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57 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, OtherEric said:

That's why I specified a successful adaptation.  Not really sure what the last really successful pulp character adaptation was... maybe the Disney Tarzan?  It's been a while, whatever it was.

Right but successful how?  I recall the director loved Burroughs, and set out to slavishly bring the original story to the screen, and got hundreds of millions to do whatever he wanted.  So Carter was a labor of love by a talented filmmaker.... and missed the mark by a long shot.  I’m sure he is still thinking: “but I did everything right!?”

the new Shadow described above reads exactly like the boneheaded update hollywood would green light, coming from a place of willing ignorance of the character and source material.  Could it actually work?

by the way, I never rally knew or cared much for the Shadow.  In the Heritage auction though, I saw that the second issue featured the first appearance of Lamont Cranston.  I was confused... how could he not be in the first issue? So I read on wiki that Cranston was just one of many real people’s identities that the Shadow used to conceal his own .  So my question to you guys who know this stuff, was this true only early on, and later Cranston became Shadow’s only secret identity, like Bruce Wayne, and the other identities were retconned away?

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12 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

Right but successful how?  I recall the director loved Burroughs, and set out to slavishly bring the original story to the screen, and got hundreds of millions to do whatever he wanted.  So Carter was a labor of love by a talented filmmaker.... and missed the mark by a long shot.  I’m sure he is still thinking: “but I did everything right!?”

the new Shadow described above reads exactly like the boneheaded update hollywood would green light, coming from a place of willing ignorance of the character and source material.  Could it actually work?

by the way, I never rally knew or cared much for the Shadow.  In the Heritage auction though, I saw that the second issue featured the first appearance of Lamont Cranston.  I was confused... how could he not be in the first issue? So I read on wiki that Cranston was just one of many real people’s identities that the Shadow used to conceal his own .  So my question to you guys who know this stuff, was this true only early on, and later Cranston became Shadow’s only secret identity, like Bruce Wayne, and the other identities were retconned away?

In the particular context of "will a successful project drive up pulp prices", I'm specifically referring to a commercial success.

The pulps had a somewhat different continuity than the radio show.  While some of the latter stories- particularly the ones written by Bruce Elliot- don't mention identities other than Cranston, the idea that he was a real person the Shadow borrowed the identity of was never actually removed.  On the radio, as far as I know Cranston was always his real ID. 

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3 hours ago, OtherEric said:

the idea that he was a real person the Shadow borrowed the identity of was never actually removed. 

Correct. Cranston is only one of the identities the Shadow uses though the main one and thankfully Cranston is conveniently out of town (most of the time) when the Shadow needs his ID. IIRC, in some of the early stories, the location of Cranston is in fact a concern to the Shadow but later on, the writer(s) used the convenience as a given so that Cranston as a separate entity dissipated into the background.

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4 hours ago, Aman619 said:

So Carter was a labor of love by a talented filmmaker.... and missed the mark by a long shot.  I’m sure he is still thinking: “but I did everything right!?”

I LOVED it, personally... I re-watch it at least twice a year. I, too, can't figure out what went wrong. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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56 minutes ago, Scrooge said:

Correct. Cranston is only one of the identities the Shadow uses though the main one and thankfully Cranston is conveniently out of town (most of the time) when the Shadow needs his ID. IIRC, in some of the early stories, the location of Cranston is in fact a concern to the Shadow but later on, the writer(s) used the convenience as a given so that Cranston as a separate entity dissipated into the background.

Eventually the Shadow's identity was revealed as Kent Allard, adventurer. Cranston was just a prop. Also Margo Lane was never in the pulps until later. They wanted him to be a man of mystery, not a crime-fighter with a girlfriend.

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1 hour ago, jimjum12 said:

I LOVED it, personally... I re-watch it at least twice a year. I, too, can't figure out what went wrong. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

Most of the analysis I've seen actually focuses on the ad campaign.  It seemed largely based on the idea that everybody knew who the heck John Carter was, and would be excited seeing a movie.  But these days most people don't know who John Carter was.

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I seem to recall that the decision was to remove the Warlord of Mars from the title for wider acceptance, thinking that the John Carter aware fans were a a given and other would be put off by the Mars angle.  I think there were recent film bombs about Mars just prior to its release.  But I’m too lazy to do a Google search.  

