New IRS reporting for 2021? 8 8

[apollobuzz]

10 hours ago, shadroch said:

The law on the taxes has not changed. The difference is that before the IRS expected us to self-report. You can see how well that worked out. 

In all likelihood, this will cost you more in time spent keeping records than it will in dollars.  Just because ebay or paypal tells the IRS you sold $20,000 worth of stuff doesn't mean you owe taxes on that amount.  Suppose you practice my old model- lose money on every sale but make it up with volume.  We used to have hobbies. Now we have a business. Take advantage of it. 

[apollobuzz]

7 hours ago, jcjames said:

...but you can't win for losing.

 

Shad wasn't serious with the "lose money on every sale but make it up with volume" line.  It is recognized by most as an obvious joke.  

[BigLeagueCHEW]

8 minutes ago, Galen130 said:

Good point.  I don’t have a website because it would be too much like work. 

[cgcmod8]

There have been posts removed and complaints from warnings issued.  If things don't change, I will have to stop this topic.  Here's a post from Arch that qualifies a political post.  This leaves a tiny percentage of things that can be discussed here.

Most of this has been posted before, but I am consolidating two posts into a single FAQ for ease of reference for anyone who needs it, and adding a few clarifications:

Dena put it quite eloquently originally: "We absolutely respect everyone's right to express their opinions on political topics however, we encourage you to explore those topics on more appropriate message boards where politics are the focus. The Certified Collectibles Group is first and foremost a group of independent companies committed to providing grading services. It is not our business to act as mediators on political topics amongst our customers."

As moderators, here is what happens if you pick and choose which overtly political posts to remove based on a judgement about which topics have become contentious - whoever didn't want the post removed accuses you of political leanings to the other side.

It's not worth the time or the misunderstandings. Thus, no politics.

Topics that have a scientific basis for debate are harder to moderate if legislators ALSO care about them. They slip in and out of political over tones or implications and get messy. But if you out right call out something political, that's pretty easy.

The standard remains: No Politics.

Why do some things that seem borderline political get removed and not others?

There are two boundaries to track to:

1. What is allowed and isn't allowed according to the rules
2. What gets notified to moderators or noticed by a moderator and removed

2 doesn't always catch everything that fails 1. That doesn't mean the rules have changed, it means we have tons of post volume and moderators don't read everything unless there is a notification.

DEFINITELY POLITICAL:

Discussions that either focus on or devolve into debates about:

1. Political parties
2. Broad political labels (liberal, conservative, etc.)
3. Election outcomes / forecasts
4. Performance of specific politicians by name
5. Debates about proper legislation to address a topic

MORE DIFFICULT TOPICS:

There is a class of topics that start based on apolitical information, but have a very high chance of morphing from the initial discussion into the definitely political class. These are extra difficult because they are judgement calls about whether we should allow them when they first go up, and then it's a question when/if they will cross a line.

1. Recent news events - i.e. a school shooting is news at first, and might quickly move into "what the government should do about X"
2. Scientific debates that become charged with the inevitable follow on - "should there be laws about this?" "Is the science biased by political funding / agendas?"

Strictly speaking, these topics CAN be discussed without politics. However, generally, they aren't. This makes it difficult to moderate because they often slip in and out of allowed contexts.

How is the decision made to remove something borderline?

It is more likely to get left up if:

1. No one hits the notify button
2. It's a new topic that is borderline, but we haven't seen whether it will degrade to political
3. The person who posts it does NOT already have a past history of baiting / drawing conversations into political territory.

As you can guess, if you shift any of those factors to the opposite side, then the topic is more likely to get removed.

Wait, what if I think that's not fair? What is the process to object?

Very little leeway or energy will be spent on determining this. The Water Cooler's entire existence has at times been debated, since it is not directly a contributor to the purpose of these boards. It DOES add value as a contribution to people feeling a sense of community and involvement AROUND the idea of talking about collectibles, but we could have a pretty good community even without that feature.

On top of that, trying to decide which threads that are borderline stay because the discussion didn't turn overtly political versus which ones did become overtly political just invites the membership to speculate that there is a political bias in moderation action - which there is not.

Bottom line - if it is political or adjacent to politics and someone notifies it as such, it's going to go away.

e.g. A thread about economic theory is inherently tied to systems of government and issues of private property. It's pretty much not going to survive if it's noticed.

[1Cool]

The $20k limit did seems pretty crazy in terms of a threshold.  $600 seems a tad small but I guess if it's just a key stroke for E-Bay then it doesn't matter what the threshold is.  I've been paying taxes on e-bay sales for years so it is the same of same to me.  If people want to stop selling on e-bay -  I'm all for it since I'll be happy to pick up the slack.

[jcjames]

3 hours ago, jharvey said:

It's actually a "maximum" rate of 28%. If you are in a 12% tax bracket, then you pay 12% tax. If you are in a 37% tax bracket, then you pay the maximum of 28%. 

That's not what the info from the link stated:

"All the same, the 28% rate is advantageous for those in the higher tax brackets compared to taxes on ordinary income – although, by the same measure, those in brackets below 28% will take an extra hit."

[manetteska]

20 hours ago, shadroch said:

Anything to evade paying your fair share of taxes. How patriotic. 

 

11 hours ago, shadroch said:

The law on the taxes has not changed. The difference is that before the IRS expected us to self-report. You can see how well that worked out. 

