Pulp grading question. 0

[rjpb]

I'm generally comfortable grading pulps, similarly to how I would grade comics and informed by grades I've seen books given by pulp dealers and the Bookery guide standards, and am aware that with overhangs prone to tearing and chipping, that these defects may not be dealt with quite as harshly as similar flaws are treated in comic books. 

There are a couple of things I'm not quite comfortable assessing though. One is the impact of spine fading, not uncommon with pulps, especially on an otherwise Fine or better book with a heavily faded but fully intact spine. 

The second is trimmed overhangs, again not uncommon. Are trimmed books typically "qualified" as appearing to be a certain grade if not for the trim, or is the trimming typically factored in, with a maximum grade allowed for? I recently purchased from a reputable pulp dealer, and they had given a G/VG grade to a pulp that  otherwise appeared at least FN if not for the trimmed overhang. This seemed logical (trimming still disclosed of course), but I don't know if this is standard practice. 

 

Any insight into these questions or anything else that should be considered when grading pulps is welcome.

 

[glxc]

Hey RJP,

Obviously Bookery would be the technical and professional man with great insight on your questions. For me as just a long time collector of comics and ephemera , pulps , anything I like...A bright unfaded spine is a huge plus to me. A pulp with original overhang intact even with requisite chipping is a plus to me also as I believe it to be in its original state. Many desirable pulps as you know have overhang trimmed. Not as egregious it seems  as forms of resto on comics. Pulp grading hasn't been under a microscope for many reasons like the comic hobby.

I can't say as far as g/vg/ fine how the effects you describe ACTUALLY affect grade criteria.

 

[Bookery]

Compiling books on pulp data doesn't really make me an expert on grading any more than any other long-term pulp dealer... in the end it's all still an opinion.  But by my standards, and that's what I've listed in the guide, I wouldn't grade a trimmed pulp any higher than "vg" (4.0), and that's assuming it's a clean trim, and the pulp is otherwise very sharp.  More often, they would probably get a 3.0 from me.  Likewise, a strongly faded spine on an otherwise fine or better pulp would probably get a 4.0 from me, though that gets into that gray area of overall "attractiveness".  I try to be a strict grader, and for books fine (6.0) and above, we're generally talking unusually nice copies, far better than would normally be found for most pulp runs.

[rjpb]

On 2/22/2021 at 6:58 AM, Bookery said:

Compiling books on pulp data doesn't really make me an expert on grading any more than any other long-term pulp dealer... in the end it's all still an opinion.  But by my standards, and that's what I've listed in the guide, I wouldn't grade a trimmed pulp any higher than "vg" (4.0), and that's assuming it's a clean trim, and the pulp is otherwise very sharp.  More often, they would probably get a 3.0 from me.  Likewise, a strongly faded spine on an otherwise fine or better pulp would probably get a 4.0 from me, though that gets into that gray area of overall "attractiveness".  I try to be a strict grader, and for books fine (6.0) and above, we're generally talking unusually nice copies, far better than would normally be found for most pulp runs.

Thanks, just the sort of informed opinion I was looking for. I've noticed the common designation of "Near Fine" used by some pulp sellers for fairly decent copies they seem reluctant to give the special weight of a FN grade to, which I take to mean roughly the same thing as VG/F or FN- in comic parlance. 

[Bookery]

16 hours ago, rjpb said:

Thanks, just the sort of informed opinion I was looking for. I've noticed the common designation of "Near Fine" used by some pulp sellers for fairly decent copies they seem reluctant to give the special weight of a FN grade to, which I take to mean roughly the same thing as VG/F or FN- in comic parlance. 

You will also need to know where each dealer is coming from.  Some still use the rare books nomenclature, where "fine" actually means "near mint' or "vf-nm" (not too useful for pulps).  I adopted the comic book approach, as it seems most collectibles today are using a 10-point scale, and I think there are now more folks more comfortable with that than the old used/rare book system.  "VG" (4.0) is probably the standard "collector grade" many seek in pulps.  A 6.0 is a nice addition to any run, and an 8.0 is generally the top grade one is likely to find for true pulps (certain magazine-format "pulps" and digests may be more common in this higher grade, however).  I've only owned 3 or 4 pulps that I've graded a 9.0.

[storypapers]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:30 AM, Bookery said:

You will also need to know where each dealer is coming from.  Some still use the rare books nomenclature, where "fine" actually means "near mint' or "vf-nm" (not too useful for pulps).  I adopted the comic book approach, as it seems most collectibles today are using a 10-point scale, and I think there are now more folks more comfortable with that than the old used/rare book system.  "VG" (4.0) is probably the standard "collector grade" many seek in pulps.  A 6.0 is a nice addition to any run, and an 8.0 is generally the top grade one is likely to find for true pulps (certain magazine-format "pulps" and digests may be more common in this higher grade, however).  I've only owned 3 or 4 pulps that I've graded a 9.0.

Hi Tim

You've certainly come a long way....now the expert on pulps!    I remember when you bought my complete table at Pulp Con eons ago!  LOL...
Congrats on working with Heritage on a new upgrade guide!   
I think given the prices of recent you will soon have to upgrade the prices for most!!!   LOL
I am looking for a buyer for my Top Notch and full set of Wide Awake Magazine...all in 8.0 condition or better...REALLY!  However your GUIDE does not help.....as these are impossible to find and even more so in newstand condition..yet your top end condition is no more than $200..... so I may look to have these Graded eventually and hope to get 4-5 times that!   
Anyway....hope you are doing well...I sure miss the G.O.D when I use to go to Dayton each year...  
I think you have my email...do say hello one of these days...All Best...Joe Rainone... 

