Has Interest In Batman #232 Dropped? 2 2

[William-James88]

10 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

However, I would find it hard to believe that this discount is normally 25% lower. That seems to be a lot, in my opinion.

 

That is literally the exact discount people have quoted in previous discussions on the very same topic. If you have full confidence in this being equal to a CGC book, then your best option is to spend some money to get this in a CGC holder. Then you'll get the price you want. If you don't want to spend that money, then sell it discounted, as you bought it, so that someone else can try their luck with it.

 

Also, why didn,t you take the 1,200 offer?

Edited February 11, 2021 by William-James88

[Math Teacher]

3 hours ago, William-James88 said:

I'm a bit confused, why would you say it has fallen out of favour when you are being offered more money than what you spent on it? Look at the year you bought it at 900 in a voldy 9.4 slab and look at how much the CGC version of the same book was going for at the same time. Were they the same? How much was a CGC 9.4 going for when you bought yours? With that answer, you'll basically be answering your own question.

I may be incorrect about your reasoning. I purchased an AF #15 CGC 2.5 for $15,700 in December. Yes, it's CGC, not CBCS. So if I try to sell it today, I should be willing to accept an offer of $17,000, even though the most recent sale of this book was for $19,000, just because I am getting more than I paid for it? I think not.

[Math Teacher]

2 hours ago, the blob said:

You found one example from nearly a year ago. I assume the same seller as well? Absolutely bizarre that they would have auctions ending within 20 seconds for the same book? Are people stupid? Why on earth would someone list the same book to end so close? And I see this a lot.

First, why would you assume that it is the same seller? I have purchased books at auctions from ComicLink, and I don't believe that the seller's identity was part of the equation. Can you please indicate an auction site (other than Ebay) that posts the seller's identity? I just looked at Heritage, and this information is nowhere to be found. In fact, why would this be done at all? How does revealing the seller's identity have anything to do with purchasing a book? IMO, revealing the seller's identity would lead to nothing but trouble.

Secondly, when a ComicLink auction takes places, all the books available in the auction are posted pretty much at the same time (yes, the times vary by some amount, but it is not a large amount). If the seller puts a book up for auction on ComicLink, they have no control about when it will be listed.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Math Teacher

[Math Teacher]

22 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

That is literally the exact discount people have quoted in previous discussions on the very same topic. If you have full confidence in this being equal to a CGC book, then your best option is to spend some money to get this in a CGC holder. Then you'll get the price you want. If you don't want to spend that money, then sell it discounted, as you bought it, so that someone else can try their luck with it.

 

Also, why didn,t you take the 1,200 offer?

This may be true, but I read this board every day, and I can't remember the thread where this was debated. I'm sure you'll be able to prove me wrong. Also, if I send it to be graded, I would have to pay $15 - $20 to ship it there, $100 to have it graded, and $15 - $20 to have it shipped back. Not only is there a cost involved, the book will be handled by USPS once and FedEx once. Perhaps you should view my thread about damaged boxes. Perhaps that will help you understand why I am not really interested in sending this book to CGC. If I send the book to CGC or to a buyer using USPS or FedEx shipping, my insurance company will pay for any damage done. I'm not sure that this is true in reverse.

Why didn't I take the $1,200 offer? It's quite simple - I believe that the book is worth more than that.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Math Teacher

[William-James88]

3 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

This may be true, but I read this board every day, and I can't remember the thread where this was debated. I'm sure you'll be able to prove me wrong. Also, if I send it to be graded, I would have to pay $15 - $20 to ship it there, $100 to have it graded, and $15 - $20 to have it shipped back. Not only is there a cost involved, the book will be handled by USPS once and FedEx once. Perhaps you should view my thread about damaged boxes. Perhaps that will help you understand why I am not really interested in sending this book to CGC. If I send the book to CGC or to a buyer using USPS or FedEx shipping, my insurance company will pay for any damage done. I'm not sure that this is true in reverse.

Why didn't I take the $1,200 offer? It's quite simple - I believe that the book is worth more than that.

You just proved why you arent getting higher offers. You want what CGC books are getting without selling a CGC book. When someone thinks of purchasing this book, they look at what CGC books are selling for and deduct from the potential worth all costs that it would cost to get there plus the odds that it comes back in a lower grade and then come up with a price. So it can never be the same. If you don't want to incur the costs and risks of turning this into a cgc book, then you'd have to sell at a discount. 

