Nominating RICK STARR
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341 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, G G ® said:

First off I believe you have to wait a full month from POS? But I could be wrong about this.

Per the letter of the law, this is the problem with the nomination. Seems silly in this instance if, indeed, he refused to allow purchase of the book because of seller's remorse after the deal was made. But, as the book was claimed 11 October and it's only the 28th, @RICK STARR has two more weeks to honor the deal before PL.

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1 minute ago, bb8 said:

Per the letter of the law, this is the problem with the nomination. Seems silly in this instance if, indeed, he refused to allow purchase of the book because of seller's remorse after the deal was made. But, as the book was claimed 11 October and it's only the 28th, @RICK STARR has two more weeks to honor the deal before PL.

"c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else."

The seller has made it clear he doesn't intend to honor the transaction.

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1) Was there an agreed upon deal in place? Yes
2) Was there a stated "Payment to be received by" date in the thread rules**? No
3) Did seller cancel deal without cause?  Yes (as far as we know, having heard only one side)

I would say definitely not HOS worthy, Probation worthy if buyer wants to make an issue of it.



 

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2 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

"c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else."

The seller has made it clear he doesn't intend to honor the transaction.

I stand corrected. Be nice to hear from the accused party regardless.

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Ok, this will be my only response to this thread.

First, as of today, still no check has arrived from Mr. Rice (14 days now). Secondly, if the situation was reversed, I would have asked him for first dibs on the BB 113 if and when he decided to sell it. I would have done that for Mr. Rice, if he asked, but not so at this point.

I have allowed a very, very reasonable amount of time for payment. Other buyer's checks have arrived from the states of California and Washington to Maryland in a timely matter. His accusations of me favoring big-time dealers over him is, of course, nonsense and offending to me. At least I can say is they paid on time.

So, no monies exchanged hands, a very reasonable amount of time has been allowed for payment. I decided I want to keep the book for myself and not because I got a better offer from a dealer.

There are no forum guidelines, that I can see, about time limits for non payment. I suppose in future sale threads, if at this point I ever do so, it should be stated so.

I am sorry Mr Rice feels he has been " screwed over". I don't see it that way.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RICK STARR said:

Ok, this will be my only response to this thread.

First, as of today, still no check has arrived from Mr. Rice (14 days now). Secondly, if the situation was reversed, I would have asked him for first dibs on the BB 113 if and when he decided to sell it. I would have done that for Mr. Rice, if he asked, but not so at this point.

I have allowed a very, very reasonable amount of time for payment. Other buyer's checks have arrived from the states of California and Washington to Maryland in a timely matter. His accusations of me favoring big-time dealers over him is, of course, nonsense and offending to me. At least I can say is they paid on time.

So, no monies exchanged hands, a very reasonable amount of time has been allowed for payment. I decided I want to keep the book for myself and not because I got a better offer from a dealer.

There are no forum guidelines, that I can see, about time limits for non payment. I suppose in future sale threads, if at this point I ever do so, it should be stated so.

I am sorry Mr Rice feels he has been " screwed over". I don't see it that way.

 

 

@thewritestuff

Since you're being counter-accused of not paying in a timely manner, can you post the pm back and forth you two wherein you offered to send a new payment?  

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42 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

@thewritestuff

Since you're being counter-accused of not paying in a timely manner, can you post the pm back and forth you two wherein you offered to send a new payment?  

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

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1 minute ago, Foolkiller said:

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

Didn't the buyer reach out to the seller within two weeks to inquire about the check, and the seller's response was that he changed his mind about selling the book? 

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Just now, Foolkiller said:

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

The thing is though, what's the real reason that RICK STARR backed out of the deal?  Was it because payment didn't show up on time (which, at least thewrightstuff claims he attempted to rectify, further evidence pending)?  Or because he changed his mind on selling (which his own words in the pm seem to indicate)? 

The whole exchange between buyer and seller would go a long way here.

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isn't timely payment 30 days unless othewise stated? (I know we all do better than this, but...)

per the probation rules... 

1) 30 Day Rule

a) If a transaction between board members is not completed within 30 days, the offended party may submit the offender's name for inclusion to the HOS/Probation List (hereafter called the PL)

Sounds like Rick can nominate the buyer for the PL if the check doesnt arrive within 30 days, of course the recourse is to send another check (or pay via another acceptable method)

 

One thing I dont see is if the seller can void the transaction (wihch I assume @RICK STARR would want to do) if the 30 day rule is not met... 

I'd suggest that the seller send a replacement check in 2-3 day mail so that it can be tracked AND assure it arrives within the 30 day requirement. 

Edited by miraclemet
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19 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

Requesting payment by check will take longer and is more likely to be delayed, especially during covid, and I think a seller should be patient and reach out to the buyer if payment hasn't been received.  It's pretty clear therightstuff is serious about buying this book and it's pretty clear that Rick Starr has seller's remorse.

