Heritage's Anime And Things We Threw in Because We Couldn't Find Enough Anime Auction 0

[szav]

Apologies if there was a thread on this.  And maybe I'm wrong, maybe they put in a bunch of unrelated non-anime stuff to get people to look at it all vs. they weren't able to find enough anime, although I don't think they'd really have needed to do that.

https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Ns=Price|1&N=3185+793+794+791+1893+792+2088+4294941652&ic4=SortBy-071515

Of course it figures the only things I'm interested in, the Studio Ghibli items, seemed to go super high super fast...even the sort of bland Kiki's Delivery Service master background was up to 15k after a day.  Is it just me, or were some of these not listed as featured items till after the auction went live?  I don't think they were 2 or 3 days prior when it struck me as odd that they weren't.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/animation-art/kiki-s-delivery-service-kiki-production-cel-setup-with-key-master-background-studio-ghibli-1989-/a/7254-18178.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

I didn't really know what to expect with these since you don't see a ton of anime related art come in HA's history, and I haven't actively hunted for anything prior to a year or two ago.

I've heard that there were a lot of anime cels etc being peddled at shows during the 90s and 2000s....so as much as I like some of these I'm probably sitting this one out and going to see where they land and what get's flushed out later by these seemingly pretty high prices already.

Edited June 12, 2021 by szav

[Bronty]

I thought some of the items were interesting.   Didn’t bother me that there’s other stuff thrown in.   Looking forward to seeing where these end.  

[Bronty]

The Kiki is bland to look at for sure although it’s a memorable scene 

[szav]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

I thought some of the items were interesting.   Didn’t bother me that there’s other stuff thrown in.   Looking forward to seeing where these end.  

There are some nice looking pieces, although nothing I'm in love with.  I can think of dozens of more memorable scenes from the Studio Ghibli movies and countless anime series

  I like the Totoro waiting at the bus stop in the rain background.  My question on all these is the rather obvious one of how much of this is out there or will ever be available, given that there's little history on HA.  A few people have told me there used to be quite a bit floating around, but with regards to items from Studio Ghibli are these rarities that somehow snuck out that we wont see often or is there a lot more to come?

Price wise are they going to hit the same range as similar items from Disney or other popular movies?  It looks like they will be anyway.  I look forward to where they'll end to but am a bit fearful of it as well.

[GeneticNinja]

I don't think I've ever seen a Studio Ghibli movie yet. I know people were crazy for the Mondo posters for the movies back in the day when Mondo had good posters to sell. Quick search on Yahoo Japan auctions and Mandarake for Ghibli cels might help pricing.

https://www.jauce.com/search/Ghibli+cel?query=Ghibli+cel&auccat=&aucminprice=&aucmaxprice=&aucmin_bidorbuy_price=&aucmax_bidorbuy_price=&f=&fixed=&pstagefree=&thumb=&istatus=&select=02&n=100&link=

https://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemsListEn.html?te-uniquekey=17a0375057b

I'll go over Heritage's catalog this weekend. See what they found. Most of the good stuff that I've seen or heard of tends to be with collectors already. I've heard the stories too about all the good cels being available in the early 90s at conventions and dealers. Also that cels, sketches, and backgrounds were thrown away. But then you see cels with laser copy backgrounds. I don't think the average person had access to a machine and materials to make a laser copy of an original anime background. So some companies were making copy backgrounds so the cel could be sold or given away and displayed as complete.

But the cel and matching original background should make any scene far more valuable since that background tends to be one of a kind. And the cel isn't unless it's some kind of pan scene or static shot. Plus the cel is a copy anyway which is probably why people don't see them as valuable as original comic / illustration artwork or the cel sketches. But that's still debatable as I would love to get an original cel and background to many shows however I've yet to see them for sale or in a gallery. I haven't seen any GI Joe opening cels or backgrounds to this day. They were animated in Japan.

