Which comic(s) do you feel is the Killer Croc key? 1 1

[William-James88]

I'm tying to think of other dragged out first appearances that make up a bunch of issues. There's Kamilla Khan, Venom, The Batman who laughs. But I think Killer Croc takes the cake. He's got a few cameos of himself in a big coat not revealing who he is, even on a cover in that getup, and then he reveals his face in the comics and then on a cover. So there's lot's of key issues for Killer Croc, some more key than others. And I was wondering, which issue do you feel is the one to have for a Killer Croc fan? Could be 1 or 2, just wondering which you want in your collection.

[ADAMANTIUM]

bats 357 I think

and also tec 523 I think

[Terry JSA]

Batman #357

[Jesse-Lee]

Batman 357 is the one I think. I have 358, which is noted as his "first cover (face hidden)" but honestly it could be anyone - it's a dude in a trench coat. Cool cover though. 359 is definitely his first full cover. Then whatever is going on in the 'Tec run... But for me, I feel like I still need to pick up 357 and 359 and I'll be happy.

[William-James88]

1 hour ago, Jesse-Lee said:

Batman 357 is the one I think. I have 358, which is noted as his "first cover (face hidden)" but honestly it could be anyone - it's a dude in a trench coat. Cool cover though. 359 is definitely his first full cover. Then whatever is going on in the 'Tec run... But for me, I feel like I still need to pick up 357 and 359 and I'll be happy.

But isnt his face covered in 357 as well? And why would the Tec run be secondary if he appears first in Tec 523? 

359 is awesome though. Even though it's a later appearance, it's him appearing as we know him in such a bold fashion.

[Jesse-Lee]

Ok, so you got me curious to go back and dig into it, because I recently got the 358, and I was shopping for a 357 and 359 and kind of dismissing the 'Tec run. But like a lot of "first appearances," when you actually look at the content it gets a little muddy (no pun intended - cuz crocs hang out in mud or whatever...). Anyway, here's a breakdown:

Detective Comics 523 - Feb. 1983. CGC label notation states "1st appearance of Killer Croc in cameo." Here is the extent of his appearance in the issue:

 

Next up: Batman 357 - March 1983. CGC notation is "1st full appearance of Killer Croc and Jason Todd." Here's Croc in the issue (there are a couple of other panels where you can spot him in the crowd/background; I didn't include those):

 

Detective Comics 524 - March 1983. CGC label says: "Killer Croc appearance."

 

Batman 358 - April 1983. This is interesting, because so far, we've seen Croc as a trench-coated figure in Batman 357 (noted as his first full appearance), and we've gotten a brief look at his face in 'Tec 524 (simply noted as "Killer Croc appearance"). But check out the opening page of Batman 358:

I'll include a couple more panels from 358, but if I included every time he shows up like I did the other books, I might as well just paste the whole comic in here:

So, like most other first appearances across multiple issues, it doesn't seem really cut-and-dried, and it seems like 357 isn't the best issue to deem his full first appearance.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Jesse-Lee

[William-James88]

On 5/25/2021 at 1:54 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

So, like most other first appearances across multiple issues, it doesn't seem really cut-and-dried, and it seems like 357 isn't the best issue to deem his full first appearance.

Yeah, that's why I started this topic. I think there's a mistake in CGC/overstreet in terms of labelling that was never fixed and now with many fans simply owning slabbed keys, they don't know what's inside the comic anymore. 357 doesn't seem like any kind of Croc key (still a key for Jason Todd of course, hence the big bucks), it's a second cameo. Plus the artist seems to not have been clued in on what was going on since the shadowy figure looks human, with a normal nose and everything. That's why I bought those first two detectives instead, odd how CGC doesn't mention the face reveal either for Detective 524. At least googling croc's first appearance gives you the right book though (Detective 523). Your Batman 358 looks like the right book to call a first full appearance but don't know if that will ever be changed on the CGC slab.

[FineCollector]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:49 PM, William-James88 said:

And I was wondering, which issue do you feel is the one to have for a Killer Croc fan? Could be 1 or 2, just wondering which you want in your collection.

i'm going to be that guy and say, if someone is a Killer Croc fan, he would want all of them...