You can believe your book is worth more, but it's only worth what someone is willing to buy it for. If you need the money take the offer. If you don't need the money, then let it go. But I wouldn't question why you arent getting higher offers, we have now all given you all the right reasons as to why. 

You can also simply put it up on auction and get what it goes for, then you'll get it for it's real market value. I think that would be your best bet if you need the money and want it for what it's truly worth.

[the blob]

36 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

First, why would you assume that it is the same seller? I have purchased books at auctions from ComicLink, and I don't believe that the seller's identity was part of the equation. Can you please indicate an auction site (other than Ebay) that posts the seller's identity? I just looked at Heritage, and this information is nowhere to be found. In fact, why would this be done at all? How does revealing the seller's identity have anything to do with purchasing a book? IMO, revealing the seller's identity would lead to nothing but trouble.

Secondly, when a ComicLink auction takes places, all the books available in the auction are posted pretty much at the same time (yes, the times vary by some amount, but it is not a large amount). If the seller puts a book up for auction on ComicLink, they have no control about when it will be listed.

I wasn't aware it was a clink auction from the screenshot (which had no link). Well, in a sense it was the same seller. I guess clink just lists them as they get them, but man oh man I would be ticked off if my item ended within 20 seconds of the same item

 

[Math Teacher]

OK. I did some quick research.

I found a Fantastic Four #46 CBCS 6.0 that sold for $180.00 on 01/31/2021.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fantastic-Four-46-6-0-CBCS-not-CGC-1966-Inhumans/254850849426?hash=item3b564b5a92:g:ejQAAOSwkydgC5Gy

I then found six copies of FF #46 in CGC 6.0 that sold for $102.50 on 12/19/2020, $143.50 on 01/04/2021, $176.19 on 01/24/2021, $199.99 on 12/12/2020, $209.99 on 01/11/20211, and $230.00 on 02/05/2021. So, if we want to use comparable times, we would look at the CBCS book from 01/31/2021 and the CGC book from 01/24/2021. Please notice that the CBCS 6.0 book sold for a higher price than the CGC 6.0 book. In fact, there was never a time where the CBCS book sold for 25% less than the comparable CGC book.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=fantastic+four+cgc+6.0+46&_sacat=63&LH_TitleDesc=0&_fsrp=1&_sop=16&_osacat=63&_odkw=fantastic+four+cgc+6.0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1

So, can we say, "Usually, a CGCS book sells for less than a comparable CGC book." Yes, I would agree. However, when someone states that this always happens, that's incorrect. Naysayers will say that I only found one example, which is true. I did it as fast as I could, as my wife has been repeatedly asking me to come up for dinner. If I was willing to take more time, I am sure that I could find additional examples.

So, the general consensus here is that I should be willing to sell my CBCS for 25% less than a comparable CGC book, because that's what always happens. If a CBCS FF #46 6.0 can sell for more than a CGC FF #46 6.0, and a CBCS FF #46 CBCS can sell for less than a 25% discount compared to a comparable CGC book, who's to say that a Batman #232 CBCS 9.4 can't do the same compared to a Batman #232 CGC 9.4?

Also, many of you are missing one of my points. Yes, I am concerned about the price, but I am also concerned about getting only one offer. Most people seem to be glossing over this question.

 

[Math Teacher]

17 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

You can believe your book is worth more, but it's only worth what someone is willing to buy it for. If you need the money take the offer. If you don't need the money, then let it go. But I wouldn't question why you arent getting higher offers, we have now all given you all the right reasons as to why.

OK, we are just have to agree to disagree about this point. But could you please address my other question? Why is it that I am only getting one offer for this book? Isn't it considered to be a Bronze Age key?

[the blob]

1 hour ago, Math Teacher said:

I bought my Batman #232 sometime in May, 2020. I'm sorry, but I can't be more specific than that.

Here are the Batman #232 sales for 2020:

02/28/2020 - $1,200
03/07/2020 - $1,440
05/08/2020 - $968
07/08/2020 - $1,600
08/26/2020 - $1,650
09/18/2020 - $1,650
12/10/2020 - $1,640

I have no doubt that I bought it in May, as I had seen that the price had dropped considerably. Also, the seller was highly motivated, as he needed money to fund a grail purchase.