Edited June 13, 2021 by GeneticNinja

[szav]

23 hours ago, GeneticNinja said:

I don't think I've ever seen a Studio Ghibli movie yet.

I only recall noticing Spirited Away and Ponyo during their theatrical releases in the US.  Both received a lot of critical acclaim and did well from what I recall.  We recently watched those two, and My Neighbor Totoro with our young kids and they loved them all so I'd say they're still worth watching.  They're definitely slower paced with less flashy lights than current kids movies I'd say though...which depending on how you feel about it can be a good or a bad thing I  guess.

Interesting sites you linked, its kinda hard to tell with a lot of this what might have really been used in the movies or what's just a sanctioned reproduction of one sort or another.  It makes me a bit wary of buying anything...even on HA.

[Bronty]

12 hours ago, szav said:

I only recall noticing Spirited Away and Ponyo during their theatrical releases in the US.  Both received a lot of critical acclaim and did well from what I recall.  We recently watched those two, and My Neighbor Totoro with our young kids and they loved them all so I'd say they're still worth watching.  They're definitely slower paced with less flashy lights than current kids movies I'd say though...which depending on how you feel about it can be a good or a bad thing I  guess.

Interesting sites you linked, its kinda hard to tell with a lot of this what might have really been used in the movies or what's just a sanctioned reproduction of one sort or another.  It makes me a bit wary of buying anything...even on HA.

I watched a couple of them with my kids too, and really enjoyed them.   I'd recommend them to anyone.    Slower paced but in an excellent way from my POV anyways.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bronty

[Bronty]

13 hours ago, szav said:

 

Interesting sites you linked, its kinda hard to tell with a lot of this what might have really been used in the movies or what's just a sanctioned reproduction of one sort or another.  It makes me a bit wary of buying anything...even on HA.

I understand your concern.   I've posted here a few times about what I consider clearly fake manga art run through heritage.    I don't think they have the knowledge to really vet it.

Now, I have no reason to think these cels are anything but legit, but I hear you.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bronty

[Bronty]

To recap one past example, in 2010 a totoro poster sells on heritage.    https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/animation/my-neighbor-totoro-toho-1988-japanese-b2-2025-x-285-style-b-animated/a/510111-51260.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

In 2017, well that's convenient, the exact same scene (shucks how lucky) sells as original art (and now has offers up to $20k).   

https://movieposters.ha.com/itm/animation/my-neighbor-totoro-by-hayao-miyazaki-2007-autographed-original-watercolor-and-ink-artwork-95-x-1075-/a/7181-86466.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

To my eye, the palette is wrong, the linework is way too bold for the artist, and its incredibly convenient that he just happened to recreate the movie poster.     I think its more likely that someone used the movie poster as easy reference for a fake.     I also have a hard time believing an accomplished artist drew the branch Totoro is sitting on.   I think this is also supposed to be a night time scene not day time?  He's supposed to be playing a flute in the moonlight, not the sunlight (unless there's another scene?) 

 

I'm no expert; I could be wrong.

But to me, this piece doesn't add up.

compare to the following which all show a more delicate line:

Ghibli museum known authentic examples of his work here:   https://www.indiewire.com/2020/09/hayao-miyazaki-academy-exhibit-unveiled-storyboards-1234585608/

and Book cover   https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1041734004&ref=list&keyword=totoro&lang=en

watercolor   https://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemInfoEn.html?index=435522

I found one example with a bolder line - but look at the slow line speed and hte delicate turns of the line.   Unlike the bold swaths above.    Note also that it sold for $300,000 which makes you wonder why the heritage example sold for a few k.    https://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemInfoEn.html?index=570452

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bronty

[cstojano]

There is a Facebook thread about some of the Disney art being fake and the comment thread that follows hatched a conspiracy that much of this Disney work is fake.

It seemed to have support among the posters that the high end Mary Blair and Eyvind Earle art was fake. No clue if true or not. 