[valiantman]

There is no way I would say Batman #489 is a Killer Croc key, but when you combine Killer Croc on the cover with the first appearance of Bane (outside of his one-shot), the book seems like the most under-appreciated Batman book featuring Killer Croc from the past 30 years.

Edited June 1, 2021 by valiantman

[The Green Ghost]

I'm so glad you asked this, I always wonder the same thing. I asked this on a different board once and got less than helpful answers, pretty par the course for that site.

After 357, which issue of Tec is the one to get or at least more desired, 523 or 524 from a market perspective? You actually see his face multiple times in 524 so I would consider that his first over 357, but then again 523 is first "cameo." i don't care about Croccy enough to get 4 issues just for him, my goodness.

[500Club]

On 5/24/2021 at 11:54 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

Ok, so you got me curious to go back and dig into it, because I recently got the 358, and I was shopping for a 357 and 359 and kind of dismissing the 'Tec run. But like a lot of "first appearances," when you actually look at the content it gets a little muddy (no pun intended - cuz crocs hang out in mud or whatever...). Anyway, here's a breakdown:

Detective Comics 523 - Feb. 1983. CGC label notation states "1st appearance of Killer Croc in cameo." Here is the extent of his appearance in the issue:

 

 

 

Next up: Batman 357 - March 1983. CGC notation is "1st full appearance of Killer Croc and Jason Todd." Here's Croc in the issue (there are a couple of other panels where you can spot him in the crowd/background; I didn't include those):

 

 

 

 

Detective Comics 524 - March 1983. CGC label says: "Killer Croc appearance."

 

 

 

 

 

Batman 358 - April 1983. This is interesting, because so far, we've seen Croc as a trench-coated figure in Batman 357 (noted as his first full appearance), and we've gotten a brief look at his face in 'Tec 524 (simply noted as "Killer Croc appearance"). But check out the opening page of Batman 358:

 

I'll include a couple more panels from 358, but if I included every time he shows up like I did the other books, I might as well just paste the whole comic in here:

 

 

So, like most other first appearances across multiple issues, it doesn't seem really cut-and-dried, and it seems like 357 isn't the best issue to deem his full first appearance.

It’s a progression.  Murky as hell to define.  If you are a Croc fan, I think it’s a case of buying all of Bats 357/358 and Tec 523/524.

[divad]

 

Which comic(s) do you feel is the Killer Croc key?

Whichever one I have for sale at that particular moment. 

 

[William-James88]

8 hours ago, divad said:

 

Which comic(s) do you feel is the Killer Croc key?

Whichever one I have for sale at that particular moment. 

 

Which do you have for sale at this moment? Just curious

[Beige]

[William-James88]

13 hours ago, Beige said:

Yeah that's the slab with wrong message in the label that was never corrected. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Yeah that's the slab with wrong message in the label that was never corrected. 

what do you mean? It's the same as my label, except mine is the Canadian Price Variant...

[William-James88]

6 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

what do you mean? It's the same as my label, except mine is the Canadian Price Variant...

I know, the full appearance notation is wrong. There is no full appearance in that comic. This is a mistake in the overstreet guide and CGC just went with it. The full appearance happens in another book and it was never corrected. Have you ever read this issue?

Edited June 22, 2021 by William-James88

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, William-James88 said:

I know, the full appearance notation is wrong. There is no full appearance in that comic. That's in another book and it was never corrected. Have you ever read this issue?

No I haven't to be honest, I have read the threads on killer croc, but not Jason Todd....

[William-James88]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

No I haven't to be honest, I have read the threads on killer croc, but not Jason Todd....

No worries, someone in this thread laid out what we see of Croc in this book. It's a few posts up. I think the reason no one cares for a correction is because 357 is still a big key due to jason. Still, would be fun for the actual Croc keys to get some love. 

[The Green Ghost]

Which has the market decided is the book to own for his "first"? 'Tec 523, or 524? 524 seems like it actually goes for more, but I might be looking at it wrong since neither are hugely in demand.