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33 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

Check was listed as John’s preferred method of payment (presumable to avoid PayPal fees). 
 

I think it’s a safe assumption that John is aware of the mail slowdown due to COVID. So while 2 weeks would be a reasonable amount of time pre-COVID, is it still reasonable now?  Sure he received his checks from other buyers in a timely fashion but that’s the issue: mail is hit-and-miss right now. 
 

Did John state in his sales thread that his preferred method of payment had to arrive within 2 weeks or the deal was void?  If not, then it seems the standard 30-day rule would be the default. 

Edited by Number 6
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Okay, here goes. The book in question is a Blue Bolt 113. I purchased another Cole book from John several months back after he reached out to me privately after seeing my WTB thread. That book was a Terrors of the Jungle 17. Awesome book! I was psyched that he offered it to me. The reason I mention it is that John apparently has an appreciation for Cole as well, but I find it strange with all the other great books he offered--including many other beautiful Cole books--that he felt the need to pull this one. Again, you will see from our messages that he never indicates any hesitation in selling me this book until the very end. 

I hope this copy-and-paste job will help to clarify my position. I contacted John immediately after I claimed the book. I did not send the check the very next day (which I usually do) because he was sharing other books with me prior to adding them to the thread, in order to see if I was interested in other Cole books. As such, after we discussed his other books, I mailed out the payment on the date noted in the thread (October 14). I have highlighted the portions that I thought to be the most relevant...

 

This first message is from John, after the conversation we had about his other books, which I politely declined. I inquired to confirm the total prior to mailing the check:

Also, total is $1900 for the BB 113. Can you send a check?

John (address deleted-- I did not intentionally include that the first time around)

Thanks, Jim

Hi, John--

 

The check went out in this morning's mail. Please let me know when it arrives. I will be away on the weekend of the 23-25, so depending on when it clears, I may ask that you hold the package so that it won't be shipped to an empty house.

As for the JIUW 26, I am curious to see it. I had a copy that was a little beat up, but I traded it away last year. I have been looking for a replacement... I figure it can't hurt to look!

 

Thanks again,

Jim

 

Hey, John--

 

Just checking to make sure you got my check okay?

   On 10/20/2020 at 5:35 PM, thewritestuff said:

Hey, John--

 

Just checking to make sure you got my check okay?

Did not check my mail box today. But as of yesterday, not yet. Will let you know tomorrow.

Ugh! Please believe me it was sent on the 14th, as noted above. Hopefully it comes today. The post office has been crazy inconsistent lately. I purchased a comic on eBay on Oct 9, and it just arrived in Rhode Island this morning (I'm in Massachusetts), so it will probably still take two days to reach me.

Please keep me updated. If I have to, I will send payment a different way, but the last time I did that (over the summer) the check ended up arriving a couple days later. :pullhair:

Thanks,

Jim

   On 10/21/2020 at 3:48 AM, thewritestuff said:

Ugh! Please believe me it was sent on the 14th, as noted above. Hopefully it comes today. The post office has been crazy inconsistent lately. I purchased a comic on eBay on Oct 9, and it just arrived in Rhode Island this morning (I'm in Massachusetts), so it will probably still take two days to reach me.

Please keep me updated. If I have to, I will send payment a different way, but the last time I did that (over the summer) the check ended up arriving a couple days later. :pullhair:

Thanks,

Jim

Still not here, Jim. its ok, snail mail is the norm now. will let you know when it arrives.

John

Thanks for your patience, John. I just got that comic that was mailed the day before I sent my check, so I imagine the check should not be far behind it. If it doesn't show up in a reasonable time, I will send another one. I hate to sound cheap, but it costs money to cancel the first check, and out of principle I hate that...so if I end up having to send a second one I would just have you tear up the first one, assuming it arrives at all.

   On 10/14/2020 at 2:31 PM, thewritestuff said:

Hi, John--

 

The check went out in this morning's mail. Please let me know when it arrives. I will be away on the weekend of the 23-25, so depending on when it clears, I may ask that you hold the package so that it won't be shipped to an empty house.

As for the JIUW 26, I am curious to see it. I had a copy that was a little beat up, but I traded it away last year. I have been looking for a replacement... I figure it can't hurt to look!

 

Thanks again,

Jim

 

Hi. John. If the check does. It get there by tomorrow, I’m going to assume it’s lost and send another check in the late afternoon with tracking. I don’t want you to have to wait any longer than you have for the payment 

Jim

   On 10/25/2020 at 10:45 AM, thewritestuff said:

Hi. John. If the check does. It get there by tomorrow, I’m going to assume it’s lost and send another check in the late afternoon with tracking. I don’t want you to have to wait any longer than you have for the payment 

Jim

Jim, not in Saturday's mail. Give it one more day (Monday).

