 should be close to 100K now (as long as ok eye appeal and non-brittle pages)

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Chicago Boy

Chicago Boy

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On 9/8/2020 at 5:29 PM, Chicago Boy said:

Is it weird that I’m angry with you for selling ? 

 

On 10/20/2020 at 5:11 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Thanks Darkseid. I get it that single pages aren’t for everyone, but for guys like you and me . . . Yes!

I love your Zatara page

What do you think it would have graded out as ? Opportunity for pressing etc ?

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Grendel72

Grendel72

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On 1/4/2022 at 9:02 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

 

there are some who speculate that the price of a page will encourage people to cut up their Bat 1s and sell the pages individually. To them I say “have you seen the prices Bat 1s are now bringing?”      $240k for a 2.0!!!

 

 

2c

But it may make sense for those who are holding onto coverless copies especially incomplete ones ? 

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Sauce Dog

Sauce Dog

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On 1/9/2022 at 10:50 AM, Grendel72 said:

But it may make sense for those who are holding onto coverless copies especially incomplete ones ? 

Yup, and honestly I think I prefer having some of these ragged incomplete copies pieced out and enter the market as pages in order to make the 'chase' possible for many collectors (both new and old).

It is sometimes a overwhelming detriment for many who want to start collecting a series to know one of those books are 100% out of their reach forever and they cannot complete it no matter the situation. This also applies to many older collectors who might have stopped trying to build a run as the price of books shot out of reach.

If more AF15 or BAT1 pages enter the market it can make people more open to trying for an original run (stimulating demand for all books in that run) and inject even more excitement as people show those pages off (as remember, many people only show off books with covers - lots of people don't ever have real exposure to the interiors of golden age books in an original way, especially for expensive books. It's super amazing to actually SEE the panels of such a grail when most of the time we've been used to just seeing complete graded copies as they sold at auction)

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Grendel72

Grendel72

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Totally get what you're saying. All the $$$$ issues aside, in many ways, at the heart of it, many of us (myself included) have forgotten what got us started collecting comics and art. And to see such pages kind of rekindles that fire. I wonder how many of us have actually read Action 1,  Batnan1 or Tec 27, even those who own copies. 

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