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Dynamic Forces signed comics...can I submit?
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18 posts in this topic

On 2/27/2021 at 10:41 AM, Brian Wobbeking said:

I have a couple of Dynamic Forces signed comics with their certificate of authenticity.  Can I submit them for Signature Series grading?

 

CGC has to witness the book being signed to get a yellow label, they will not accept COAs. You can submit this and get a green "qualified" label where the book is graded as if the signature wasn't there, or you can get a blue label and the signature would be considered damage to the book.

Edited by Antyreal
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30 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

You can submit to CBCS for signature verification and yellow label that’s only option one that CGC needs to get on board with imo. Makes no sense they don’t offer this to their loyal customers . Me being one of them . 

Makes perfect sense to me.  COA's are just sheets of paper and can be reproduced.  Or books can be swapped out for fakes.  A chain of custody is the only sure fire way to guarantee that the signature you have on hand is authentic.  Barring unethical witnesses or human error when it comes to grading in Sarasota, there's not much room to dispute the CGC yellow labels.  Frankly, I'd rather keep it that way than introduce doubt by allowing COA's.

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3 hours ago, Subby1938 said:

Being I experts . I agree COAs are useless but huge auction houses have pros to verify that so what’s CGGs  issue ? They have the money offer the service 

Pro's can be duped and manipulated.  If you don't believe me, go watch Sour Grapes.

Is CGC's system foolproof?  No.  But it's about as close to it as you can get currently.

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Many folks wonder why Cgc doesn’t offer sig verification or authentication.  I’d say try to get in their mindset and play a bit of devils advocate, the reasons flow pretty fast and easy.

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10 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

Pro's can be duped and manipulated.  If you don't believe me, go watch Sour Grapes.

Is CGC's system foolproof?  No.  But it's about as close to it as you can get currently.

Dude they can’t even get their labels right lol At least we get colourful new graphics on labels now .....

Edited by Subby1938
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38 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

Dude they can’t even get their labels right lol At least we get colourful new graphics on labels now .....

Batman 234 is the "First Silver Age Appearance Of Two-Face". How long has THAT mistake been staring them in the face? LOL!

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Comic grading may be more subjective than we wish it was, but the fundamental idea holds water. "How is this comic's condition not the way it was supposed to be?"

Signature verification... isn't like that. Signature verification experts present themselves as engaging in some sort of forensic science, but that's rarely if ever the case. The big names in the industry use known-good examples of signatures as "exemplars" and more or less try to make sure submitted signatures are plausible equivalents. And they still get played, as sports memorabilia scandal after sports memorabilia scandal indicates. "Stare and compare" with an exemplar only works if you 1) have a good exemplar, 2) are dealing with a person whose signature did not vary substantively over time -- so, you know, not Stan Lee, and 3) don't have really skilled forgers in the field.

And that's the best signature verification options. I don't think certain other comic grading companies necessarily keep a deep library of authentic signatures for comparison. I don't know, maybe they do. But regardless, witnessed signatures can be known to be authentic because they have an established chain of custody. Unwitnessed signatures can never be authenticated beyond just someone's best guess, no matter what the authentication services market. CGC doesn't offer after-the-fact signature authentication because there's not really such a thing, not to the level of certainty that it would really require.

So, for the OP, as noted, you can send in a DF signed comic. It will come back with a green label. I don't think there's much collector interest in most of those DF signature issues when the book is just a 100% normal production copy that DF had signed and then packaged in a DF sleeve. But, to the extent that I'm wrong about that, you may be better off keeping it unslabbed and in the original, sticker-sealed DF sleeve with COA. I feel that's likely to be more marketable than a random book in a green label. YMMV.

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15 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

Well, you're not wrong there.  QC has been abysmal of late.

Yeah. Abysmal with other people's valuables. A car detailer is allowed to "miss a spot". A book grader can sink a books value just by tearing a page or cover. Then what? Oh so sorry? No. Graders should be hired on as people who LOVE the things, not just some deefus following a grading sheet. If you can't recite the origin of say Robin with a good deal of accuracy then buh-bye. If you can't describe the cover of Hulk 1, Bat 1, Superman 1, Sensation Comics 1, Captain America Comics 1, Detective 27, AF 15, Spiderman 1, FF 1, then hit the bricks, brother/sister. You aren't even entry level material.

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17 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Yeah. Abysmal with other people's valuables. A car detailer is allowed to "miss a spot". A book grader can sink a books value just by tearing a page or cover. Then what? Oh so sorry? No. Graders should be hired on as people who LOVE the things, not just some deefus following a grading sheet. If you can't recite the origin of say Robin with a good deal of accuracy then buh-bye. If you can't describe the cover of Hulk 1, Bat 1, Superman 1, Sensation Comics 1, Captain America Comics 1, Detective 27, AF 15, Spiderman 1, FF 1, then hit the bricks, brother/sister. You aren't even entry level material.

It's frightening when people post books that are clearly mislabeled.  I mean like Wonder Woman book clearly given a Superman label.  Like what exactly is going through QC's mind in those cases.

EDIT: I currently have a book with QC so perhaps I should be nice in case they stumble upon this thread.  If so, "you're doing the lords work...keep up the good work."

Edited by ExNihilo
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8 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

It's frightening when people post books that are clearly mislabeled.  I mean like Wonder Woman book clearly given a Superman label.  Like what exactly is going through QC's mind in those cases.

EDIT: I currently have a book with QC so perhaps I should be nice in case they stumble upon this thread.  If so, "you're doing the lords work...keep up the good work."

Nice? If by "nice" you mean civil lawsuit for wrecking my book then sure. Nice! You read the Avengers #4 thread here, right? If it were me, I wouldn't let them just walk away or offer some useless pressing to fix the rips and tears in my Avengers #4. Not if I had a clear trail of documentation like the OP does. No. They would be made an example of. A fifty dollar commonplace book MIGHT be one thing. A $7k classic? No way.

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Sorry for the necro, but searching through the forum, this seems the best spot to ask.

I understand already signed stuff will get a green or blue damage labelled, but I have a little different scenario, and I was just curious.

Specifically, I have a book signed by person A (not CGC but DF) and I send it in to be signed by person B (at a CGC signing), what type of label would it get?

 

Thanks very much.

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On 2/5/2022 at 3:51 PM, maltonfolk said:

Sorry for the necro, but searching through the forum, this seems the best spot to ask.

I understand already signed stuff will get a green or blue damage labelled, but I have a little different scenario, and I was just curious.

Specifically, I have a book signed by person A (not CGC but DF) and I send it in to be signed by person B (at a CGC signing), what type of label would it get?

 

Thanks very much.

One of two things, either you can get a half green/half gold label where the original sig doesn’t effect the grade, or a gold label with the original signature as a defect against the grade of the book.

C0C38CC0-98D6-4352-B3C5-F6B0F5A9CAC0.thumb.jpeg.8f1517d4aef58ec847a7910a821a27a1.jpeg

 

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I made the mistake of sending in a few DF books signed by "Jack Kirby" to add Stan Lee though CGC SS. I got the yellow label and they came back as 8.5s due to the previous signature (even though the books were structurally 9.4ish).

The real problem though is, as was revealed years later, the DF "Jack Kirbys" were not signed by Jack Kirby in the opinion of experts. The authentication companies will not pass these DF Kirby sigs.   :tonofbricks:

I wasted several Stan CGC SS on these damn DF books. 

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