John

Hi Jim,

Well, I am sorry still no check in today's mail. Actually, it is just as well for me because I have decided to keep the book. I know you aren't going to like it and, no I do not have another offer from another buyer. just looking at this great cover and asking myself, why did I decide to sell it in the first place. My sales thread was very successful and I do not need the money. So, don't think ill of me, I am a collector not a dealer looking for more money. If by some chance your check does arrive, I will notify you and let me know what to do with it. Take care,    John

Hi, John--

You are correct that I am not happy. This entire thing sounds very fishy to me. 

When I first came upon your thread, it appeared as though no one had put in a single bid on anything within the first few hours. Being a small time collector, I was agonizing over several books before I decided on the Blue Bolt 113. 

After I declared "Take" there was a flurry of activity, after which many, if not all, of the books were scooped up. 

You later told me there was "loads of interest" in that one book, and even offered me other books in addition to that one before posting them on the thread. At no time did you even hint at the fact that you were thinking of keeping that one book.

I mailed you a payment within a day (October 14) and emailed you to inform you that it was on its way. I know the mail is slow, but I am suspicious of your claim that the check never arrived and it just so happens that you're fine with that because you decided to keep the book. 

In the meantime, I see that highgradecomics.com has not only received five or six books from the very same thread, but has already posted them for sale. For some reason, I feel as though you wouldn't have reneged on the Blue Bolt if a big time collector/dealer purchased it, but for little old me you feel okay doing it.

In the meantime, it is October 26. You advised me to keep waiting to see if the check arrived. I wanted to make sure I got it to you on time, and offered more than once to send a replacement check. You advised me to keep waiting.

 

Again, at no time did you suggest that you were having second thoughts about selling it, and apparently had no second thoughts on your other books from that thread. In the meantime, I have passed on several other books in recent sales threads, as well as the Heritage auction, since I thought I had money tied up in this book. So, in a sense, I got screwed twice. First, on the Blue Bolt 113, and again by letting other books pass that I would love to have bid on.

 

 Let's recap:

1. You posted numerous books for sale, and told me there was "loads of interest" on this one, in spite of the fact that your thread had been posted for hours before the first person (me) purchased anything. Later that day, buyers came in droves and snapped up the books in a frenzy.

2. I send a check on October 14, and after a week or so you claim you never received it and you instruct me to give it more time. I know the mail has been slow (as you point out) and so I agree to wait...

3. After several messages exchanged between us in relation to the payment, on Oct. 21 I offer to send a replacement check, but you again state that I should give you more time.

4.  On October 25, I again offer to mail a replacement check, and you instruct me to wait until Monday.

5. On October 25, I see that Highgradecomics.com has posted 5 to 6 books from your sales thread. It seems strange that he's already received his books and listed them for sale, while you have yet to even receive my payment, but I give you the benefit of the doubt.

5. On Monday October 26, you tell me the check has yet to arrive, but you're fine with that because you decided to keep the book.

You are correct that I am unhappy John. I feel as though I was taken for a ride, and I do not know that I can even trust you enough to believe that my check never got there.

If payment was an issue, I would have either mailed another check or sent an instant payment. It seems as though everyone else received their purchases, so the only book that you had seller's remorse on was the first book to go in your sales thread, the same one that had "loads of interest". All the other Cole books, including those you offered to me privately, appear to have been sold, most of them to a prominent dealer.

Again, being a small time collector, I had to make tough decisions and let other books pass as I eagerly awaited this book that anyone could have claimed in the thread, and I wonder if your decision to renege would not have happened had a big time dealer or collector been the one to "take" the book instead of me. 

You have some great books, and we already did business on one book in the past, so you are also losing a customer here, although I don't think you give a bleep about that. I suppose my only recourse is to nominate you for the naughty list, so here goes...

Jim

 

 

 

   On 10/27/2020 at 12:11 AM, thewritestuff said:

Hi, John--

You are correct that I am not happy. This entire thing sounds very fishy to me. 

When I first came upon your thread, it appeared as though no one had put in a single bid on anything within the first few hours. Being a small time collector, I was agonizing over several books before I decided on the Blue Bolt 113. 

After I declared "Take" there was a flurry of activity, after which many, if not all, of the books were scooped up. 

You later told me there was "loads of interest" in that one book, and even offered me other books in addition to that one before posting them on the thread. At no time did you even hint at the fact that you were thinking of keeping that one book.

I mailed you a payment within a day (October 14) and emailed you to inform you that it was on its way. I know the mail is slow, but I am suspicious of your claim that the check never arrived and it just so happens that you're fine with that because you decided to keep the book. 