I have recently tried to sell this on Instagram using elite_comics 11 service. The highest offer that I have gotten was $1,200. It is true that CBCS books sell for less than CGC books. However, I would find it hard to believe that this discount is normally 25% lower. That seems to be a lot, in my opinion.

Several people claim that the grades a CGC book receives are always lower than the grade of a CBCS book. I believe, just in this thread, that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show that is not true.

My original intent of this post was that a 9.4 copy, even if it is from CBCS, should be a book that any Batman collector would want to have in his collection. There are plenty of people who fill their collections with only high-grade books. It seems to me that this book should generate more interest than one offer of $1,200. I am concerned about the amount of money I was offered, yes, but I am more concerned about the fact that I have only gotten one offer. That is why I poised the question, "Has interest in Batman #232 dropped?"

I am not so sure anybody claimed this. The market seems to believe that a chunk of the time their 9.4 might be a 9.2 or worse, hence your lower prices. As this is a 25-35% difference n price on any given day, this is substantial. Not always, but sometimes. When CGC was offering a discount if you sent voldy/pg&&x slabs in we saw a wide variety of results. with that said, i don't think people were sending bad looking obvious overgrades in to get their 9.2s come back as 8.0s, so there is some self selection going on. I think they sent in good looking books that they thought CGC would be kind to and they often were. 

[William-James88]

9 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

OK, we are just have to agree to disagree about this point. But could you please address my other question? Why is it that I am only getting one offer for this book? Isn't it considered to be a Bronze Age key?

It is. And I myself am looking for one but I didn't see your post so I didn't make an offer. 

[William-James88]

15 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

OK. I did some quick research.

I found a Fantastic Four #46 CBCS 6.0 that sold for $180.00 on 01/31/2021.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fantastic-Four-46-6-0-CBCS-not-CGC-1966-Inhumans/254850849426?hash=item3b564b5a92:g:ejQAAOSwkydgC5Gy

I then found six copies of FF #46 in CGC 6.0 that sold for $102.50 on 12/19/2020, $143.50 on 01/04/2021, $176.19 on 01/24/2021, $199.99 on 12/12/2020, $209.99 on 01/11/20211, and $230.00 on 02/05/2021. So, if we want to use comparable times, we would look at the CBCS book from 01/31/2021 and the CGC book from 01/24/2021. Please notice that the CBCS 6.0 book sold for a higher price than the CGC 6.0 book. In fact, there was never a time where the CBCS book sold for 25% less than the comparable CGC book.

 

 

Why are you comparing midgrade books, isn't this about 9.4s? If you want to make a point, have your examples be as close to yours as possible.

And as I said, if you want attention on your book and market price, just put it up for auction. Nothing discussed here will be worthwhile beyond that, I promise you that.

[Math Teacher]

1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

1 hour ago, Math Teacher said:

However, I would find it hard to believe that this discount is normally 25% lower. That seems to be a lot, in my opinion.

 

That is literally the exact discount people have quoted in previous discussions on the very same topic.

 

18 minutes ago, the blob said:

I am not so sure anybody claimed this. The market seems to believe that a chunk of the time their 9.4 might be a 9.2 or worse, hence your lower prices. As this is a 25-35% difference n price on any given day, this is substantial. Not always, but sometimes. When CGC was offering a discount if you sent voldy/pg&&x slabs in we saw a wide variety of results. with that said, i don't think people were sending bad looking obvious overgrades in to get their 9.2s come back as 8.0s, so there is some self selection going on. I think they sent in good looking books that they thought CGC would be kind to and they often were. 

William, if you read your post at the top of this page, you yourself claimed this.

[Math Teacher]

4 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Why are you comparing midgrade books, isn't this about 9.4s? If you want to make a point, have your examples be as close to yours as possible.

9.4s don't come up for sale as often as 6.0. I will be glad to research further for a very high grade.

[William-James88]

11 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

9.4s don't come up for sale as often as 6.0. I will be glad to research further for a very high grade.

let us know what you find

[William-James88]

I was curious to see if the 20-25% standard was indeed there in high grades so I picked a book with lots of sales on e-bay, Amazing Spider-man 361. And YIKES, you can see the difference. Granted, it's one example taking place right now. What I found most telling though was how the "verified" sig from CBCS sold for the least. You get a premium of 20-100% for CGC over CBCS. And yeah, you can ignore the newstand price, it's not a fair comparison.

