Spotting a fake CGC case based on inconsistency - modern books 1 1

[Big Brother]

Well, part of my point is that when things are worth thousands of dollars, they become worth counterfeiting. If you invested 5 thousand dollars in creating a fake that you turn around for 20 thousand, that's a pretty good return. But my main point is YOU CAN'T EXAMINE THE BOOK! It's sealed inside the slab.

[Artboy99]

I am sure you have a real slab.

I have a few signature series books where the sticker is on the exterior of the slab.

As to the grade of the book: I had a cgc 9.8 that had 15 spine ticks, several were significant ( over 1/4" to 1/2" long and color breaking.

My advice is if you are not happy with the book sell it and buy what you want.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Artboy99

[DougC]

Just for kicks, lets extrapolate out the hysterical logic this person is trying to convince us to believe.

There are counterfeiters who can make copies of million dollar books because there is money to be made, this despite it already being pointed out just how convoluted it would be to remanufacture a CGC case and label, hack the data base to add your serial number, and be immaculate enough to convince the major auction houses. All of this despite still hiding your personal information to receive payment.

If these counter fitters have this level of sophistication why bother with CGC in the first place. They should contact me, we can drive a couple hours to Sparta and fire up the two presses that are still on site and print out anything we want from the 80'-90's. Why bother with all the cloak and dagger when you can just print the original product?

[Big Brother]

As I wrote earlier, it doesn't have to be a million dollar book. It could be any comic worth thousands of dollars. If people can counterfeit American money, don't you think someone could counterfeit a CGC case and label? But hey, if you want to buy comic books that you can't read, go right ahead.

[Qalyar]

On 11/25/2022 at 10:14 PM, Big Brother said:

As I wrote earlier, it doesn't have to be a million dollar book. It could be any comic worth thousands of dollars. If people can counterfeit American money, don't you think someone could counterfeit a CGC case and label? But hey, if you want to buy comic books that you can't read, go right ahead.

Is it possible? Yes. Several of the coin certification companies are aware of counterfeits of their slabs. However, there's been no evidence so far of any even remotely credible counterfeit CGC slabs, so the burden of proof is really on those making doomer arguments about the likelihood of that occurring.

[Big Brother]

On 11/27/2022 at 6:20 PM, Qalyar said:

Is it possible? Yes. Several of the coin certification companies are aware of counterfeits of their slabs. However, there's been no evidence so far of any even remotely credible counterfeit CGC slabs, so the burden of proof is really on those making doomer arguments about the likelihood of that occurring.

Yes, and since there's no evidence for counterfeits, they must not exist, right? I don't claim that fakes EXIST. I'm just saying that they COULD, and how would you even know – because you can't examine the books! But I don't understand why you would want a comic book that you can't read in the first place.

[revat]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:55 AM, Big Brother said:

Yes, and since there's no evidence for counterfeits, they must not exist, right? I don't claim that fakes EXIST. I'm just saying that they COULD, and how would you even know – because you can't examine the books! But I don't understand why you would want a comic book that you can't read in the first place.

I think some people just like collecting things.  And some people who collect those things like those things in better and/or original condition.  And some people prefer to have neutral third-party experts grade those things, so they can get a better picture of the true condition.  And some of those people like to protect those collectibles, as use and exposure to the elements may degrade the condition of those collectibles.  And the people who collect those things would rather not degrade the condition of those collectibles they like.  And some of the people above collect comic books, because they like them for whatever reason.

Not everyone feels that way, but hopefully you can understand why SOME PEOPLE (certainly not all) feel that way.

[Le Chat Noir]

Might be a lucky grade, but the case looks real. Why would someone waste their effort to make a fake case for SIKTC when they could do it with a key from 30-60 years ago?

[Big Brother]

On 11/29/2022 at 11:06 AM, revat said:

I think some people just like collecting things.  And some people who collect those things like those things in better and/or original condition.  And some people prefer to have neutral third-party experts grade those things, so they can get a better picture of the true condition.  And some of those people like to protect those collectibles, as use and exposure to the elements may degrade the condition of those collectibles.  And the people who collect those things would rather not degrade the condition of those collectibles they like.  And some of the people above collect comic books, because they like them for whatever reason.

Not everyone feels that way, but hopefully you can understand why SOME PEOPLE (certainly not all) feel that way.

I've been a comic collector for more than 50 years. I like things in nice condition, although I'm willing to settle for less on some books. You say, "And some people prefer to have neutral third-party experts grade those things..." But who appointed these "neutral third-party experts"? Aren't they pretty much self-appointed? Grading is an art, not a science, but anyone can learn it. Why not learn how to grade, instead of paying someone to tell you their opinion of the condition of your item? My comic books are in bags, and in boxes. They're reasonably well-protected. And I've got news for you: comic books, like people, will not last forever no matter what you do. My question still is: why would you pay a premium for a comic book that you can't read?

