Value of UK price variant SA grails 3 3

[drmanhattanite]

Hi,

How much does the UK pence variant affect value of silver age grails, like FF1, FF5, AF15, X1, etc? 

 

Thanks

[OtherEric]

paging @Get Marwood & I

[Get Marwood & I]

Paging @cansomebodyelseanswerthepencequestionforonceplease

 

[cbalroman]

Hard to say but seems the prices have been on the rise. There was a X1 UK 2.5 sig series that sold for $7500 on eBay start of Feb. To compare it there was a universal 2.5 US version that sold mid-Jan for $7200 on eBay.   Normally I was of the mindset that UK copies go for roughly half the price of their US counterparts. But these two sales line up fairly close. 

[Frederic9494]

Think that the switch from "UK Edition" to "UK Price Variant" had an impact... and when you look at the census, mid to high grade UK copies of many early SA Marvel are scarce.

[WernerVonDoom]

40 minutes ago, Frederic9494 said:

Think that the switch from "UK Edition" to "UK Price Variant" had an impact... and when you look at the census, mid to high grade UK copies of many early SA Marvel are scarce.

I love UK/foreign versions, but "UK Price Variants", "Canadian Price Variants", "<fill in Country> Price Variants" are complete B.S .

[Frederic9494]

24 minutes ago, WernerVonDoom said:

I love UK/foreign versions, but "UK Price Variants", "Canadian Price Variants", "<fill in Country> Price Variants" are complete B.S .

Those SA Marvel comic books are price variants, not UK edition... as they were printed by Marvel in the US at the same time than their US counterparts before being shipped to the UK. 

They have nothing to do with UK magazines with Marvel reprinted stories...

[WernerVonDoom]

1 hour ago, Frederic9494 said:

Those SA Marvel comic books are price variants, not UK edition... as they were printed by Marvel in the US at the same time than their US counterparts before being shipped to the UK. 

They have nothing to do with UK magazines with Marvel reprinted stories...

So hypothetically, if a book was printed in the U.S. but the language was changed to Spanish and the price changed to pesos, it would be a "Variant", but if the same book was printed in Mexico, it's a "Mexican Edition"?  No.

Don't get me wrong, I think pence copies and other foreign books are very collectible and should be worth more than the US versions due to their rarity.  But they are not "variants".

[Frederic9494]

24 minutes ago, WernerVonDoom said:

So hypothetically, if a book was printed in the U.S. but the language was changed to Spanish and the price changed to pesos, it would be a "Variant", but if the same book was printed in Mexico, it's a "Mexican Edition"?  No.

Don't get me wrong, I think pence copies and other foreign books are very collectible and should be worth more than the US versions due to their rarity.  But they are not "variants".

Throwing the towel on this one... Foreign editions usually come from a different publishing company than the originator (ex. Panini in France, Editions Heritage for French Canada, Interpresse in Belgium, etc.) In the case of the Silver Age comic books discussed they were printed and published by Marvel, only difference being the cover price, so they are not foreign editions but price variants.

[WernerVonDoom]

9 minutes ago, Frederic9494 said:

Throwing the towel on this one... Foreign editions usually come from a different publishing company than the originator (ex. Panini in France, Editions Heritage for French Canada, Interpresse in Belgium, etc.) In the case of the Silver Age comic books discussed they were printed and published by Marvel, only difference being the cover price, so they are not foreign editions but price variants.

Has Marvel ever printed books in other languages and sent them to other countries?  If yes, those and pence copies are not variants. If they haven't, then I might be a little closer to calling pence copies variants.

[Pantodude]

1 hour ago, WernerVonDoom said:

Has Marvel ever printed books in other languages and sent them to other countries?  If yes, those and pence copies are not variants. If they haven't, then I might be a little closer to calling pence copies variants.

Hey there.  As far as I know, Marvel has never printed comic books in other languages simultaneously with the initial print run of cents-styled books.  Regardless, there is a real difference between "variants" and "editions" of an issue in the print industry, including comic books.  If the language of the entire book were changed, along with the production date, location, and materials, then that's an edition because customers would complain that the product has changed substantially.  If the production date were changed to make more copies available without substantial change, then its a reprint.  The UK price variants are Type 1A cover price variants -- the tiny area with the cover price was changed to pence on day 1, with no substantial change in the product, and no change in the date and location of printing.  That's not really surprising, is it?  UK speaks English.  Hence no substantial change = variant.  