[Bookery]

2 hours ago, storypapers said:

I think given the prices of recent you will soon have to upgrade the prices for most!!!   LOL
 

No need for a new guide.  I'm thinking of just mailing out, upon request, a label you can afix into the forward that states "kindly multiply prices by 3".

 

Just kidding.

 

 

Sort of.

[storypapers]

Crazy how its finally taking off..and nothing has even been graded yet!!! I sold my Tarzan last year...seems a bit premature LOL 

[Bookery]

17 hours ago, storypapers said:

Crazy how its finally taking off..and nothing has even been graded yet!!! I sold my Tarzan last year...seems a bit premature LOL 

It's hard to say if it's only because pulps are finally being "discovered" (though they are), or it it's more part of the overall "irrational exuberance" for nearly all collectibles at the moment.  Prices in the past 12 months have skyrocketed for comics, baseball cards, coins, non-sports cards, pulps, and probably many more areas beyond my knowledge.  The best analysis I've heard is that much of this is actually, at least partially, Covid-related.  While many are out of work, particularly lower-paying restaurant jobs, etc., those who are unaffected job-wise have more money than ever.  It didn't initially occur to me because I rarely went to movies, and only dined out occasionally.  But then I have customers who went to the movies every week, 52 weeks a year, dined out at sit-down restaurants 2 or 3 times a week, attended numerous concerts and sports events throughout the year.  All that slammed to a stop, and even after things began opening up in some areas, old habit patterns had been broken.  This literally meant thousands of dollars in extra cash now sitting in their bank accounts, coupled with the boredom of losing old entertainment venues.  Voila!  Folks began seeking out ways to spend that extra cash as well as discover new entertainments... and collecting satisfied both.

In the past several years comic collecting has gravitated more and more to cover art emphasis, and here's where the "discovery" of pulps come into play.  Here's hundreds, if not thousands, of issues with incredible illustrations available (until recently) for a fraction of the price of an analogous comic.  In fact, pulp covers tend to be more dynamic, exploitative, graphic, and eye-catching than most comic art of the respective eras.

The only areas I deal in which haven't seen a price explosion (yet) are movie posters and paperbacks.  But vintage paperbacks may be on their way... they haven't exploded, per se, but are inching up in both price and customer inquiries, and there is a massive quantity of material with a wide range of artwork and history to be explored.  Movie posters have actually declined in value over the past 10 years or so as new generations have no idea who the old stars are.  But... that whole art thing may come back into play here as well.  Many posters, particularly horror, sf, noir and exploitation, have that same dynamic pop-culture artwork that's driving demand in other areas.  I think smaller easier-to-store formats such as lobby cards, particularly painted title cards, etc., may make a comeback in demand, regardless of whether the actual stars resonate with collectors or not.

[FoggyNelson]

1 hour ago, Bookery said:

It's hard to say if it's only because pulps are finally being "discovered" (though they are), or it it's more part of the overall "irrational exuberance" for nearly all collectibles at the moment.  Prices in the past 12 months have skyrocketed for comics, baseball cards, coins, non-sports cards, pulps, and probably many more areas beyond my knowledge.  The best analysis I've heard is that much of this is actually, at least partially, Covid-related.  While many are out of work, particularly lower-paying restaurant jobs, etc., those who are unaffected job-wise have more money than ever.  It didn't initially occur to me because I rarely went to movies, and only dined out occasionally.  But then I have customers who went to the movies every week, 52 weeks a year, dined out at sit-down restaurants 2 or 3 times a week, attended numerous concerts and sports events throughout the year.  All that slammed to a stop, and even after things began opening up in some areas, old habit patterns had been broken.  This literally meant thousands of dollars in extra cash now sitting in their bank accounts, coupled with the boredom of losing old entertainment venues.  Voila!  Folks began seeking out ways to spend that extra cash as well as discover new entertainments... and collecting satisfied both.

In the past several years comic collecting has gravitated more and more to cover art emphasis, and here's where the "discovery" of pulps come into play.  Here's hundreds, if not thousands, of issues with incredible illustrations available (until recently) for a fraction of the price of an analogous comic.  In fact, pulp covers tend to be more dynamic, exploitative, graphic, and eye-catching than most comic art of the respective eras.

The only areas I deal in which haven't seen a price explosion (yet) are movie posters and paperbacks.  But vintage paperbacks may be on their way... they haven't exploded, per se, but are inching up in both price and customer inquiries, and there is a massive quantity of material with a wide range of artwork and history to be explored.  Movie posters have actually declined in value over the past 10 years or so as new generations have no idea who the old stars are.  But... that whole art thing may come back into play here as well.  Many posters, particularly horror, sf, noir and exploitation, have that same dynamic pop-culture artwork that's driving demand in other areas.  I think smaller easier-to-store formats such as lobby cards, particularly painted title cards, etc., may make a comeback in demand, regardless of whether the actual stars resonate with collectors or not.

Excellent post 👍‼️

[jimjum12]

7 hours ago, Bookery said:

have customers who went to the movies every week, 52 weeks a year, dined out at sit-down restaurants 2 or 3 times a week, attended numerous concerts and sports events throughout the year.  All that slammed to a stop, and even after things began opening up in some areas, old habit patterns had been broken.  This literally meant thousands of dollars in extra cash now sitting in their bank accounts, coupled with the boredom of losing old entertainment venues.  Voila!  Folks began seeking out ways to spend that extra cash as well as discover new entertainments... and collecting satisfied both.

... plus the realization that collecting is both fun AND leaves them with something there when they wake up. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)