First appearance of Naomi? 1 1

[jdandns]

 

8 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

I mean, I will never understand the whole previews having crazy value thing...but then again, I am not a die hard for anyone other than Spidey. So I get that once you have most everything else, seeking out previews makes sense. To me they are more a cool additional piece that I would want to acquire cheaply though....not pay hundreds or even thousands for.

Really, that's it in a nutshell.

Luckily for me, I'm a "reference" guy. so I just stored all of the Marvel Previews books from the 17 years or so they've made them in two rows, flat in Diamond Previews boxes, no bags, let alone boards. I got them all free from my subscription service and never thought they'd be worth anything, but I liked the idea of having a record of Marvel Comics that were published month by month, and especially the wall posters which I collect from certain artists.

It's a good bet the fellow who paid me 2K+ for a raw Marvel Previews 95 already had plenty of high-grade UF #4's, but I didn't ask him, and I'm sure glad to still have all the rest of that series of pre-order catalogs. (I have most Amazing Heroes, Comics Interviews, and Comics Journals, too. I just liked reading about comics.)

Three cheers for dumb luck and living this long.

To each their own.

 

 

 

 

[BishopT]

6 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

It's been a while, but the only example I can think of is Spider-Man 2099.  Was the story in ASM #365 an original short story that served as a prelude to Spider-Man 2099 #1 or was it a first look at the first few pages of the issue?

It is the first three pages of #1.

[ExNihilo]

4 minutes ago, BishopT said:

It is the first three pages of #1.

I guess the question then is, does that sort of "preview" count as a 1st appearance?  I mean the market has already dictated that it does.  But the market also dictates that Naomi's 1st appearance is in Naomi #1 (I believe).  I don't particularly care either way, but would be great if the market was at least consistent.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

12 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I guess the question then is, does that sort of "preview" count as a 1st appearance?  I mean the market has already dictated that it does.  But the market also dictates that Naomi's 1st appearance is in Naomi #1 (I believe).  I don't particularly care either way, but would be great if the market was at least consistent.

The market doesn't dictate whether a preview is an appearance. It only dictates the cost of something.

[ExNihilo]

4 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

The market doesn't dictate whether a preview is an appearance. It only dictates the cost of something.

Okay, replace "market" with "CGC" then.  CGC labels say Naomi #1 is the first appearance of Naomi.  CGC labels also say Amazing Spider-Man #365 is the first appearance of Spider-Man 2099.

But I guess looking at the bigger picture, what do we, the collectors, believe qualifies as the first appearance.  (And I realize this discussion has been talked to death on these boards).  I lean towards the post issue "previews" counting as a first appearance.  But I also don't consider that to be true of previews in Magazines (for example if a character appeared in Wizard or an issues of Comic Shop News).  To me, that's cross format, and we wouldn't ignore Clone Wars #1 as the first appearance of Ahsoka despite the fact that she appeared in the movie a month earlier (a more extreme example, but an example of how formatting).

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 hour ago, ExNihilo said:

Okay, replace "market" with "CGC" then.  CGC labels say Naomi #1 is the first appearance of Naomi.  CGC labels also say Amazing Spider-Man #365 is the first appearance of Spider-Man 2099.

But I guess looking at the bigger picture, what do we, the collectors, believe qualifies as the first appearance.  (And I realize this discussion has been talked to death on these boards).  I lean towards the post issue "previews" counting as a first appearance.  But I also don't consider that to be true of previews in Magazines (for example if a character appeared in Wizard or an issues of Comic Shop News).  To me, that's cross format, and we wouldn't ignore Clone Wars #1 as the first appearance of Ahsoka despite the fact that she appeared in the movie a month earlier (a more extreme example, but an example of how formatting).

CGC is a grading company. I'll trust their opinions on the condition of a comic, because that's their professional focus. They're not the gatekeepers when it comes to ruling on the content in the book. Yes, they indicate that ASM 365 is the first appearance of Spider-man 2099. But there are similar previews in other books that they don't treat the same way. They're inconsistent. 

Traditionally, the hobby has accepted that "appearance" means when a character is in a story. A preview is an advertisement that contains the excerpt from a story intended to sell the book that the story is published in. 

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, ExNihilo said:

Okay, replace "market" with "CGC" then.  CGC labels say Naomi #1 is the first appearance of Naomi.  CGC labels also say Amazing Spider-Man #365 is the first appearance of Spider-Man 2099.

CGC is bad and inconsistent in that regard. Never, ever trust CGC's issue notes.