In the meantime, I see that highgradecomics.com has not only received five or six books from the very same thread, but has already posted them for sale. For some reason, I feel as though you wouldn't have reneged on the Blue Bolt if a big time collector/dealer purchased it, but for little old me you feel okay doing it.

In the meantime, it is October 26. You advised me to keep waiting to see if the check arrived. I wanted to make sure I got it to you on time, and offered more than once to send a replacement check. You advised me to keep waiting.

 

Again, at no time did you suggest that you were having second thoughts about selling it, and apparently had no second thoughts on your other books from that thread. In the meantime, I have passed on several other books in recent sales threads, as well as the Heritage auction, since I thought I had money tied up in this book. So, in a sense, I got screwed twice. First, on the Blue Bolt 113, and again by letting other books pass that I would love to have bid on.

 

 Let's recap:

1. You posted numerous books for sale, and told me there was "loads of interest" on this one, in spite of the fact that your thread had been posted for hours before the first person (me) purchased anything. Later that day, buyers came in droves and snapped up the books in a frenzy.

2. I send a check on October 14, and after a week or so you claim you never received it and you instruct me to give it more time. I know the mail has been slow (as you point out) and so I agree to wait...

3. After several messages exchanged between us in relation to the payment, on Oct. 21 I offer to send a replacement check, but you again state that I should give you more time.

4.  On October 25, I again offer to mail a replacement check, and you instruct me to wait until Monday.

5. On October 25, I see that Highgradecomics.com has posted 5 to 6 books from your sales thread. It seems strange that he's already received his books and listed them for sale, while you have yet to even receive my payment, but I give you the benefit of the doubt.

5. On Monday October 26, you tell me the check has yet to arrive, but you're fine with that because you decided to keep the book.

You are correct that I am unhappy John. I feel as though I was taken for a ride, and I do not know that I can even trust you enough to believe that my check never got there.

If payment was an issue, I would have either mailed another check or sent an instant payment. It seems as though everyone else received their purchases, so the only book that you had seller's remorse on was the first book to go in your sales thread, the same one that had "loads of interest". All the other Cole books, including those you offered to me privately, appear to have been sold, most of them to a prominent dealer.

Again, being a small time collector, I had to make tough decisions and let other books pass as I eagerly awaited this book that anyone could have claimed in the thread, and I wonder if your decision to renege would not have happened had a big time dealer or collector been the one to "take" the book instead of me. 

You have some great books, and we already did business on one book in the past, so you are also losing a customer here, although I don't think you give a bleep about that. I suppose my only recourse is to nominate you for the naughty list, so here goes...

Jim

 

 

 

Wow! As I said to you, I am keeping the book for myself. I have collected, traded and sold books since 1977. I have an EXCELLENT reputation with many other collectors and dealers. Yes, Storms bought some books from me and what he decides what to do with them is his business. SO, there is NOTHING fishy going on, I recent that! It's MY BOOK, if I chose to keep it, its my prerogative. I have a 1256 positive (100%) feedback on Ebay. I don't what else to say. I DO NOT have your check!!! Sorry, you are upset. It's just a comic book, Jim.

John

John, yes of course that is your prerogative, but it.is a TERRIBLE way to do business. Why post the book if you were so attached to it? Why make me wait almost two weeks before finally arriving at that conclusion?

I don't care about the fact that another dealer put the books up for sale, I was pointing out that you did not change your mind about any of those books... just the single book purchased by a little old collector (me). It's not my "fault" that you ended up selling so many other books that you no longer needed the money. The $1900 I sent you is not chump change to me, so that was almost two grand tied up for weeks...and for what? At the very least, you should have told me before I even mailed the check.

You claim to be a collector and not a dealer, so try to see it from my point of view. I've waited five years for a nice graded copy of Blue Bolt 113. After a purchase of a BB111 a few months back, the issue 1113 is the last one I need to complete the Cole horror run from issue 110-119, all 6.0 or higher. It would have been my first completed run.

I was ecstatic to complete this tiny accomplishment. 

You claim to be an eBay seller with amazing feedback. I am certain you would NOT have great feedback if you put an item up for auction only to tell the winner after the auction ends, "sorry, I decided to keep it."  

Whether you want to describe yourself as a collector, a dealer, or just a guy who's into comics, you should understand what it's like to be Charlie Browned after a deal has been finalized and money has theoretically traded hands.

No need to respond, John. You've made your feelings very clear, and there is no further need for discussion.

 

John, I have been told that I am to inform you that I have posted a probation nomination, and that you have 3 days to respond to it.

Edited by thewritestuff
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10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Did John state in his sales thread that his preferred method of payment had to arrive within 2 weeks or the deal was void?  If not, then it seems the standard 30-day rule would be the default. 

No

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