In all likelihood, this will cost you more in time spent keeping records than it will in dollars.  Just because ebay or paypal tells the IRS you sold $20,000 worth of stuff doesn't mean you owe taxes on that amount.  Suppose you practice my old model- lose money on every sale but make it up with volume.  We used to have hobbies. Now we have a business. Take advantage of it. 

 

[jharvey]

25 minutes ago, jcjames said:

That's not what the info from the link stated:

"All the same, the 28% rate is advantageous for those in the higher tax brackets compared to taxes on ordinary income – although, by the same measure, those in brackets below 28% will take an extra hit."

That's because the person who wrote that doesn't know how a tax return actually works.

Here is some info from a different article that was written by someone who knows a bit more:

Quote

https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2019/nov/taxation-collectibles.html

 

The statutory tax rate on collectible capital gains (after all applicable netting) is a maximum 28% rate or the rate at which the gain would be taxed if it were ordinary income, if lower.¹⁶ When taxpayers have ordinary income, collectible gains, unrecaptured Sec. 1250 gains, and other long-term capital gains, it is important to consider the order in which ordinary income and net capital gains are applied in order to determine the rate at which the collectible gain would be taxed if it were ordinary income. Ordinary income is taxed first, followed by 25% gain, followed by 28% gain, and then the 0%/15%/20% gain.

 

[FutureFlash]

Yikes 600 dollar threshold. Well so much for the online garage sale. 10k even 5k seem a lot more reasonable thresholds. It is a lot of extra work to make somebody report the income and then go over each sale to see if they made a profit.  At 600 bucks they probably didn't make any money at all.

[Tnexus]

4 hours ago, Galen130 said:

Looks like I left feebay just in time.  Been selling here on the boards only, since last July.  It’s not like I’m paying the mortgage with my sales...I wasn’t on eBay either.  It’s more of a hobby, with less hassle and a better group of buyers...IMO. 

You do realize Paypal will also send you one right?

[jcjames]

3 hours ago, jharvey said:

That's because the person who wrote that doesn't know how a tax return actually works.

Here is some info from a different article that was written by someone who knows a bit more:

 

Thanks for the link. Very... interesting.

"First, the tax definition of collectibles is complex and can easily be misinterpreted." {emphasis mine, clearly not a "fair" law by any reasonable understanding, that we are supposed to follow.}

"The cross-reference from Sec. 1(h)(5)(A) to Sec. 408(m) increases the complexity of the collectible definition for purposes of determining the netting process and applicable tax rate for collectible gains and losses... the IRS has the authority to deem any tangible property not specifically listed in either Sec. 408(m) or Prop. Regs. Sec. 1.408-10(b) as a collectible for Sec. 408(m)(2) purposes and, thus, by reference for Sec. 1(h)(5) purposes"  {again, not at all a "fair" law by any reasonable understanding because there is no "reasonable understanding" possible.}

"...neither the Internal Revenue Code nor administrative authority provides criteria the IRS would use to determine whether tangible property that is not specifically listed in the Code or the regulations is a collectible..." {and yet we are expected to follow and obey to pay our "fair share"?? What's "fair" here?}

No layman out there actually understands what was stated in that link, nor COULD they understand it because it's OPENLY subjective and arbitrary with NO criteria provided anywhere to anyone as to what even constitutes a "collectible".

Someone read that entire link, then start talking about paying your "fair share"

ETA: removed

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by jcjames

[thunsicker]

Not sure if you are trying to get the thread locked @jcjames, but, in case you aren't, quoting Ayn Rand is a pretty good way to get it locked.

Edited March 9, 2021 by thunsicker

[jcjames]

13 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

Not sure if you are trying to get the thread locked @jcjames, but, in case you aren't, quoting Ayn Rand is a pretty good way to get it locked.

Did not know that. Thanks.

[Galen130]

1 hour ago, Tnexus said:

You do realize Paypal will also send you one right?

Yup.  Didn't get one...didn't make enough.  Lol

[grebal]

For those who might be more current on the tax regs, what's the story - can we deduct $3,000 in losses from Comic Book Trading against Ordinary Income every year?

[Dr. Love]

I'm no pro, but my understanding is if declaring as a hobby, hobby losses can only offset hobby gains. If declaring as a business, business losses can offset personal income, with no cap.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Dr. Love

[apollobuzz]

And this is why I prefer to trade comics rather than selling comics.

[shadroch]

2 minutes ago, apollobuzz said:

And this is why I prefer to trade comics rather than selling comics.

Bartered goods and services are also taxable income. I'm amazed about the lack of understanding on how taxes work.  I took one business course in college and I remember someone asking the instructor why everyone didn't start their own small business just for the tax benefits. 

[apollobuzz]

12 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Bartered goods and services are also taxable income. I'm amazed about the lack of understanding on how taxes work.  I took one business course in college and I remember someone asking the instructor why everyone didn't start their own small business just for the tax benefits. 

If I trade a $1000 comic for another $1000 comic, there is no profit to tax, correct?

[shadroch]

Before anyone complains about the IRS cracking down on these sales, you might look at the gift the current tax law gives to any qualified small business where you can deduct 20% of your total income as a pass thru expense. There are obviously some limits to it, and some professions aren't eligible but comic dealers are,