All Story Tarzan first appearance 2 2

[Robot Man]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:14 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Pulps seem to be on the verge of a huge resurgence in collecting and interest after decades of being on the periphery (please don't hate me for saying that but that's always been my experience).  As such, the new highly motivated collectors/speculators trying to buy before the surge are sorting out what are the top tier books for value, given content and scarcity.  

It seems that many have identified (for better or worse) that All Story October 1912 is the Action 1 of pulps.  As such, people are trying to nail down copies as fast as possible, hence the big showing for the low grade copy.  And, it's not like it's a common book.  

It would seem so in this current market and probably rightly so. Slabbing would be a game changer. A Gerber type book would also turn the pulp world on fire. There are probably more cover collectors than actual readers I would suspect.

The problem pulps have is the same with most other vintage collectibles. How many people know who Tarzan, Buck Rogers, the Shadow are or care? The younger crowd is mostly into the movies thusly, comic books are booming. But they want nothing to do with the Lone Ranger, Howdy Doody or Zorro. And virtually nobody wants Big Little Books anymore.

Time will tell. I have always been a comic collector first and foremost but will continue to as I always have, buy up cool pulps, Big Little Books and paperbacks when I run into them…

 

[Joshua33]

On 4/11/2022 at 6:16 AM, Bookery said:

The All Story makes Action #1 seem abundant by comparison.

How many do you think are out there compared to the 75 restored and unrestored Action 1s?

[Bookery]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:23 PM, Joshua33 said:

How many do you think are out there compared to the 75 restored and unrestored Action 1s?

Others have a better grasp on Action numbers than me... I believe I've heard estimates of 150-200 probable existing copies (including raw).  For many years it seemed the same 1-2 restored copies of All-Story kept coming up for auction, though several have now popped up in the last couple of years.  It's a bit harder to say with All-Story, because the average person would not recognize what it is, unlike the Action #1.  So there could be more sitting on bookshelves or boxed up in attics than we might imagine, mixed in with other pulps of the era.  But it's also 110 years old, and on fragile paper.  There may be fewer than two dozen copies out there... and even giving a lot of leeway for the unknown, I'd say it's almost certainly well below 50.

[rjpb]

There's an irony to All-Story 10/12 catching some heat at a time when popular interest in Tarzan as at what may be a historic low. I checked imdb and saw the 2016 Tarzan movie had respectable box office, though apparently not enough relative to budget to warrant a sequel, and I wonder how many actually remember it. He's not obscure like many pulp characters, but he's not nearly as culturally pervasive as he was for most of the 20th century. 

[Surfing Alien]

On 4/14/2022 at 9:29 PM, rjpb said:

There's an irony to All-Story 10/12 catching some heat at a time when popular interest in Tarzan as at what may be a historic low. I checked imdb and saw the 2016 Tarzan movie had respectable box office, though apparently not enough relative to budget to warrant a sequel, and I wonder how many actually remember it. He's not obscure like many pulp characters, but he's not nearly as culturally pervasive as he was for most of the 20th century. 

I'm convinced Tarzan is pretty saturated in American culture at least. Some chicks I knew in the '80's called me Tarzan because I tangentially "might" have looked a little bit like Chris Lambert at the time when I had more hair... even though the movie wasn't successful at the time.

40+k for a rag is an insane move forward in pricing for pulps from just a couple of years ago. Other insane moves in collectible pricing doesn't diminish what a radical move forward this is 

[rjpb]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:11 PM, Surfing Alien said:

I'm convinced Tarzan is pretty saturated in American culture at least. Some chicks I knew in the '80's called me Tarzan because I tangentially "might" have looked a little bit like Chris Lambert at the time when I had more hair... even though the movie wasn't successful at the time.

40+k for a rag is an insane move forward in pricing for pulps from just a couple of years ago. Other insane moves in collectible pricing doesn't diminish what a radical move forward this is 

He's by far the best known of characters who originated in the pulps. Conan being probably the second best. But I wonder how many are aware of Tarzan's pulp origins, as he's largely thought of as a film and television icon. That's the history of pulp heroes though, as Conan didn't become famous until the paperback collections, comic and then movie came out, the Shadow is thought of more as a radio character, Buck Rogers a comic strip hero, and Zorro as a TV and film character as well. The popularity of Marvel heroes as film characters may eclipse their comic book popularity, but everyone knows that's where they originated. 

[Sarg]

It's always dumbfounding to me to consider the ratio of print runs to surviving copies. 

