WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) So I'm looking at selling two "gruesome" comic mags. Both I had done a PGM on. But the difference in grading has me perplexed. I'm not seeing such a huge discrepancy between the two as indicated in the estimated grades. Maybe someone can enlighten me to what I'm missing? Links to both: https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/479637-pgm-tales-of-voodoo-vol-2-1/?tab=comments#comment-11492966 Grade Estimates: 6.5 https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/479638-pgm-tales-from-the-tomb-vol-5-5/?tab=comments#comment-11492968 Grade Estimates: 9.0/9.2 EDIT: And both mostly graded by the same people. Not disputing, just trying to understand the major differences that would make the two so different in scale. My estimation before PGM both is that the 6.5 would have been higher and the 9.0/9.2 lower. Edited January 1, 2021 by WPPJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzutak Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, WPPJames said: The difference in grading has me perplexed. I'm not seeing such a huge discrepancy between the two as indicated in the estimated grades. Maybe someone can enlighten me to what I'm missing. Look again! The large difference in grade is primarily due to the large difference in spine wear (where "wear" includes color-breaking and non color-breaking transverse ticks, longitudinal reading stress, ink rubs, and soiling). Maybe these cropped images will help: Randall Ries 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Speaking on behalf of myself for myself and nobody else but myself... The Voodoo FC and BC spine displays multiple color breaking defects along the entire length of the book while the FC lower right corner has what appears to be a diagonal color breaking crease approximately 3-4 inches in length and additionally, all four corners are generally soft. The Tales is a much cleaner copy showing much less in the way of general defects along the spine. The corners are all much tighter with some slight blunting but not enough to knock the book below vf/nm imho. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Thanks guys. I couldn't ask for a more detailed explanation than that. I need to pay more attention to the spine when evaluating. Also, I honestly have no idea how I missed the one rusty staple and the crease in the bottom right corner on the TOV. It's all right there. I must have looked at them and scanned them late at night when the office was dark. At least that's the story I'm sticking with. Happy New Year to all! Funnybooks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Happy New Year We are all constantly learning...As a whole, we also tend to undergrade/grade more critically The Lions Den and WPPJames 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Funnybooks said: .As a whole, we also tend to undergrade/grade more critically Unless it's our own book. The we sometimes see it through "owner eyes". That's why this forum is great. You get unbiased opinions. Some brutally so The Lions Den and Funnybooks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, WPPJames said: Thanks guys. I couldn't ask for a more detailed explanation than that. I need to pay more attention to the spine when evaluating. The spine is always the first thing I look at when grading any book... Funnybooks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: The spine is always the first thing I look at when grading any book... Good to know. You guys are way out of my league grading wise. I mostly just do an eyeball test. And the spine doesn't hit my eyeballs that often. I guess I can make my New Year's resolution to look closer at comic book spines? It's easier than exercising; drinking less or dieting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, WPPJames said: Good to know. You guys are way out of my league grading wise. I mostly just do an eyeball test. And the spine doesn't hit my eyeballs that often. I guess I can make my New Year's resolution to look closer at comic book spines? It's easier than exercising; drinking less or dieting. You can tell a lot about a book just by looking at the spine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: The spine is always the first thing I look at when grading any book... Agreed. Spine to corners and the rest will narrow a grade down considerably at first site...and then the book returns from CGC and you can scratch your head in disbelief..haha Edited January 1, 2021 by Funnybooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 9 hours ago, WPPJames said: EDIT: And both mostly graded by the same people. Not disputing, just trying to understand the major differences that would make the two so different in scale. My estimation before PGM both is that the 6.5 would have been higher and the 9.0/9.2 lower. I really like the fact that you're trying to learn more about grading; good for you! One thing I can tell you is that comparing books is not something that usually takes place in the CGC grading room---that's usually done only for purposes of verifying specific things about a book, such as missing pages and the like. Each book should be graded individually, with no other goal in mind but to arrive at the most accurate and reasonable grade for that book. Studying a grading guide (such as the Overstreet guide) is a great way to get a feel for the different grades. But an even better way is to go through the Heritage archives and study different CGC graded books and their flaws. And then there's the ultimate learning tool---grading the books themselves. The more of them you grade, the easier it is to arrive at the proper grade range. Then it's just a matter of elimination---which grade do you feel best describes that particular book? I hope this helps, and happy new year! Funnybooks and WPPJames 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Funnybooks said: Agreed. Spine to corners and the rest will narrow a grade down considerably at first site...and then the book returns from CGC and you can scratch your head in disbelief..haha That kinda makes me wonder. A long time ago when I was even less experienced at grading, I sent in multiple copies of the original Crow mini-series. All 1st printing. I had purchased new from a distributor. Never read by myself. All came back 9.0 or higher. Except one at 8.5. I was flabbergasted. To my virgin eyes it looked identical to the rest. I don't recall if CGC wasn't providing notes at that time or I just wasn't aware they did and didn't look. Maybe that book had some spine issues. Obviously just because a book is "new and unread" doesn't mean it is without flaws. EDIT: Not a distributer. One of the pre-order comic book services. I forget the name. They were more catered to the casual comic book person. You didn't have to order as far in advance as the services used by more experienced comic book people. You guys could probably name the company and I'd recall it. So sometimes they would be unable to fully fill your order on certain comics. The Crow was one. I actually pre-ordered a lot more than I received. Oh well, live and learn. Edited January 1, 2021 by WPPJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, WPPJames said: That kinda makes me wonder. A long time ago when I was even less experienced at grading, I sent in multiple copies of the original Crow mini-series. All 1st printing. I had purchased new from a distributor. Never read by myself. All came back 9.0 or higher. Except one at 8.5. I was flabbergasted. To my virgin eyes it looked identical to the rest. I don't recall if CGC wasn't providing notes at that time or I just wasn't aware they did and didn't look. Maybe that book had some spine issues. Obviously just because a book is "new and unread" doesn't mean it is without flaws. There are hundreds of books that are "new and unread" sent to CGC every week. But many of them will only grade in the 9.4 - 9.6 range. Flaws such as finger bends and smears, light spine stress and spine wear and other minor defects can take a book out of the Near Mint range... Edited January 1, 2021 by The Lions Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lions Den said: There are hundreds of books that are "new and unread" sent to CGC every week. But many of them will only grade in the 9.4 - 9.6 range. Flaws such as finger bends and smears, light spine stress and spine wear and other minor defects can take a book out of the Near Mint range... Looking back there were probably some finger print smears on it. Maybe I had been eating Cheetos. That could have easily been cleaned off at a small cost if I'd have known at the time. You learn best when it hits you $$$. Edited January 1, 2021 by WPPJames The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csaag Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Also, on the one with the 6.5 estimates, is that a stain by the "Death Strikes Four"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPPJames Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 16 hours ago, csaag said: Also, on the one with the 6.5 estimates, is that a stain by the "Death Strikes Four"? No I don't think so. I just looked again and don't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