1 hour ago, ExNihilo said:

But I guess looking at the bigger picture, what do we, the collectors, believe qualifies as the first appearance.  (And I realize this discussion has been talked to death on these boards).  I lean towards the post issue "previews" counting as a first appearance.  But I also don't consider that to be true of previews in Magazines (for example if a character appeared in Wizard or an issues of Comic Shop News).  To me, that's cross format, and

The only "previews" that are actually first appearances are those that are called such, but are actually unique stories that lead into something (usually the regular series), like DCP26.

1 hour ago, ExNihilo said:

we wouldn't ignore Clone Wars #1 as the first comic book appearance of Ahsoka, the character from another medium, despite the fact that she appeared in the movie a month earlier (a more extreme example, but an example of how formatting).

Fixed.

[followtheleader]

Naomi 1 for me. 
Patrick

[HotKey]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:24 PM, Lazyboy said:

No, it doesn't. Any insufficiently_thoughtful_person can overpay for ads, but that doesn't change content or facts.

How many of those people need to buy one before that becomes the new "fact"?

The new money doesn't seem to care much about the old money's opinions of what is "real" and what isn't. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

6 hours ago, HotKey said:

How many of those people need to buy one before that becomes the new "fact"?

The new money doesn't seem to care much about the old money's opinions of what is "real" and what isn't. 

No amount of sales changes the facts. People are free to spend their money on ads if they want. It doesn't change that they're ads.

[William-James88]

3 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

No amount of sales changes the facts. People are free to spend their money on ads if they want. It doesn't change that they're ads.

People don't seem to care about facts. Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine and ASM 299 is the first appearance of Venom. They are full appearances. Those are facts. The market does not care. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

3 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

People don't seem to care about facts. Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine and ASM 299 is the first appearance of Venom. They are full appearances. Those are facts. The market does not care. 

"Full" is a matter of opinion. But they are appearances.

[William-James88]

19 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

"Full" is a matter of opinion. But they are appearances.

It's not opinion. It's fact. A full body shot with the name. But facts don't mater to people.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

9 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

It's not opinion. It's fact. A full body shot with the name. But facts don't mater to people.

It is most definitely a matter of opinion as to what constitutes a "full" appearance. There have been plenty of debates about this.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

11 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

It's not opinion. It's fact. A full body shot with the name. But facts don't mater to people.

The problem here is that you're using the same criteria for "appearance" as those who argue that ads or previews are "appearances"; i.e. you're conflating "depiction" with "appearance." A full body shot is a full *depiction*, but in comic collecting terminology, an "appearance" relates to a character's inclusion in a story. Wolverine's appearance on the last page of Hulk 180 is a teaser for the next issue. Is it an appearance? Yes. Is it a *full appearance*? I would say no, since he was not an important part of the story in that issue. Your *opinion* may differ.

[Lazyboy]

42 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

It's not opinion. It's fact. A full body shot with the name. But facts don't mater to people.

Do you know why it's broken down into brief and full first appearances? Because it has nothing to do with the percentage of the character's body that is depicted!

[Lazyboy]

7 hours ago, HotKey said:

How many of those people need to buy one before that becomes the new "fact"?

10 million.

[MetalPSI]

Speculators will speculate

Collectors will collect 

Personally, I'll never buy a book for an ad. That's a waste of money.

I'll buy a preview though

Darker Image 1 is the first appearance of The Maxx

The Maxxs first comic was The Maxx 1.

The first appearance was printed before the first comic, making it the first appearance. 

It wasn't an ad for the comic, it was a panel preview of the comic itself, along with 2 other characters 

An ad is an ad. It's not a preview or a 1st appearance. Was it the first time ever printed? Possibly. Is that worth anything? Sure, dumb people buy all sorts of dumb things 

Is it worth your integrity to only sell to people dumber than you are? Well, that's your prerogative 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Dr. Dank

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Dank said:

Speculators will speculate

Collectors will collect 

Personally, I'll never buy a book for an ad. That's a waste of money.

I'll buy a preview though

Darker Image 1 is the first appearance of The Maxx

The Maxxs first comic was The Maxx 1.

The first appearance was printed before the first comic, making it the first appearance. 

It wasn't an ad for the comic, it was a panel preview of the comic itself, along with 2 other characters 

An ad is an ad. It's not a preview or a 1st appearance. Was it the first time ever printed? Possibly. Is that worth anything? Sure, dumb people buy all sorts of dumb things 

Is it worth your integrity to only sell to people dumber than you are? Well, that's your prerogative 

I'm happy to sell books to people that want to buy them, but trying to convince people that an ad or preview is a desirable thing to own is a different story.

[MetalPSI]

32 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I'm happy to sell books to people that want to buy them, but trying to convince people that an ad or preview is a desirable thing to own is a different story.

Absolutely