Say, for example, the print run of Action #1 was 200,00-300,000. And the character became instantly famous, appearing in movies within a few years of publication date. Yet, despite this, only roughly 100-150 copies survived that print run. 2000 to 1 ratio. At least 199,800 copies were destroyed, most within the first few months of publication.

All-Story Tarzan would be a similar print run, but probably even fewer surviving copies. This is perhaps more surprising, since there was no "aftermarket" for comic books for decades, yet presumably some used book stores would carry pulps. 

[OtherEric]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:09 AM, Sarg said:

All-Story Tarzan would be a similar print run, but probably even fewer surviving copies. This is perhaps more surprising, since there was no "aftermarket" for comic books for decades, yet presumably some used book stores would carry pulps. 

I think there was really no aftermarket for pulps for a long time, either.  It's really the SF pulps that were heavily collected, and Amazing Stories didn't appear until 1926.

[asimovpulps]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:09 AM, Sarg said:

All-Story Tarzan would be a similar print run, but probably even fewer surviving copies

Confirming your estimates were pretty spot on - looks like ~180k print run for All Story in 1912 (source: https://www.pulpmags.org/contexts/essays/pulps-and-big-slicks.html) and most numbers I've seen for Action 1 are 200k so virtually the same. Was using this data for something else and figured I'd share!

They paper quality on these Pulps is atrocious, so it's always a surprise to me that any survived! 

[Xaltotun]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:09 PM, Sarg said:

It's always dumbfounding to me to consider the ratio of print runs to surviving copies. 

Say, for example, the print run of Action #1 was 200,00-300,000. And the character became instantly famous, appearing in movies within a few years of publication date. Yet, despite this, only roughly 100-150 copies survived that print run. 2000 to 1 ratio. At least 199,800 copies were destroyed, most within the first few months of publication.

All-Story Tarzan would be a similar print run, but probably even fewer surviving copies. This is perhaps more surprising, since there was no "aftermarket" for comic books for decades, yet presumably some used book stores would carry pulps. 

 

One element to factor in, I think, is that comics were aimed at very young kids, who would by nature be very careless about them and of course throw them away when getting older. The survival ratio of pulps would be higher. Just a hunch, no data to back this up.

[Joshua33]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:11 PM, Surfing Alien said:

I'm convinced Tarzan is pretty saturated in American culture at least. Some chicks I knew in the '80's called me Tarzan because I tangentially "might" have looked a little bit like Chris Lambert at the time when I had more hair... even though the movie wasn't successful at the time.

40+k for a rag is an insane move forward in pricing for pulps from just a couple of years ago. Other insane moves in collectible pricing doesn't diminish what a radical move forward this is 

My opinion is that Tarzan is a pretty one dimensional character. How many different ways can he save the jungle, or go on an adventure? There's source material, but pretty redundant if you ask me. I feel characters like Conan and Buck Rogers are much more rich in source material that is interesting and marketable. That's why I was surprised at the price for the low grade copy. It's not a character I'd bet on, or have an interest in collecting, but to each their own. 

[jimjum12]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:15 AM, Joshua33 said:

My opinion is that Tarzan is a pretty one dimensional character. How many different ways can he save the jungle, or go on an adventure? There's source material, but pretty redundant if you ask me. I feel characters like Conan and Buck Rogers are much more rich in source material that is interesting and marketable. That's why I was surprised at the price for the low grade copy. It's not a character I'd bet on, or have an interest in collecting, but to each their own. 

You should read some of the books ... there's a reason why they took the world by storm. I discovered ERB in my early teens and devoured them for the next several years. The Pellucidar and John Carter's were equally mesmerizing. GOD BLESS.... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited April 17, 2022 by jimjum12

[FoggyNelson]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:51 AM, jimjum12 said:

You should read some of the books ... there's a reason why they took the world by storm. I discovered ERB in my early teens and devoured them for the next several years. The Pellucidar and and John Carter's were equally mesmerizing. GOD BLESS.... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Good idea‼️‼️

[Joshua33]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:51 PM, jimjum12 said:

You should read some of the books ... there's a reason why they took the world by storm. I discovered ERB in my early teens and devoured them for the next several years. The Pellucidar and John Carter's were equally mesmerizing. GOD BLESS.... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Oh, but I have read some Tarzan... it's just not that interesting to me. Like I said, kinda redundant. The Backstreet Boys once took the world by storm, too. I don't find myself wanting to listen to their music. 