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3 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

I LOVED it, personally... I re-watch it at least twice a year. I, too, can't figure out what went wrong. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

The ERB company staff were at a small local show here in LA today hawking new Tarzan hardbacks. I stopped by to chat for a bit and mentioned I had never been a big fan of Tarzan but liked John Carter and asked what they thought went wrong with the movie. They indicated they thought Disney's attention was too diverted by the recent purchase of the Lucas Star Wars properties to give John Carter the attention it deserved. I'd agree with that as I thought the movie was well done and a sequel or two would have been fun. Missed opportunity.

No one mentions Doc Savage as a media property. I bet he could actually be adapted to a current time period with an interesting take - like Fast and Furious meets the Man of Bronze!

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On 5/22/2021 at 8:27 PM, Scrooge said:

From what I keep on hearing about the next attempt at reviving a pulp character: The Shadow by Patterson and Sitts, there is another miss on the horizon.

The book is slated for release on July 13. Here's the book's synopsis from the publisher:

In this explosive detective thriller, a 1930s vigilante finds himself in the late twenty-first-century where he teams up with a mysterious teenager, whose looming secrets may impact both of their futures.

Only two people know that 1930s society man Lamont Cranston has a secret identity as the Shadow, a crusader for justice. One is his greatest love, Margo Lane, and the other is fiercest enemy, Shiwan Khan. When Khan ambushes the couple, they must risk everything for the slimmest chance of survival . . . in the future.
     
A century and a half later, Lamont awakens in a world both unknown and disturbingly familiar. The first person he meets is Maddy Gomes, a teenager with her own mysterious secrets, including a knowledge of the legend of the Shadow.

Most disturbing, Khan's power continues to be felt over the city and its people. No one in this new world understands the dangers of stopping him better than Lamont Cranston. And only the Shadow knows that he’s the one person who might succeed before more innocent lives are lost.

A Shadow sci-fi young adult novel by a writer known more for quantity than quality is not something I'll be reading. Sure, Gibson cranked them out, and I admit, even as a teenager the repetition had me bailing on the Pyramid reprint series before they stopped, but updating the Shadow is a tricky proposition, as the character's iconic appearance is so tied to the original era. The only people that have worn fedoras in the last fifty years are nerds, and the Shadow with no cloak and fedora is just a name stuck on a mysterious crime fighter. The 1994 movie was a disappointment, but it least it kept the character in the 1930s. Max Alan Collins, who is pretty prolific himself, would have been a more obvious choice to write a Shadow book, but I guess he lacks the built in audience Patterson has (even if turns out all he's doing is slapping his name on the book with a co-author), and Hachette appears to want to tap into a younger market. 

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On 5/22/2021 at 9:16 PM, Joshua33 said:

Netflix Conan series, Red Sonja Movie... I happen to think Shadow would kill in a movie or series format with the right approach. Buck Rogers would have to be way over the top, but could work too. Pulp heroes are alive and well. 

With the right writers anything can work as a series. Put Tom Tykwer, writer and director of Babylon Berlin in charge, and I'd be hyped about a Shadow series. 

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7 hours ago, rjpb said:

but updating the Shadow is a tricky proposition, as the character's iconic appearance is so tied to the original era. 

I think it would work better as a TV series than a single big-budget movie.  But it definitely has to have a period and noirish feel.  If securing enough 1930s automobiles for the series is tricky, it could be moved forward a bit, but probably not past the late '50s.  The last Shadow pulp was 1949, and the last radio broadcast was at the end of 1954.

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21 hours ago, Sarg said:

$36,000 for Weird Tales #1? :whatthe:

Pulps are still cheaper than comics when considering age, import , availability and desirability, and while that's not peanuts, it still seems more reasonable than some recent comic prices. While the contents might not be that notable, WT was a seminal title of the pulp era, widely collected, and one of the few titles recognizable to non-pulp collectors and fans.

A question I have for collectors, is there any expected price difference between first and second state editions, which is scarcer, and which do people personally prefer appearance wise? I find something compellingly weird in the reversed oranges and blacks in the first state. 

 

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