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Pantodude

[WernerVonDoom]

51 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

Regardless, there is a real difference between "variants" and "editions" of an issue in the print industry, including comic books.  If the language of the entire book were changed, along with the production date, location, and materials, then that's an edition because customers would complain that the product has changed substantially. 

I agree with some of what you say, but this statement makes no sense.  Nowhere on any comic is it printed variant or edition, so how would a customer know to complain? These terms are arbitrary when it comes to comics.

For the first 35 years of my comic collecting career, these have not been "variants" and everything was fine. Just recently, many people have been calling them that to increase their value. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

[Pantodude]

Belated or not, the distinction is significant and thus warranted. UKPVs are unique to Marvel comics from 1960 to 1981, as I recall.  But if that’s not your cup of tea, that’s ok.  👍 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Pantodude

[Get Marwood & I]

4 hours ago, WernerVonDoom said:

I agree with some of what you say, but this statement makes no sense.  Nowhere on any comic is it printed variant or edition, so how would a customer know to complain? These terms are arbitrary when it comes to comics.

For the first 35 years of my comic collecting career, these have not been "variants" and everything was fine. Just recently, many people have been calling them that to increase their value. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

Morning Werner 

I understand where the sentiment of what you are saying comes from. Please, let me see if I can change your view.

First, have a read of my explanation here regarding differentiating the first printing UK Price Variants (as I call them) from the locally produced publications and reprints of non-US countries. It's half way down the page:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/blogs/entry/5028-john-morlars-journal-summary-page-or-how-to-tell-a-uk-price-variant-that-you-dont-love-her-anymore/

Additionally, Marvel printed copies for distribution in three other countries during its lifetime - the UK, Canada and Australia - hence the terms UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variants that are used by many and recently adopted by CGC. In each case, the copies were run at some point during the original US copy printing event. 

So this pence copy...

 

....this Canadian copy....

....and this Australian copy....

.....were all printed at the same time, in the same place, on the same printers as the original US copies prior to being shipped to their respective country destinations for distribution.

They are variants because they are a small subset of the original US print state/run and 'price variant' is the shortest description we can use without clouding the issue and having to use a whole load of additional words to 100% inform their production nature. The price difference is the salient point, hence "Price Variant".

So we have:

• US Price Variants (30/35c, $2.29/2.49)
• UK Price Variants (pence)
• Canadian Price Variants ($Can)
• Australian Price Variants ($Aus)

That's it - there are no others in respect of original US comics. No French, no German, No Filippino. 

One of the reasons I personally pushed CGC to adopt this terminology is that they were in the habit of labelling both first printing UK Price Variants and locally produced UK publications as "UK Editions". This, in my mind, further fuelled the incorrect assumption held by many still that the UK Price Variants as I call them were reprints. They are not.

This is a variant, as it was printed at the same time, in the same place as the standard US original copy:

This isn't a variant, as it was printed at a later time, in a later location, under license by a different country:

In terms of labelling, it is 'Spider-Man Comics Weekly' #130. It is not a variant of Amazing Spider-Man #96. And it is not a "UK Edition" as that implies there is a US equivalent somewhere - there isn't. The US never printed Spider-Man Comics Weekly. So it is its own thing, needing no additional clarification.

Some people like to overcomplicate things with oceans of sub-divisions. I don't. Crudely, there are books from the original print state, and there is everything else. Books from the original print state can be subdivided as variants, with the destination country and associated price being the salient factors. Everything else, wherever it was printed, is its own thing. If CGC adopted this strategy overall, with a short note indicating things like "Reprints content from the US publication Amazing Spider-Man #96" on non-US publications, then everything, over time, would become so much clearer I think.

Anyway, a long attempt to clarify a relatively simple premise, once the basics land in the mind.

Let me know if this changes your thinking in any way! 

[Garystar]

I don’t see why the labeling of comics priced UK/Canadian/Australian would be any different to the labeling of 30/35 “variants” - we wouldn’t label these Grand Rapids, Baltimore, San Antonio,  San Jose, Albuquerque and several small towns in Massachusetts editions so surely the same logic applies and comics where the only difference is the price are labeled UK/Canadian/Australian/30 cent variants?