All CGC in Canadian prices

All CBCS in Canadian prices

[Math Teacher]

I certainly can't argue with your examples.

[Randall Ries]

5 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Always?

Same book given the same grade by CGC and CBCS, sold at the same time for the same price.

Thanks for the info, Tedious Man. Is your super power semantics?

[William-James88]

29 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Thanks for the info, Tedious Man. Is your super power semantics?

Are you a Sith Lord? I hear they only deal in absolutes.

[Math Teacher]

I did some research on another popular book, ASM #300. I looked at CGC 9.0 and CBCS 9.0.

ASM #300 CGC 9.0 - $700.00 - 02/04/2021 - Best Offer
ASM #300 CGC 9.0 - $660.00 - 02/01/2021 - Best Offer
ASM #300 CGC 9.0 - $700.00 - 01/28/2021 - Best Offer
ASM #300 CGC 9.0 - $719.99 - 01/26/2021
ASM #300 CGC 9.0 - $650.00 - 01/17/2021 - Best Offer

Average = $686.00

ASM #300 CBCS 9.0 - $674.99 - 01/16/2021
ASM #300 CBCS 9.0 - $650.00 - 01/17/2021 - Best Offer
ASM #300 CBCS 9.0 - $651.30 - 01/15/2021
ASM #300 CBCS 9.0 - $675.00 - 01/13/2021 - Best Offer
ASM #300 CBCS 9.0 - $565.00 - 12/15/2020
Average = $643.00

($686 - $643)/ $686 = 6.3%. So, based on this evidence, the CBCS book is 6.3% lower than the comparable CGC book. That is a far cry from 25%.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Math Teacher

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, Math Teacher said:

This may be true, but I read this board every day, and I can't remember the thread where this was debated. I'm sure you'll be able to prove me wrong. Also, if I send it to be graded, I would have to pay $15 - $20 to ship it there, $100 to have it graded, and $15 - $20 to have it shipped back. Not only is there a cost involved, the book will be handled by USPS once and FedEx once. Perhaps you should view my thread about damaged boxes. Perhaps that will help you understand why I am not really interested in sending this book to CGC. If I send the book to CGC or to a buyer using USPS or FedEx shipping, my insurance company will pay for any damage done. I'm not sure that this is true in reverse.

Why didn't I take the $1,200 offer? It's quite simple - I believe that the book is worth more than that.

That's right. It IS worth more than that. It's actually a prejudice against a grading company that in the beginning had dubious grading that people feel like they can lowball owners and get a deal. Same deal with CGC. Seems like the implication is "buy old label CGC because the grading was screwy back then!" Psshhh. That's it. That's all. I still haven't seen a picture of it. You could crop out the horrifying label so no one gets the vapors and we could see the book and make a reasonable judgment that it IS a 9.4. I wouldn't sell the book for less than what you know it's worth. Or much less. Not 25% less. No. I'm not taking a hit just because it's in a holder you don't like.

It's a Bat 232 9.4. CGC is NOT the last word in grading. The book has NOT fallen out of favor. The grading company has never been IN favor with CGC fanatics and so everyone expects a deep discount. Members in this thread admit they go looking for CBCS books to get "deals". They aren't too proud to buy the books. Looking for a nice book at a discount. Their piety is out the window at point of sale. Not cool. That to me is market manipulation. I imagine it's a great looking book and who knows? Maybe it looks NICER than a 9.4. Any serious buyer in the market can see through the holder and determine if it's if it's a 9.4 or not. If a CGC graded 9.6 looks like an 8.5? I'm not buying it. CGC, PGX or CBCS. YOU bought YOURS because you looked into the slab and agreed it was a 9.4, right?

Don't give it away. You bought the book not the label. What we are all encouraged to do. It's a Bat 232. It's value is between $1500-$1700 depending on page quality. I bought one in 2013 for $900 signed by Adams and Giordano. Sold it in 2017 for $1400. The reason it sold was because it was a nice book and signed by 2 artists. Someone tried to lowball me as well. And it was in a CGC holder. Offered $800. Nope. I want $1400. 3 months later he came back and threw another hunny on it. No. $1400. Came back again. THIS time Comiclink asked if they could give him my email. Sure! He offered $1,000. NO! Fourteen Hundred, please! He finally went for it. It was worth it. A really nice book. A 9.4. Not giving it away. I have to pay full price for what I want.