The Facebook page was of one of the artists, whose name escapes me (edit: Ward Kimball). 

The lot that sparked the comment on the artist's page: https://comics.ha.com/itm/animation-art/mickey-mouse-sketch-by-ward-kimball-walt-disney-c-1960-70s-/p/7255-52005.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Edited June 14, 2021 by cstojano

[RBerman]

12 minutes ago, cstojano said:

There is a Facebook thread about some of the Disney art being fake and the comment thread that follows hatched a conspiracy that much of this Disney work is fake.

It seemed to have support among the posters that the high end Mary Blair and Eyvind Earle art was fake. No clue if true or not. 

The Facebook page was of one of the artists, whose name escapes me (edit: Ward Kimball). 

The lot that sparked the comment on the artist's page: https://comics.ha.com/itm/animation-art/mickey-mouse-sketch-by-ward-kimball-walt-disney-c-1960-70s-/p/7255-52005.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Where is that thread on Facebook? Hard to judge without evidence. Certainly sketches are more easily faked than some art forms.

[cstojano]

9 minutes ago, RBerman said:

Where is that thread on Facebook? Hard to judge without evidence. Certainly sketches are more easily faked than some art forms.

It is on Ward Kimball's personal page. Do a search for his name, it is how I found it. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by cstojano

[cstojano]

Just now, cstojano said:

It is on Ward Kimball's personal page. Do a search, it is how I found it. 

I don't know who is running that page but here is one comment that stuck out. Like I said, I have no idea on Disney art so cannot judge. Nor do I know anyone's intentions. 

Hopefully someday there'll be a whistleblower to reveal the whole thing. Just look at all the "Eyvind Earle" concept paintings they've sold of the Dragon from Sleeping Beauty. Earle may have done a handful of paintings with the Dragon, not dozens of them. Besides the fact that it doesn't represent his painting style or palettes, if compared to the ones that we know are originals, the scenes are random too. Earle would have had a clear vision for the structure of the story; there is no record of him making lots of different paintings of the same scene with varying color palettes.

[RBerman]

10 minutes ago, cstojano said:

It is on Ward Kimball's personal page. Do a search, it is how I found it. 

Thanks. Here is the link for anyone who wants it.

https://www.facebook.com/realwardkimball/posts/165735225565738

[cstojano]

Sorry I didn't actually know you could link to a facebook page like that. Yes this is the link. Curious to hear other's takes on this. I have bought a lot of animation art form them and never had any issue or any suspicion the pieces were fake. But Disney art is another realm from what I typically buy. 

 

What said, this Mickey Mouse drawing is awful in every way. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by cstojano

[GeneticNinja]

19 hours ago, szav said:

I only recall noticing Spirited Away and Ponyo during their theatrical releases in the US.  Both received a lot of critical acclaim and did well from what I recall.  We recently watched those two, and My Neighbor Totoro with our young kids and they loved them all so I'd say they're still worth watching.  They're definitely slower paced with less flashy lights than current kids movies I'd say though...which depending on how you feel about it can be a good or a bad thing I  guess.

Interesting sites you linked, its kinda hard to tell with a lot of this what might have really been used in the movies or what's just a sanctioned reproduction of one sort or another.  It makes me a bit wary of buying anything...even on HA.

On Mandarake, I don't think people are spending up to 4,100,000 Yen on a reproduction Princess Mononoke cel. And that didn't have a background. Go through those sold listings though for research. I need to see these movies as the prices are new to me.

[GeneticNinja]

5 hours ago, cstojano said:

I don't know who is running that page but here is one comment that stuck out. Like I said, I have no idea on Disney art so cannot judge. Nor do I know anyone's intentions. 

Hopefully someday there'll be a whistleblower to reveal the whole thing. Just look at all the "Eyvind Earle" concept paintings they've sold of the Dragon from Sleeping Beauty. Earle may have done a handful of paintings with the Dragon, not dozens of them. Besides the fact that it doesn't represent his painting style or palettes, if compared to the ones that we know are originals, the scenes are random too. Earle would have had a clear vision for the structure of the story; there is no record of him making lots of different paintings of the same scene with varying color palettes.