[KCOComics]

Spoiler

 

On 11/30/2022 at 5:51 AM, Big Brother said:

I've been a comic collector for more than 50 years. I like things in nice condition, although I'm willing to settle for less on some books. You say, "And some people prefer to have neutral third-party experts grade those things..." But who appointed these "neutral third-party experts"? Aren't they pretty much self-appointed? Grading is an art, not a science, but anyone can learn it. Why not learn how to grade, instead of paying someone to tell you their opinion of the condition of your item? My comic books are in bags, and in boxes. They're reasonably well-protected. And I've got news for you: comic books, like people, will not last forever no matter what you do. My question still is: why would you pay a premium for a comic book that you can't read?

I don't disagree with any of this. 

In fact, I'm astonished by the weight the industry has put on 3rd party grading and prefer my comics in bags and boards. The difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 can be miniscule, yet the value swings so dramatically based on a person's opinion. 

With that said, I own dozens of graded books. I even collect high grade runs where every book is graded. 

There are really two factors at play. Collecting SA and BA books has become as much about investing as collecting. When key books are 4, 5 and 6 figures, that third party grade allows the market value to be more easily determined.  I never considered (and still don't) my collection an "investment". But the value of certain books has become impossible to ignore. 

Grading also creates a certain level of liquidity for those that have allot of money tied into comics. I don't think anyone is buying AF15 in any grade as a reader copy anymore, so having it slabbed make sense for most people, in the event you need to sell it. 

I do agree though. I enjoy flipping through my comics. I like the way they look in Myler and if they are handled properly, they are safe and secure. 

 

 

[Lothran]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:51 AM, Big Brother said:

My question still is: why would you pay a premium for a comic book that you can't read?

You can read pretty much every comic online. Some people would rather collect the comics, sealed to retain their value but go online and read the comic to stay up to date and follow the story.

However, some would rather hold what they are reading. Same thing with books. It's all a matter of preference. Neither is better than the other.

[The Lions Den]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:51 AM, Big Brother said:

My question still is: why would you pay a premium for a comic book that you can't read?

Some of the reasons I buy graded comics are because I can be reasonably sure the book is complete, the grade is in the correct range and the book has been checked for restoration.

However, I also buy ungraded books because I enjoy rolling the dice occasionally. Either way, it's still fun...and isn't that what it's all about?  

Edited November 30, 2022 by The Lions Den

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:21 AM, Lothran said:

Neither is better than the other.

Not true. You never actually own digital comics. They could be removed from your library at any instance. Physical media will always be king.

[Lothran]

On 11/30/2022 at 9:51 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Not true. You never actually own digital comics. They could be removed from your library at any instance. Physical media will always be king.

I was more referring to reading comics online when someone has collected the comic in a graded slab.

You can have the slabbed comic and still be able to read it online.

[lostboys]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:21 AM, Lothran said:

You can read pretty much every comic online. Some people would rather collect the comics, sealed to retain their value but go online and read the comic to stay up to date and follow the story.

However, some would rather hold what they are reading. Same thing with books. It's all a matter of preference. Neither is better than the other.

 

Ive never read a comic online but I do make sure that I have either a low grade - readers copy, a reprint/facsimile or a TPB for every graded book or series that I own.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/30/2022 at 9:55 AM, Lothran said:

I was more referring to reading comics online when someone has collected the comic in a graded slab.

You can have the slabbed comic and still be able to read it online.

Fair enough. A problem that I find with reading digital comics (and some collected editions) is that they 'remaster' the artwork. That process often bastardizes what I want to see.

[Qalyar]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:57 AM, lostboys said:

 

Ive never read a comic online but I do make sure that I have either a low grade - readers copy, a reprint/facsimile or a TPB for every graded book or series that I own.

 

I've never understood the argument that encapsulation is bad because it prevents you from reading the comics. It prevents you from reading that copy, sure.

I have a digital copy of one book in my collection (because it was primarily distributed that way; physical copies are rare), but for everything normal, I'm the same way. If it goes in a slab, I keep a reader or the TPB. I think the only exceptions are a couple of scarce promotional items, and it's not like I collected those for their gripping story anyway.

 

[Ryan.]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:03 AM, Lonely Metal said:

I will never read a comic on my phone or computer 

I'll never read a comic on your phone or computer either but I have read many on my phone and/or computer. It's not my preferred method of reading comics, as I prefer physical collected editions, but it is convenient.

[GACollectibles]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:57 PM, Ryan. said:

I'll never read a comic on your phone or computer either but I have read many on my phone and/or computer. It's not my preferred method of reading comics, as I prefer physical collected editions, but it is convenient.

Are you done reading them on my phone because I'd like it back.

[Ryan.]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:46 PM, GACollectibles said:

Are you done reading them on my phone because I'd like it back.

I'm still wading through all of the clown erotica on your phone before I get to the comics.