[Pulpvault]

According to an article back in the day in Life magazine, in 1962 with the Burroughs boom in paperbacks, one in every 30 paperbacks sold in the country was by Burroughs.  That's a lot of Tarzan books sold (just in that one year), beyond of course his appearances in pulps, hardcovers, comics, movies and radio.  I did a brief article on it a few years back that ran on Black Gate:

https://www.blackgate.com/2020/12/31/the-burroughs-boom/

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Pulpvault

[Bookery]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:15 AM, Joshua33 said:

My opinion is that Tarzan is a pretty one dimensional character. How many different ways can he save the jungle, or go on an adventure? There's source material, but pretty redundant if you ask me. I feel characters like Conan and Buck Rogers are much more rich in source material that is interesting and marketable. That's why I was surprised at the price for the low grade copy. It's not a character I'd bet on, or have an interest in collecting, but to each their own. 

The All-Story has a certain Action #1 quality about it however, and delivers in all of the collectible categories.  Unlike Under the Moons of Mars, Tarzan gets the cover on this one (and it's a classic cover, quite different from the usual cover at that time).  And very rare for All-Story, the entire novel is complete in one issue rather than serialized... this makes for a huge boon in valuation.  The Shadow doesn't appear on the cover of his first few issues at all.  And Tarzan, The Shadow, and Doc Savage are about as close to super-heroes as one gets in the pulps, which makes for crossover appeal to comic book collectors.  And then, of course, the rarity factor.  And despite all the current popularity of Marvel Universe movies... they have an awful lot of catching up to do to reach the number of Tarzan movie released.  It's hard now to imagine the once huge popularity of Tarzan... there's a reason the very first Marvel hero is a Tarzan clone... and the one pulp character they brought with them into their first comic book endeavor.

[Joshua33]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:27 PM, Bookery said:

The All-Story has a certain Action #1 quality about it however, and delivers in all of the collectible categories.  Unlike Under the Moons of Mars, Tarzan gets the cover on this one (and it's a classic cover, quite different from the usual cover at that time).  And very rare for All-Story, the entire novel is complete in one issue rather than serialized... this makes for a huge boon in valuation.  The Shadow doesn't appear on the cover of his first few issues at all.  And Tarzan, The Shadow, and Doc Savage are about as close to super-heroes as one gets in the pulps, which makes for crossover appeal to comic book collectors.  And then, of course, the rarity factor.  And despite all the current popularity of Marvel Universe movies... they have an awful lot of catching up to do to reach the number of Tarzan movie released.  It's hard now to imagine the once huge popularity of Tarzan... there's a reason the very first Marvel hero is a Tarzan clone... and the one pulp character they brought with them into their first comic book endeavor.

Wholeheartedly agree with your statement. My question is one of relevance. Will Tarzan be relevant again? I don't know. I can't see it happening. Similar to a once saturated market by Westerns. They WERE pop culture. Now you can throw a good one in here and there... even a couple of TV series, but the dominance has had its day. 

The cover of Tarzan is a valid point for the collector in all of us. We all know Strange Tales 110 would be a far more valuable book if it had The Master of the Mystic Arts on the cover. 

[OtherEric]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:47 PM, Joshua33 said:

 

The cover of Tarzan is a valid point for the collector in all of us. We all know Strange Tales 110 would be a far more valuable book if it had The Master of the Mystic Arts on the cover. 

I sometimes think part of the value of the August 1928 Amazing Stories is people think it’s Buck Rogers on the cover.

[Joshua33]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:59 PM, OtherEric said:

I sometimes think part of the value of the August 1928 Amazing Stories is people think it’s Buck Rogers on the cover.

Totally agree. Have had that conversation many times. I've seen people list it as "Great Buck Rogers Cover". Makes me cringe.

[Bookery]

On 4/18/2022 at 8:47 PM, Joshua33 said:

Wholeheartedly agree with your statement. My question is one of relevance. Will Tarzan be relevant again? I don't know. I can't see it happening.

Oh, I agree.  I don't think we'll see a resurgence in Tarzan movies (unless it's a revisionist anti-hero one) or a new popular series of licensed Tarzan novels (a la the John Gardner James Bond series).  Some characters seem infinitely malleable and update-able (Sherlock Holmes), and others are stuck in the past.  Then again... there are those that take on a special aura with time.  The Maltese Falcon was a contemporary detective movie/novel... for audiences then it was like watching an NCIS episode for us now.  But with time, the story becomes even more interesting precisely because of its period qualities.  Still, I think the All-Story itself will continue to be a big thing... as we've seen with other collectibles... after awhile an item becomes famous for being famous (is More Fun 52 valuable because millions of people around the world care about The Spectre?... no... it's a prized collectible simply because it always has been).