[Get Marwood & I]

53 minutes ago, Garystar said:

I don’t see why the labeling of comics priced UK/Canadian/Australian would be any different to the labeling of 30/35 “variants” - we wouldn’t label these Grand Rapids, Baltimore, San Antonio,  San Jose, Albuquerque and several small towns in Massachusetts editions so surely the same logic applies and comics where the only difference is the price are labeled UK/Canadian/Australian/30 cent variants?

Hence:

• US Price Variants (30/35c, $2.29/2.49)
• UK Price Variants (pence)
• Canadian Price Variants ($Can)
• Australian Price Variants ($Aus)

[thunsicker]

20 hours ago, cbalroman said:

Normally I was of the mindset that UK copies go for roughly half the price of their US counterparts. But these two sales line up fairly close. 

I don't know if they were ever in the half price range in the last 20 years or so, but they definitely used to be at somewhere from 20%-40% off.  Now with people not having the prejudice against these variants and even having preference for them I would guess they are getting close to parity and will probably follow Canadian price variants to being more valuable.  They aren't something I'm interested in though so less expensive/more expensive doesn't really matter to me.

[WernerVonDoom]

7 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Morning Werner 

I understand where the sentiment of what you are saying comes from. Please, let me see if I can change your view.

First, have a read of my explanation here regarding differentiating the first printing UK Price Variants (as I call them) from the locally produced publications and reprints of non-US countries. It's half way down the page:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/blogs/entry/5028-john-morlars-journal-summary-page-or-how-to-tell-a-uk-price-variant-that-you-dont-love-her-anymore/

Additionally, Marvel printed copies for distribution in three other countries during its lifetime - the UK, Canada and Australia - hence the terms UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variants that are used by many and recently adopted by CGC. In each case, the copies were run at some point during the original US copy printing event. 

So this pence copy...

 

....this Canadian copy....

....and this Australian copy....

.....were all printed at the same time, in the same place, on the same printers as the original US copies prior to being shipped to their respective country destinations for distribution.

They are variants because they are a small subset of the original US print state/run and 'price variant' is the shortest description we can use without clouding the issue and having to use a whole load of additional words to 100% inform their production nature. The price difference is the salient point, hence "Price Variant".

So we have:

• US Price Variants (30/35c, $2.29/2.49)
• UK Price Variants (pence)
• Canadian Price Variants ($Can)
• Australian Price Variants ($Aus)

That's it - there are no others in respect of original US comics. No French, no German, No Filippino. 

One of the reasons I personally pushed CGC to adopt this terminology is that they were in the habit of labelling both first printing UK Price Variants and locally produced UK publications as "UK Editions". This, in my mind, further fuelled the incorrect assumption held by many still that the UK Price Variants as I call them were reprints. They are not.

This is a variant, as it was printed at the same time, in the same place as the standard US original copy:

This isn't a variant, as it was printed at a later time, in a later location, under license by a different country:

In terms of labelling, it is 'Spider-Man Comics Weekly' #130. It is not a variant of Amazing Spider-Man #96. And it is not a "UK Edition" as that implies there is a US equivalent somewhere - there isn't. The US never printed Spider-Man Comics Weekly. So it is its own thing, needing no additional clarification.

Some people like to overcomplicate things with oceans of sub-divisions. I don't. Crudely, there are books from the original print state, and there is everything else. Books from the original print state can be subdivided as variants, with the destination country and associated price being the salient factors. Everything else, wherever it was printed, is its own thing. If CGC adopted this strategy overall, with a short note indicating things like "Reprints content from the US publication Amazing Spider-Man #96" on non-US publications, then everything, over time, would become so much clearer I think.

Anyway, a long attempt to clarify a relatively simple premise, once the basics land in the mind.

Let me know if this changes your thinking in any way! 

Ok, you got me. The UK/Canadian/Australian books are variants.

[piper]

Back to the original post, I have steered away from UK pence editions much like I've stayed away from restored SA books.  I assumed that the buying pool would be smaller if I ever went to sell them.

Is that stigma still there or are collectors changing their tune now that prices have gone parabolic?

What factor would you apply to a UK variant?

[Get Marwood & I]

28 minutes ago, WernerVonDoom said:

Ok, you got me. The UK/Canadian/Australian books are variants.

1 down, 328 million to go