With the Disney artwork, I believe I've seen some at Van Eaton Auctions. And I think Profiles in History had some too. Like the Ghibli stuff, I don't know much about older Disney artwork. But those concept paintings seem to be on auction a lot. So either they are priced too high, I can't remember the pricing, or buyers know something isn't right.

[cstojano]

3 minutes ago, GeneticNinja said:

With the Disney artwork, I believe I've seen some at Van Eaton Auctions. And I think Profiles in History had some too. Like the Ghibli stuff, I don't know much about older Disney artwork. But those concept paintings seem to be on auction a lot. So either they are priced too high, I can't remember the pricing, or buyers know something isn't right.

These concept art pieces are selling in the teens+, so nothing to sneeze at. 

[Werebear]

I'm interested in the Tatsunoko stuff and (sadly singular) Angel's Egg cel. They're high-profile enough to be noteworthy but not high-profile enough to be worth forging. I'd choose Mandarake over Heritage any day for Japanese art, as they can verify pieces earlier in the custody chain. Of course they aren't infallible either.  

[Kent Mansley]

I'll take a whack at some of the stuff that's come up in this thread. Apologies for the length. 

1. In general, cels are fairly safer to buy as they are not easy to reproduce or fake at home. Most folks don't have the needed equipment to fake something in the same way you can for a sketch(see the McFarlane thread Malvin started). Cel setups with the background can be really hard to find as there is only one background for a scene but many cels. So if you can get a cel with a background that actually matches the scene, that's a win. Oftentimes, sellers will just grab a photocopy of the background or the wrong painted background and put it with any old cel and say they were supposed to be together. For example, this cel below does not actually match the BG. At least Heritage is kind enough to acknowledge that. Most sellers don't.

 https://comics.ha.com/itm/animation-art/my-neighbor-totoro-mei-chibi-totoro-and-chu-totoro-production-cel-with-production-background-studio-ghibli-1988-/a/7254-18177.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

2. Ghibli art is incredibly rare. As GeneticNinja posted, Mandarake is usually where you can get the best stuff. Just be prepared to spend a pretty penny for it. Anything that has come out from Ghibli was either a gift or from someone at the studio as they have not officially sold anything. Don't trust anything on eBay. And Bronty has a good eye! 

3. As for the fake Eyvind Earle's and Mary Blairs, in most cases they are not fake paintings created by crooks although some of that exists. The reality is there were many artists at Disney that did development paintings for the films. Most folks probably couldn't tell the difference between a Eyvind Earle painting and Ralph Hulett painting, let alone know who Ralph was. Both were very talented painters but each subsumed their own style to fit into the films. In animation, the whole point is to have it look like it was all done by one person. A lot of art sold as done by Mary Blair is most likely done by a different Disney artist. I can tell a Mary Blair original from another artist credited as her pretty easily but that comes from studying her work for many years. 

4. Tons, and I mean tons, of art was taken from the Disney morgue in the 70's and 80's. So it is not surprising to see so much of it for sale as prices have risen.

5. There was a lot of anime cels sold in the 90's but the beauty of animation is lots of cels were created for our favorite shows. Unlike comic art where there is only one piece for that page, animation has 24 frames per second. Not every frame has a new drawing or cel, but that's still a lot. So don't lose hope if there is something you are looking for. You never know when something will pop up! =)

6. Keep an eye out for sericels being sold as originals. These are typically studio sanctioned reproductions. Almost every studio has done these including Ghibli. Usually though, there is a demarcation on the cel that it is a reproduction and also a number like a fine art print. I've seen some sellers on eBay try to pass these off as originals. They are not. 

Good luck to anyone who bids in the HA. There is some great stuff!